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BSA asked me a while back if my JOC 270 was still coppering up. I hadn't shot it lately but I took it out today, fired 15 rounds, brought it home and ran a patch of Hoppe's through it and let it sit a while, ran two dry patches though the bore and checked...still coppering.

So, I ran some Butch's Bore Shine through it, no dice. I don't mind a little copper but to let it just keep building and adhering to the lands is not good. I'm about over trying to keep it out as it's a no win situation.

JB Bore Cleaning Compound.

That sucks buddy and that is a damn nice rifle otherwise. I was hoping you'd shoot if a few hundred times and the fouling would subside. You may want to try fire lapping it and see if that helps..

Tried fire lapping with Tubb's bullets but I didn't want to go through all of them just used the last three. Even though it still coppers it's not hard to get out. I just wish it was like my M70 7x57. No problems with it to date and a sweetheart it is.



Maybe in time it will get better. After I get all the copper out I go over the bore with JB or KG2

Dear Kitch:

Have you tried using a 270 Win. chamber plug (Brownell's has them), filling the bore with Shooter's Choice and letting it sit upright in a corner for about three days?

That will dissolve the copper, and not harm the bore.

I use a zip-loc bag and a rubber band over the muzzle to keep the solvent from evaporating, and to cut down on the smell.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

Did you DynaBoreCoat the barrel like JB suggested in your previous thread?

If not, it seems like you keep doing the same thing over and over, ending up at the same place.

Is it a good idea to dynaborecoat over a rough fouling barrel? You'd think you would want to firelap it first so you are starting off on the right foot????

I can get the copper out with the stuff I have now. It's just that it comes back again and I know you'll always have some to a degree but I know the difference between a little and too much.

I have not used the DynaBoreCoat. I have used three of the five Tubb's bullets but they didn't seem to do much good. I was hesitant on getting them and firing them but decided I had little to loose. I will say the copper is not as bad as it was.

Dear Kitch:

How about some JB Bore Bright after you scrub it clean of copper?

About 40 passes should help.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

If it shoots well even when coppered, then no big deal. Both my pre 64s copper up fairly significantly. More so than any other of my rifles. May be the exception, but they still shoot well and therefore I don't get all that excited about it.

With a couple Douglas and a Bartlein barrels you can hardly see the copper until you patch. With the pre-64's after 20-or less-you can often see the bronze streaks.

I clean them when the season is over. Wipeout makes quick work of the copper. Takes a little more time than the other rifles, but I don't have to sit there and watch while it does its thing.

Again, if it shoots well it is doing well, and you are good to go. If it doesn't then there are others issues to be worry about.

Addition: All mine shoot more consistently after some copper has been laid down and I'm not all that anxious to remove it. If you have a shooter and it wants to keep shooting with copper, then let it tell you what it wants. After all it is a big part of the team.

I guess I never paid that much attention to this years ago. In fact, I know I didn't. I had a custom 270 with a Douglas Premium barrel and FM Supreme action and that rifle would give 3/4" groups. I never ran JB, KG12 or Bore Tech Eliminator through it. Maybe I need to lighten up and just shoot and enjoy.

I switched to Bore Tech Eliminator and Copper Eliminator. My pre 64's copper pretty good. Alot more than my classics.

Mine don't copper too much, but I clean them after every use. I use shooter's choice, but I think they re-named it. I'll have to see what my new bottle says. MC-7 "Shooters Choice". Been using it for years with good results.

Dyna Bore Coat and be done with it.

Anyone care to explain the process of applying dynaborecoat?

BSA, there are 50 threads (if not 100) explaining it. It's great stuff. You should look into it.

Like BSA mentioned earlier, will it do any good if the bore is rough?

I just found at least one old thread about it. The trouble with the instruction links mentioned is they no longer work.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/6154901/2

I know I should. My barrels are probably screaming "bore coat me"!!!! It has to be good stuff. However, I've only read bits and pieces of different threads regarding the stuff. I'll do some research and see what I can scrounge up.

OK, I decided to give it a try and ordered some. I've tried most everything else so, maybe this will do the trick.

I got the goodies today but before I started I cleaned it about as well as can be cleaned and then checked that no copper or anything else was in the bore with the bore scope and it was as clean as an unfired barrel.

I put the Dyna Coat on in accordance with the instructions and now it sits upside down awaiting cure and then next week if it ever gets over 40 I'll take it out to see how it goes.

kitch, please keep us informed. I want to see how that stuff works. It gets rave reviews around here and sounds like phenomenal stuff. If it works out good for you, I'll probably end up buying some of the stuff. Good luck!!!!

If it ever gets warmer and stops raining I'm heading back out with 15-20 rounds to check her out. I'll tell you this, I just got a Hawkeye bore scope with the 45 degree attachment and after looking at that bore I'm surprised it gets the groups that it does. Tool marks and some lands looked sharp on one side but rounded on the other. I compared that to my Sako 461 Vixen .222 and it was day and night. The Sako looked more like what videos I've seen of a Lilja barrel compared to the M70. I wish I could take a picture of the inside of both of them but the camera is another $1400!! Most disappointing but the jury's still out nevertheless till next range visit.

Kitch, Im not positive but I think your M 70 was a hammer forged barrel. Hammers bang the steel around a mandrel to impart the grooves and lands. very best winpoor

winpoor, those portuguese bastids might use a different process . I know they can't spell for chit...Who was that that had the rifle case with the wrong spelling on it? I think it was for one of these custom tributes coming from Portugal....

Thankfully, this is not one of them Portugal Winchesters. Cold as a frog's belly today so, no range today.

The JOC Model 70's were not from Portugal. The mis-spelling of Lewiston on the gun case that was available for those rifles was an embroidery mis-spelling.

Yep, they spelled it Lewision. I have one with that spelling as well.

Shooters Choice has been left behind. Try some Montana X-Treme. It works quite well, and it's safe to let soak in the bore.

I don't like the name, everything extreme this and extreme that these days, but the stuff works.

Yeah, I have a mis-spelled case, then bought another JOC I liked...pretty wood suckered me in again. Low and behold, another mis-spelled case. Was hoping to have one correct one to go with the other....lol.

Have to say I have several of the new FN Model 70's and they are all extremely nice, however for some reason the JOC's just feel special in hand.

Thanks mathman. I'll give that a try one of these day. S choice has been working great for me for years...

This is another one I won't sell. Great groups from the get-go. A super nice 7x57 that shoots better with old style(70's) 140 gr Nosler Partitions than anything else.



That's three holes in the top group.



I was going to take the 270 out today but got put off due to garage door problem...can't get the car out!

Nice shooting 7x57. Ingwe would be proud. So the garage door was smart enough to not open, but it sounds like the closet door swung wide open...

At least I was able to knock out about 100 of those big 530 gr bullets for the 45-70 yesterday. I did make it to the range today and took the 45-70 and the 270.

When I got back I cleaned as normal and then checked for copper. It was there but not as bad. I took the Hawkeye and looked inside the bore and most of the copper was from the muzzle onward for about 5-6 inches. Further up it was barely noticeable. It didn't take long to get it out but the jury's still out on the Dyna Coat. The instructions said something to the effect(they're not in front of me)about it getting better after the first time. We'll see.

Groups weren't any better than before and when I got home looking at them targets I recalled something I read decades ago in one of Jack O'Connor's books about a rifle he had that wasn't shooting satisfactory so he put the thickness of a piece of target just back of the for end to give a bit of pressure and she tightened up. So,I took the action out of the stock, took two pieces of a target since one piece wouldn't give any pressure with the barrel free floating, and torqued her back down. We'll see if that makes any difference next range visit. He did say that in most all cases a lightweight barrel, such as this FW, would benefit by a little pressure close to the fore end whereas a heavy barrel was better to free float. Who can argue with his experience...not me.

Kitch,

Shoot it and then shoot it some more and then shoot it some more. Try a hundred rounds or so and see we're the accuracy goes. The copper will still come out and the accuracy just may surprise you. Sometimes you have to lay enough copper down to have more consistency for each shot.

If following in O'Connors footsteps means all that much, then I doubt he obsessed over copper as much as you seem to. The man shot his rifles more than a little and didn't have the excellent solvents we have today. Think about it.

And then shoot it some more........ . I will say this, most of my fwt's shoot very well. 5 and 10 shot groups too, if so inclined. I don't buy into this ideology that kitch thinks about the fwt barrels throwing patterns. For one thing the fwt contour is pretty beefy as compared to a mountain rifle barrel or #0 contour. I've shot plenty of sub moa groups with my fwt's to know that the barrels are more than sufficient to shoot 1 moa 5 shot groups. These new fwt's are freefloated and bedded for a reason. Because they shoot very well that way. If groups are opening up very much, I'd be looking more at the bedding and sufficient freefloat before adding any pressure at the forend tip..

It's sort of strange I've read of a few others who claim their Tribute rifles give .5-1" groups. I've yet to get that. I'm no novice to the rifle. I've been shooting them since Uncle Sam placed an M14 in my hands back in 1966.

Maybe I am a bit anal about copper but I don't want it to build and build. Sooner or later accuracy will go to hell in a hurry. If getting the proverbial 1" group may require a little upward pressure at the fore end then that's what I'll do. It sure hasn't been a tack driver to date with that free floating barrel. Experimentation is in order, me thinks. If it gets worse I'll remove the paper and look elsewhere. Who knows, do you think it could really be me? I doubt it. I'm about as good as it gets.

Yesterday I took my 45-70 out to the range and got a four shot group that measure a hair over .5"...that's at 100 yards and iron sights using a 530 gr bullet and black powder. Tell me what's wrong with the 270.

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