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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,862
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,862 |
I agree with almost all of that but I would like to meet and shoot with the guy for whom the 1000 yard shot is a gimme. I want lessons!
Good Shooting!
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 14,076
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Love it when some of the long rangers use the word "chip shot" and 1000 yards in the same sentence. Clearly clueless. Clearly...
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,766
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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In zero wind it is a chipshot.....
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 14,076
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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When people start talking about zero wind my BS meter goes off as well.
I have had days out shooting where I had no wind hold at 600 yards and couldn't feel a breeze, shot at 1100 yards and was surprised as hell to see two moa of drift at that range vs nothing at 600.
If it is truly zero wind which I have never had the pleasure of shooting in then yes, dial and shoot you should hit what you are aiming at.
In a hunting situation however there are a lot of factors that go into that 1000 yard chip shot that make it anything but a chip shot. YMMV
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,256
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Posts: 2,256 |
rcamuglia, Just how do you know there's zero wind, ever, when hunting? Please explain.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,256
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Do you set wind flags up between you and the animal?
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,355
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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My shpeal is:
If we plug in the average wind speed for the USA, 7.4 mph, with the average long range competition rifle, a 308 with 155 palma bullet at 2900 fps, we get some errors:
50 yards = 0.35 moa = 0.175" -> you can hit a fly
100 yards =0.72 moa =0.72" -> you can hit a mouse
200 yards =1.42 moa =2.8" -> you can hit a bunny rabbit
400 yards =3.01 moa =12" -> you can hit a deer
800 yards =7.22 moa =58" -> you can hit a car
1600 yards =18.77 moa =300" -> you can hit a bus
How am I getting deer up to 510 yards?
By shooting so early in the morning, the Kestrel prop does not turn.
And there are the animals that do not move much after being shot at, and if you see the dust fly up, you have a spotter shot.... then the chances change.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. -Ernest Hemingway
The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything.-- Edward John Phelps
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Joined: Jun 2011
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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In zero wind it is a chipshot..... The post speaks for itself. In a no wind situation like heavywalker says, dial and hold on the target. Yes, there is coriolis depending on the azimuth of fire and spin drift which you will account for if you want to be precise. Have I encountered zero wind holds at 1000? Of course. If you never have, you haven't shot much. I've killed a couple of things at long range, 934, 800, 760, 840 (minimal wind hold of less than a quarter mil) etc with zero wind holds. How do I know there's no wind? It's called "reading the wind" and if you can't do it, you shouldn't be shooting animals at long range. Do you set wind flags up between you and the animal? I don't. Do you? I shoot a hell of a lot more steel at long range than animals with no wind flags set up. You may want to try it.
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Joined: Jun 2011
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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My shpeal is:
[i]If we plug in the average wind speed for the USA, 7.4 mph, with the average long range competition rifle, a 308 with 155 palma bullet at 2900 fps, we get some errors:
That set up is far from average. It basically is at the bottom of the barrel and sucks hind tit compared to what someone who knows even a little about ballistics would choose for a Long Range Rifle if they gave a rat's azz about increasing their hit percentage.
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,827
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,827 |
Clarkm,
Do the same 7.4 mph with a high BC high velocity bullet. Any you want to choose and let us know if it is better for long range shooting over the.308 155 @ 2,900 fps.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Joined: Jul 2009
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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In zero wind it is a chipshot..... The post speaks for itself. In a no wind situation like heavywalker says, dial and hold on the target. Yes, there is coriolis depending on the azimuth of fire and spin drift which you will account for if you want to be precise. Have I encountered zero wind holds at 1000? Of course. If you never have, you haven't shot much. I've killed a couple of things at long range, 934, 800, 760, 840 (minimal wind hold of less than a quarter mil) etc with zero wind holds. How do I know there's no wind? It's called "reading the wind" and if you can't do it, you shouldn't be shooting animals at long range. Do you set wind flags up between you and the animal? I don't. Do you? I shoot a hell of a lot more steel at long range than animals with no wind flags set up. You may want to try it. I've had minimal wind holds but zero wind is a first for me I have killed game animals up to 1031 yards and had very little wind but it was still there. Living and doing most of my shooting/hunting on the coast makes for very few calm days and none that I have had with zero wind.
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 47,948
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
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Yes slobs are slobs, I shot an elk this weekend at a moderate range of 530 yards. I was shooting a 280AI. My shot poked a hole through the left shoulder and exited out the neck on the opposite side as the elk was quartering away at the shot. The elk started to side hill and and expired about 50 yards from where he stood at the shot. I talked to some other hunters later in the day who didn't see the elk until I shot, one proceeded to tell me he was at 600 yards away and had the elk in his scope as it was side hilling free hand, said he had a good shot and was about to drop it just before it went down...
The next day out of that same bunch of morons a guy, who is apparently the leader of the bunch said he missed an elk the night before at 730 yards. He said he shot over its back, and had held just a little too high. Then he told us he took the shot because he knew his bullet would go that far...
So yes slobs will be slobs, long range, short range, or just life in general, cased closed. So I'm not sure why people feel the need to attack people who have taken game at long range when it isn't about long range, it is about being a slob. Excellent post. I agree!!
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
You guys that are shooting at great distance, how do you read and compensate for mirage...the "boil".?I hear a lot about wind but no one ever mentions mirage.
I would think it would be a factor, even on days when the wind isn't there?
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 794
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 794 |
You guys that are shooting at great distance, how do you read and compensate for mirage...the "boil".?I hear a lot about wind but no one ever mentions mirage.
I would think it would be a factor, even on days when the wind isn't there? BobinNH, there are plenty of guys that shoots way further than I do, and they might be able to shed more light on this, but mirage can also help with judging wind. If you use your side focus and turn it back and forward to focus on specific distance you can actually focus on the mirage itself and it will indicate the direction in which the air moves at that distance. I do however prefer to shoot early mornings and late afternoons, as it is just more pleasant and wind tends to be less. Pieter
Last edited by m77; 11/05/14.
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 45,993
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 45,993 |
Serious question on getting an accurate range on a deer in the field at 1000 yards. What percentage of the time is this a big enough problem to make the chip shot not a chip shot? Looks like an error of as little as 10 yards could cause a miss.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 629
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Posts: 629 |
Well, smoke, if anybody tells you they are using a Leupold, Nikon, Zeiss, etc. rangefinders out to 1000 yards and getting accurate readings they are full of bull. Takes a lot of power from a LRF to read a soft target at that distance or the deer are wearing reflective targets. At a minimun a 2000 yard LRF would be needed, which none of the above noted LRF have that kind of power.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 563
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 563 |
Not to mention brush, trees etc. I passed up a shot between 370 and 390 yds because I would have to squueeze the bullet thru an opening in tree tops - shooting across two draws. Range was variable because I couldn't get a range on the deer - only on a tree crown above it (390) and another crown upslope and closer. In open conditions I will take that shot; but those weren't open conditions. And the deer would have had to do the Heisman pose for an effective shot. .
With targets there is no consequence of missing except perhaps an embarrasing silence. On game, we are not just trying for a hit, we are trying for a KILL SHOT. Anything less is immoral.
Back to the sidelines . .
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 45,993
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 45,993 |
Well, smoke, if anybody tells you they are using a Leupold, Nikon, Zeiss, etc. rangefinders out to 1000 yards and getting accurate readings they are full of bull. Well, that wasn't my question, I should've said, assuming you have the right set-up for that distance. Which brings up another question and that is, which rangefinders would you trust for that distance? And to be clear, I'm not contemplating or gearing up for shots on game at that distance, those would be a driver and a nine-iron for me. It's more a question of curiosity.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,879
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,879 |
Well I have gotten accurate readings up to 1035 yards on antelope with a Swarovski range finder. The trajectory was perfect.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 45,993
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 45,993 |
Thanks. Was that a one-time thing or can you do that with the swaro pretty consistently?
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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