Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters JB: 40 gr. Vmax or NBTs

Sorry, meant for the 204

Oh....yeah its a sucks factory tube... but it do so love the 40s...



I have seen complaints from elsewhere about factory tubes not liking the 40s..

I think they fugged up and twisted light, like a .22-250 so they could easily convince the great unwashed that they will get those scalding velocities ( with light bullets) and handicapped themselves by restricting the flight of the heavies. I dunno...but I DO have a factory .22-250 thats about to go down the road...

I've thought about a 204 many a time, but never happened. If I ever went on a prairie dog shoot or did that with any regularity, I'd own one.

Then again, I might just tote a 222 Remington and 223AI for a prairie dog shoot.

The AI would be great on PDs...

Using Nosler's numbers for 40 grainers:
204 = .239 BC
223 = .221 BC

Starting both at 3800 amounts to about 3 inches flatter and 3 inches less drift, at 500 yards. Not much to write home about there.

If Hornady's 204 40 grain VMax actually has a .275, then you get a noticeable difference at longer rangers. From my limited experience around 204s, I would agree with Steelhead--the 12 twist has some problems stabilizing the 40 VMax at times. But it is the only bullet worth throwing over a 223.

For wind, the 75 VMax trumps them all by a minimum of 3 inches @ 500. When loaded to equal pressures, it is about a 5 inch advantage. But who wants to shoot 75s at prairie dogs???

Good info DD, and again about what I expected. Wont be shooting that far usually, so I should be golden if I elect to go that route.

The 40 grain Vmax failed to stabilize in one 204 I worked with. Well, I shouldn't really say that. It may have been stabilized, but didn't shoot for crap. In another 204 with 22" barrel, I couldn't get anywhere near 3800 fps. In fact the 204 has been pretty disappointing when the chronograph was pulled out, IME.

The 75 Amax is brought out when p-dogs over 500 yards are on the menu.

What I've noticed over the years is that 300-350 is about as far as any prairie dog shooters hit more than they miss in typical conditions. I've known some that claim to, but I've also never seen them do it when we actually started counting hits versus misses. (I suspect most people unconsciously give hits twice the points as misses, and forget a lot of misses, especially when they hit the follow-up shot.)

If there's no or very little wind it's sure possible to do better than 50% (often much better) at longer ranges. I once went something like 9 out of 12 on some PD's between 550 and 600 on one of those rare afternoons where there wasn't almost no wind. But in a typical high-plains "breeze" it doesn't work that way, and I've shot with all sorts of very fine rifle shots, including national high-power champions, world-record-setting benchrest shooters, and top military snipers.

Part of this is sheer accuracy. PD's and gophers are small targets, and even a rifle that consistently groups 5 shots into 1/2" at 100 yards isn't going to do better than about 2" at 350. (Note the "consistently." That means every group no larger than 1/2,") Two inches is about the width of a good-sized prairie dog, and wider than an average gopher.

That's why I mostly use rifles that do their best work at realistic ranges. I usually start off with a .17 rimfire, either a Mach 2 on gophers or an HMR on PD's, just to keep the nose level down, but when everything in range is either hit or in their holes, usually switch to a .17 centerfire. The .17 Hornet is great on gophers, but the .17 Fireball is better on PD's. Either shoots flat enough that you can hold right on close to the limit of typical "hittable" ranges, whether around 200 with gophers or 300 with PD's. (And yeah, you can definitely watch the bullet through the scope.)

The smaller .224 centerfires also work well with 40-grain plastic-tips at 3000-3500 fps. I often use them as well, whether the .22 Hornet, .221 Fireball or .222 Remington. But none shoot at flat as the .17's, so either a ballistic reticle or dialing is necessary beyond about 200, no matter which .224 you use. But with the .17 Fireball you can hold dead on out to about 275, and on the top edge at 300, which makes hitting so much easier, because as I mentioned earlier, it's often hard to get a really accurate laser reading on a tiny rodent on flat ground.

When most shots typically come at 250+ the .204 comes out. I've found it more effective than the .223, for exactly the same reason: It shoots enough flatter beyond 250 that you don't have to know the range as exactly.

While I've killed some PD's at 500-600 with the .204, it's really at its best out to around 400-450. Beyond that I bring out whatever really long-range rifle I decided on for that trip, and I don't mean a .223 with 68-75's, or even a .22-250, .220 Swiftm .223 WSSM or whatever. Instead it's something that will really do the job, at minimum a .243 and often something bigger.

For a few years I often used a 6.5-06 with 140-grain Berger VLD's at 2950, partly because I was experimenting with it as my longer-range big game rifle. I doubt the VLD's expanded much if at all, but the PD's died anyway. It took quite a few out to around 750, but my favorite hit was somewhat shorter.

I was shooting with several other guys, all of us using "normal" PD rifles from .17 Fireball to .22-250, and per usual after a couple of hours most PD's within 400 yards were underground. But there were some up beyond 400, so I got out the 6.5-06, ranged a big mound with a dog on top that none of the other guys had even bothered to shoot at, clicked the elevation knob and held for what I guessed was a 7-8 mph wind. The other guys knew from the louder bang I was using a much bigger rifle, and most saw the dog flip into the air.

Unless there's absolutely no wind, there's no sense dicking around with little rifles at those sorts of ranges, because a bullet with a BC of over .600 makes things far easier.

Thats been my experience exactly. My shot to kill ratio with the .223 past 300 yards goes down dramatically, is improved a tad with a tighter twist and 68 gr match bullets.But a 500 yard hit is a rare one....thats when we used to haul out the heavy .300s which did well out too 650 or so....but were laborious to shoot after about four boxes...

DakotaDeer,

The 40-grain .204 V-Max has a listed BC of .275, and in my shooting the trajectory matches that. Which is exactly why that's my favorite long-range .204 bullet in any sort of wind. That makes a noticeable difference, believe me.

The 32's work fine when the wind isn't much.

Billy,

All but one of my .204's (and there have been several) have had at least 24" barrels. In all the 24's I've been able to get right around 3800 with 40-grain bullets, and in all my rifles they've shot very well, especially the 40-grain V-Max.

Right now my .204 is a 700 with a take-off stainless barrel I bought from a gunsmith for $75. It will do right around 1/2" for five shots at 100 with several loads using bullets from 26 to 40 grains. The 40-grain load I use most is 27.0 grains of TAC, which has shot well in every one of my .204's.

Shameless plug.


https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...boxes_250_count_22_caliber_4#Post9314302



P

If I could name a single item which has really upped my p-dog count, it is not a new cartridge, or a new bullet, or even the laser rangefinder. It is the suppressor. Keeps dogs up longer, is more pleasant for the shooter. A very handy tool. Well worth the money and time.

If someone was to ask my opinion on buying a new rifle for p-dogs, I would suggest spending the money on a suppressor for a rifle they currently owned.

What is the 204 bullet of choice for coyotes? Something that will penetrate a shoulder or a wolfs ribs. I was minding my own business yesterday and somehow ended up buying an LVSF in an Edge McMillan. I have played lots with the 22s but never the 204.

The 40 V-Max up to it or is the B Tip a better mousetrap? The rifle is coming with some 39 Blitzkings but I suspect those are more kablooey than penetration!

Billy,

Yeah, I've been thinking about a suppressor for that very reason. have used them in Texas and Africa and they make a huge difference.

the BT's are tuffer.... and they don't leave anything on the table compared to the Bk's and Vmax's on littler critters.

Yeah, for an all-around .204 bullet the 40 BT is hard to beat.

Have any of you run the 17 Rem versus the 204 at the longer ranges? Why not the 17, as it shoots as flat/flatter, same drift, and with less recoil yet.

Kindler Gold 30 grain = .290 BC @ 3800
Hornady VMax 25 grain = .230 BC @ 4000

Either load should outrun a 204.

For saving furs on coyotes I had my best luck with 35 grain bergers followed by 39 grain sierras. The sierras sometimes made a mess but the bergers are pretty consistent go in and don't come out with jello on the inside

Edited to add I never got to play with the 40 grain noslers but they would sure be worth a try

If I had to run a 17, it would be a 17-222 Mag....but I don't think its twisted for 30's.

204 cases are great for 17-222 Mags....