Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Give advice on two rifle battery

Recoil is a VERY subjective thing. Some whine and cry about the recoil of a 270 win.

The 300 WM is one of my favorite cartridges and currently have a Win 70 Winlight. All up including ammo it comes in about 7.5 lbs or so. Yes, it has some kick but NOT extreme to me. (for hunting not long bench sessions)

The WORST kicking rifle I've EVER had was a Ruger 77 tang model in 338 WM. I didn't have it long and have NEVER missed it. FIT and recoil pad are of utmost importance.

Sounds to me like you don't have a problem with 300 recoil. Listen to yourself.

The 6.5 Creedmoor is a fine cartridge, and if you go that route your 7mm magnum or .30-06 or .300 (or whatever the "big" rifle turns out to be) will get much less use than you planned. Instead the 6.5 Creedmoor will turn into your all-around rifle, and the other into a specialized rifle.

Exactly how much BIG game hunting are you planning to do?

How much BIG game hunting am I planning to do? That actually is very hard for me to answer in less than a page. Suffice it to say, it's complicated.

I guess what I WOULD say is that I do recognize the needs vs wants issue. A 300 is probably not a need, though Nilgai, Eland cow, Elk and maybe Bison cow can realistically be on the menu in the next year or two (not all, but one or two of these).

That still does not make it a need, but again, it's complicated.

I do see the 6.5 creedmore as being uncomfortably close to the 300, which was one reason for this original string in the first place. So maybe a little explanation of my mindset would help, I'll try and be brief by witholding too much explanation or reasoning behind my thoughts.

But basically, the 300 becomes my 'do anything anywhere' rifle. It is both somewhat practical and fantastic, considering my tax bracket. But it's fun to dream, and I will get to stretch it's legs at the range.

However, recognizing it's higher recoil, and that it's slight barrel will heat up rather quickly, shortening my practice time at the range, upon advice of others, I decided to trade my 270 (too close to a 300, does not fit me well, light barrel etc.) for a heavier barreled, lighter powered cartridge to use at the range. Here a 10 pound rifle is not a hinderance, and with a target weight barrel, it will cool more quickly, be stiffer, less recoil than 300 for all day shooting etc. So this is to be more of a training and range gun. Kind of (but not really) in the way 22's have served as cheaper trainers in the past, but one for punching steel out to 1200 yards (hopefully!).

Hence, kind of starting with a 223 at the bottom and a 260 remingtion at the top. The goal is long range target shootability to help translate skills to shooting the 300, which I will do until it overheats or I do.

So in summary...think of the 300 (or 7mm, or whatever) in terms of the one gun for all of North America...everything. Has to be carried, so relatively light, etc.

And then think of the lighter gun as more of a companion trainer/target rifle to be used in classes and at the range when I have tired of shooting the 300 etc.

I know, clear as mud, right?

Light 308 for hunting. Heavy 308 for practice.

I think you're misjudging the Creedmoor. With a touch less powder capacity than the 260Rem, I think it fit's your goal very well.

your two rifle battery is a .30-06 ad a .243

To the OP,

You've received good advice from several different perspectives here, and seemed to like the idea of a .300 and a .243.
The fact that Wby's ,243 barrels are twisted slower than you like should not be an issue. Barrels are relatively inexpensive, and easily changed.

My combo for years was the .243 and the .300W, with the .300 being a rebarrel of an old m700.

Last winter brought me an old model 70 in .300 h&h, custom stocked in a McMillan, that I am coming to really appreciate for it's superb handling and easy shooting charm...

I were you, I wouldn't get too locked in on any one type of rifle for my pair til I had one in hand to shoot for a while.
In short, experiment...

Also, the thought of a heavy barrel for your "practice" makes little sense to me.
To me, serious practice means deliberate low volume shooting whist keeping track of conditions and variables. When practicing on a range i "book" my shots into a range book.
But, when practice turns serious, I wander in search of vermin, to shoot from field conditions and unknown range. A light rifle is better in this regard...

catorres,

I have used the .300 Winchester Magnum considerably in both North America and Africa for a wide variety of game, including such supposedly super-tough animals as trophy elk and blue wildebeest. It's always worked very well, and the recoil doesn't bother me, even with bullets in the 200-grain class. The .300 with heavier does have certain advantages over smaller cartridges, but it certainly isn't a necessity for, say, trophy elk, as some people claim.

On the other hand, my wife and I have used the .270 on all the animals you just listed as BIG game possibles except cow eland, and they all died promptly. And I wouldn't hesitate to use the .270 (.or .308 Winchester, or any similar cartridge) on cow eland.

Unless you actually plan to hunt brown bear, a bull wood bison in the Northwest Territories, or maybe a trophy Alaska-Yukon moose, the .300 certainly isn't even close to a necessity. Which is why I said that if you buy a rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor (or .270 or .308 Winchester, or any other similar round) you won't be needing/using the .300 very much.

It's great to dream of going after really big game, but unless you're actually going to do it soon, buying a big rifle and using it as your all-around rifle may or may not work out. One of the worst flinchers I've ever guided was a young man who intended to be an Alaskan guide, so bought a .338 Winchester Magnum, intending to use it as his only rifle for a year or so before he headed north to find his dream. I ended up as his guide on a pronghorn hunt in Montana, and by the end of the hunt he was using my .220 Swift, because that's how low we had to go to get rid of his flinch.

You said you're used to the .375 H&H, but I have also been on African safaris with hunters who started out shooting their .300, .338 or .375 magnum fine. But after several days of shooting it at EVERYTHING they started to flinch. Luckily, most of them also had a lighter rifle along, and switched--and their percentage of clean kills went up, usually to 100%. Which of course means the magnum wasn't a necessity in the first place.

I'm not saying you can't handle a .300 Winchester. I am saying there's no reason to use a .300 for everything, and there are disadvantages.

catorres

Read this^^^^^^^^^^ then re-read it..., I don't think you find a better answer to your question.

This...

In all the years that I paired the .243 and the .300W, it was the .243 that went just about everywhere and did just about everything...

Same with me johnw,except my "big gun" is a 30-06

I can shoot 40-50 rounds of 300 RUM off the bench in a t-shirt and it doesn't bother me a bit. BTDT. And I still would not want to have a 300 WM as my primary hunting rifle. It just doesn't make sense, and isn't needed. I use a 7mm-08 or 308 more than anything else. 243s as well. And I own damm near everything there is including 300WM, 30-06s, 7mmRM, 35 Whelen, etc., etc.

FWIW, I prefer the 7mmRM over the 300WM, and basically 7mms over .308s in general.

Having only 2 rifles would be rough.........

I advised a nephew to go with the kimber 84m in .223 and .308...

He got the .308 and just uses it for about everything...

I think you should switch it to a 3 rifle battery

.223 and .308 or 30-06 in the same model.

Two 6.5 Creed's would not be a bad choice.

A sporter, and a pig.

Following the light/heavy idea, my two 30-06's.

Wow, lots of experience and advice here. Honestly, not really sure how to address it all or incorporate it. As I mentioned before, there are lots of details about my motivations that I am leaving out so as not to bore everyone. Wish the lot of you could come over and we could just chat it out over a kegger. Probably still take a few hours to sort it all!

So I am reconsidering based on what I am reading and at the moment, the permutations are endless.

But a couple points. First, the advice about not needing a 7 or 300 mag is well taken, I concur, for sure. Much of where I am going is about 'want'. Honestly, if I were to try and predict realistic and conservative need, anything off the shelf will work. Going further, I could probably just use my son's rifle and not even have one of my own. So everyone is correct, I don't need a 7mag, 300 mag, 3006, etc. Any one will work, as well as almost any other caliber at my local sporting goods store. With good bullets, and pie pan accuracy at range, the hunting can get done.

But I am playing as much as needing. So what I am wanting is a long range hammer (for fun at the range)that is also useful for hunting (low weight etc.), and that I can enjoy knowing it is a great and capable 'all around' cartridge, even if my hunting reality never reaches 'all around'. I like shooting big guns, my 375 was a hoot to shoot. The challenge and feeling of putting a big powerful bullet precisely on target at distance is fun. I shot rams with it in west Texas, not needed, obviously, but just fun. I guess what I am getting at in as short a way as possible is admitting that my motivations are not entirely logical or purely practical, I know that going in.

But I do recognize that 30 pounds of recoil gets tiring and light barrels take a long time to cool down in Texas summer heat, so I decided on something also more of a range gun, that would be lighter in recoil and good for shooting all day long at 1000 yards or more.

With that little bit of additional information, please gut check me here.

Part of my like of the 300 is that it seems incredibly versatile. I handload pretty much exclusively (cost reasons and flexibility). Looking at my load books, I can pretty easily load it down to fairly light 3006 levels. I do this with my son's 270, and it shoots very accurately with the light loads. I did this with my 375 as well.

So, not rhetorically, why would I get a 3006 or 308? If I want it to recoil lightly, I'll put 2 scoops of raisins in instead of 3. And if I want more horsepower, well, I can fill it up and run it as fast as need be. What am I missing? That is the reason I have not considered buying a 308 as a companion, though maybe I should. It just seems if I want less recoil, I'll just use reduced loads instead.

Second thought, putting aside what I mentioned above, and clarifying that the second rifle is a long range play/practice gun, maybe a 308 DOES make sense. I could use the same bullets, there are lots of rifles available. Etc. The problem that I stick on is that there are other lighter recoiling loads that do better at 1k (260 rem, 6.5 creedmore, 243 maybe?)

Lastly, if I were to abandon the 300 as too big and get something smaller, many have mentioned the 3006. But it seems maybe the 7mag would be better to fill both the hunting and long range play need...sameish level of recoil, but flatter shooting and great BC's on lighter weight bullets. 280 AI would be good, but I want a factory rifle, not a custom.

Well, if I sound conflicted, you are right. So much good advice to consider that is, fortunately, making me really think through what I am doing. That will take me a few days, there is a lot to consider and I like to take my time and work through things. In addition, there are a lot of details and background that are just too tedious to post here, so that makes it complicated, but thank you all for sharing your opinions and experiences. They are definitely thought provoking and helpful!

IF I was to do it again and wanted 'hunting' rifles for North america. It would be, 223/5.56, 270 and 338.
I know that is one too many.
But you can't go wrong with 243 and 7mm or 300WM

Yeah, this is very close to what I had originally envisioned.

The lighter barreled rifle, for me, would be what I would carry and hunt with, but would also be used as much as possible at the range for shooting long range (and for taking classes). It's strength would be it's lighter weight, and flexible horsepower. It's weakness would be that the light weight barrel would heat quickly in Texas and the recoil on full house loads would limit productive range/class time (though the last could be overcome easily with handloads)

The heavy barreled rifle would be (in some ways) like a 22... primary purpose is an easy day of long range shooting at the range, good for learning the basics of long range shooting in classes, cheaper shooting, faster cooling, and having a second rifle to shoot while the 'primary' cools down (which is hard when it's 100 degrees outside!). This rifle would probably get more volume shooting due to it's faster cooling, if not also the lower recoil. This last point is why I am looking for something dramatically smaller than a 7mag or 300, and initially considered a 223. Not because the recoil of the 7 or 300 would be so bad, because I can download them if it bothers me for a while, but because I am essentially looking for '1000 yard 22lr'. By that I don't mean 22lr levels of recoil, but I do mean it in the way people used to use 22's for, as a cheaper, light recoil practice alternative to their hunting rifle.

But yeah, your setup is similar, in some ways, to what I envisioned. I just want the heavy weight rifle to be even lighter recoiling, hence my draw towards the 223 and the 243, and maybe a 6.5.

Frankly, if it were not for the weight issue, I would probably just get a Sendero or an Accumark, or something like that, in 300 or 7 mag or whatever, but something with a stiffer, heavier barrel so it would cool quickly. Then I would not even do a two rifle solution. I would do one rifle...reduce the loads as needed for shooting all day, crank them up if I needed the power.

But I don't like carrying a 10lb rifle. Done that, and I don't care for it.