Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Give advice on two rifle battery

So I am changing up my rifle battery and wanted to get some advice. At the moment, I am fairly open minded, though I do have some specific requirements.

I am looking at a two rifle set.

For my primary hunting rifle, I am looking at a 300 win mag, though some have suggested I do a 7 mag to get lower recoil. I plan to use this rifle for everything in NA, including dreaming about Alaska and shooting long range at the range. I am used to shooting a 375, so I am not without some experience with recoil.

For this rifle, as it needs to be carried, I am looking at a Weatherby Vanguard put together by the custom shop. Essentially, it will be one of their range certified guns in an ultralight bell and carlson stock. Basically, a range certified Backcountry, sans the fluting and cerakote. With my scope and talley ultralights, it should come in at around 8.3 poundsish. I do not want to go higher than 9, and 8.5 seems about right.

For the second rifle, I plan to use it mainly as a practice and training rifle at the range and in some classes I plan to take. The idea is to become comfortable shooting at long range in practice, to make shooting at much more moderate range in the field possible. So for this rifle, I am much more unsure. I don't want anything close to the 300 (or 7mm if I go that way), I thought a good companion that would be good for the 1k range I have locally would be a 223 at the bottom (cheaper ammo, no recoil, but not good at that range), a 243, or a 6.5 of some sort(creedmore, 260 remington?).

Weight wise, fairly heavy barrel for stiffness and cooling. I won't have to carry it around a bunch, so heavy is fine.

I am more solid on the direction of the hunting rifle, much less so on what would make a good companion for it given my needs.

Thanks!

Buy an off the shelf Vanguard .223

I hunted with a 300winmag for over 12 years. Most of that it was my only centerfire rifle. After that time, I realized some damn long shots have been made with a 30-06.


Second gun should be a .223.

Being a "Extreme Firearms Enthusiast", I do have many guns to pick from for hunting or just going to the shootin' pit to shoot.
Our favorite gun, just to shoot, is a H&R Ultra varmiter.223. Super accurate. My wife has used it the last few years as her deer gun. She has made many, spectacular head and neck shots. This is a very reasonable priced firearm, and I think would probably fill the needs of what you want.

7mm RM and 243 Win.

Since you are planning on buying a vanguard 7RM I would alsogo with a Vanguard for the second gun in either .223 or .243.

.223 and 300 WSM

Add a 12 gauge (and forget the .22LR since there is no ammo for them) and you've got NA covered.

Pair of Kimber 84m's in .223 and 7-08

I would go with the .300 and .243. A .223 is nice for cheap ammo and light recoil, but isn't going to be nearly as good for longer-range practice as a .243 with higher-BC bullets.

You might consider making the .243 the same basic set-up as the .300, including weight and scope, and you might end up using it on more big game than you think.

Wow, lots of good and fast advice, thank you!

I thought about a 223 in a vanguard, but the twist is very slow for some reason. As I want to be able to shoot probably out to 1k with it, I would at least need a faster twist barrel for heavier bullets. So if I went with a 223, I would have to go with another brand.

Which leads to the 243. Need to check on what the twist is from Weatherby on those, but it sounds like many would agree having two guns similar if not identical would be a good idea. So I'll look into that.

And I do have a younger son who needs a light recoiling rifle to hunt with next year...so that might be a good thing. As a round, I really think 243 may be the perfect round for our central Texas deer, and it's easy to find ammo, though Id be handloading high BC bullets for it for my uses. What kind of twist do I want to look for here?

John, I heard you have an article coming out in Guns this month on the 300 win mag. Based on your recommendation above, sounds like fortuitous timing for me, I'll be looking out for that one.

Any thoughts on the Range Certified vanguards? I talked with the custom shop and they told me they are generally looking for .5 to .75 inch shooters, which is what I am looking for. Having spent the last couple years of savings on a couple rifles that would not shoot (bad luck..and yeah, had others, including two accomplished competitive shooters, try them and get the same results), I am looking for a more secure choice. Plus, the stocks fit my long neck and thin face better than the 'classic' stocks seem to. Seeing that it was actually tested and knowing the load that delivered the results is worth the extra couple hundred it will cost me to get the rifle RC'd when they assemble it for me.

Thanks again for everyone's help!

Smart man. I don't care for the recoil of the 300 win mag myself. They recoil more than any 338 win mag I've ever had. Exact same rifles compared side by side and the 300 winny always kicked harder.

I can't see a 2 rifle battery for North America including a magnum of any sort.

For the second rifle, 223.

David

Either 30-06 and 223,
or 7RemMag and 243.

If long range is in the equation, the latter has it in spades.

If you like the Vanguards, then go for it--they are good rifles. Most any rifle model will do, but I'd keep a matched pair if it were me.

I'd go 30-06 and a .243.

Hey I was gonna say that! Well, I guess I will say a .243 on the light end, and a .270.....

I used to shoot Winchesters. In fact, I just sold my Win 375 and am about to sell my 270 from long ago. I just realized, after buying my son a Vanguard, that they fit me much better and so I find them easier to shoot (compared in the same caliber at the same time).

A matched set sounds smart because that way everything translates exactly. Seems like that's the one thing everyone agrees on so far!

The long range part, probably not so much during hunting, but definitely during range time, that's something I like.

Still on the fence, somewhat, on the calibers. But I'll note that two or 3 of my favorite gun writers/personalities like the 300's, including John who just weighed in, so I'll probably end up there. My only concern is hearing about the recoil. When I run my recoil calculator and compare it to my 375 (which was light weight for a 375), I should be cutting recoil by 33% and recoil velocity by about 10% or so. So it should be quite nice for me in comparison, but I keep hearing people voice concerns about the recoil. Maybe it's relative.

Anyway, keep the ideas coming!

Well, damn. Looks like a Vanguard in 243 is not going to work. I just checked Berger's site to see what the twist requirements are. Nothing over their 90 grainers will run in anything less than a 1/9. Weatherby puts a 1/10 on their 243's. So I would have to run 90's or lighter, which pretty much cramps the BC's.

So that means either a 243 from someone else, or a Vanguard in something else. Their 6.5 creedmore vanguards run a 1 in 8 twist, which will run all the way up to their 140's.

The recoil would be higher, however....but it seems most would suggest keeping a somewhat matched set as more important than perhaps the caliber etc....

For long range consider a rifle for F class competition. Look at the NRA website for matches near you.

http://compete.nra.org/

Not a gunwriter but just a guy with some perspective. 2 rifles? Forget it. Hey, golfers use nine - twelve clubs and the size of the game, read ball, never changes. Ranges run from 150 to 450 yards but you get three to five shots to get there.

North American game can run from dinky deer to big moose and ranges can run all over the place. Get a few rifles designed for the most likely task at hand and don't try to get through life with one or two. Be a rifle nut.

Ruger and Remington are the only ones making 9 twist 243's that I am familiar with.

If it was me, I'd happily grab the 6.5 Creedmoor in the Vanguard. Ammo availability isn't as good of course, but the Hornady ammo for the Creedmoor is very good, and priced right.

The barrel will last longer, and to me it just seems like a more versatile chambering.

Recoil is a VERY subjective thing. Some whine and cry about the recoil of a 270 win.

The 300 WM is one of my favorite cartridges and currently have a Win 70 Winlight. All up including ammo it comes in about 7.5 lbs or so. Yes, it has some kick but NOT extreme to me. (for hunting not long bench sessions)

The WORST kicking rifle I've EVER had was a Ruger 77 tang model in 338 WM. I didn't have it long and have NEVER missed it. FIT and recoil pad are of utmost importance.

Sounds to me like you don't have a problem with 300 recoil. Listen to yourself.

The 6.5 Creedmoor is a fine cartridge, and if you go that route your 7mm magnum or .30-06 or .300 (or whatever the "big" rifle turns out to be) will get much less use than you planned. Instead the 6.5 Creedmoor will turn into your all-around rifle, and the other into a specialized rifle.

Exactly how much BIG game hunting are you planning to do?

How much BIG game hunting am I planning to do? That actually is very hard for me to answer in less than a page. Suffice it to say, it's complicated.

I guess what I WOULD say is that I do recognize the needs vs wants issue. A 300 is probably not a need, though Nilgai, Eland cow, Elk and maybe Bison cow can realistically be on the menu in the next year or two (not all, but one or two of these).

That still does not make it a need, but again, it's complicated.

I do see the 6.5 creedmore as being uncomfortably close to the 300, which was one reason for this original string in the first place. So maybe a little explanation of my mindset would help, I'll try and be brief by witholding too much explanation or reasoning behind my thoughts.

But basically, the 300 becomes my 'do anything anywhere' rifle. It is both somewhat practical and fantastic, considering my tax bracket. But it's fun to dream, and I will get to stretch it's legs at the range.

However, recognizing it's higher recoil, and that it's slight barrel will heat up rather quickly, shortening my practice time at the range, upon advice of others, I decided to trade my 270 (too close to a 300, does not fit me well, light barrel etc.) for a heavier barreled, lighter powered cartridge to use at the range. Here a 10 pound rifle is not a hinderance, and with a target weight barrel, it will cool more quickly, be stiffer, less recoil than 300 for all day shooting etc. So this is to be more of a training and range gun. Kind of (but not really) in the way 22's have served as cheaper trainers in the past, but one for punching steel out to 1200 yards (hopefully!).

Hence, kind of starting with a 223 at the bottom and a 260 remingtion at the top. The goal is long range target shootability to help translate skills to shooting the 300, which I will do until it overheats or I do.

So in summary...think of the 300 (or 7mm, or whatever) in terms of the one gun for all of North America...everything. Has to be carried, so relatively light, etc.

And then think of the lighter gun as more of a companion trainer/target rifle to be used in classes and at the range when I have tired of shooting the 300 etc.

I know, clear as mud, right?

Light 308 for hunting. Heavy 308 for practice.

I think you're misjudging the Creedmoor. With a touch less powder capacity than the 260Rem, I think it fit's your goal very well.

your two rifle battery is a .30-06 ad a .243

To the OP,

You've received good advice from several different perspectives here, and seemed to like the idea of a .300 and a .243.
The fact that Wby's ,243 barrels are twisted slower than you like should not be an issue. Barrels are relatively inexpensive, and easily changed.

My combo for years was the .243 and the .300W, with the .300 being a rebarrel of an old m700.

Last winter brought me an old model 70 in .300 h&h, custom stocked in a McMillan, that I am coming to really appreciate for it's superb handling and easy shooting charm...

I were you, I wouldn't get too locked in on any one type of rifle for my pair til I had one in hand to shoot for a while.
In short, experiment...

Also, the thought of a heavy barrel for your "practice" makes little sense to me.
To me, serious practice means deliberate low volume shooting whist keeping track of conditions and variables. When practicing on a range i "book" my shots into a range book.
But, when practice turns serious, I wander in search of vermin, to shoot from field conditions and unknown range. A light rifle is better in this regard...

catorres,

I have used the .300 Winchester Magnum considerably in both North America and Africa for a wide variety of game, including such supposedly super-tough animals as trophy elk and blue wildebeest. It's always worked very well, and the recoil doesn't bother me, even with bullets in the 200-grain class. The .300 with heavier does have certain advantages over smaller cartridges, but it certainly isn't a necessity for, say, trophy elk, as some people claim.

On the other hand, my wife and I have used the .270 on all the animals you just listed as BIG game possibles except cow eland, and they all died promptly. And I wouldn't hesitate to use the .270 (.or .308 Winchester, or any similar cartridge) on cow eland.

Unless you actually plan to hunt brown bear, a bull wood bison in the Northwest Territories, or maybe a trophy Alaska-Yukon moose, the .300 certainly isn't even close to a necessity. Which is why I said that if you buy a rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor (or .270 or .308 Winchester, or any other similar round) you won't be needing/using the .300 very much.

It's great to dream of going after really big game, but unless you're actually going to do it soon, buying a big rifle and using it as your all-around rifle may or may not work out. One of the worst flinchers I've ever guided was a young man who intended to be an Alaskan guide, so bought a .338 Winchester Magnum, intending to use it as his only rifle for a year or so before he headed north to find his dream. I ended up as his guide on a pronghorn hunt in Montana, and by the end of the hunt he was using my .220 Swift, because that's how low we had to go to get rid of his flinch.

You said you're used to the .375 H&H, but I have also been on African safaris with hunters who started out shooting their .300, .338 or .375 magnum fine. But after several days of shooting it at EVERYTHING they started to flinch. Luckily, most of them also had a lighter rifle along, and switched--and their percentage of clean kills went up, usually to 100%. Which of course means the magnum wasn't a necessity in the first place.

I'm not saying you can't handle a .300 Winchester. I am saying there's no reason to use a .300 for everything, and there are disadvantages.

catorres

Read this^^^^^^^^^^ then re-read it..., I don't think you find a better answer to your question.

This...

In all the years that I paired the .243 and the .300W, it was the .243 that went just about everywhere and did just about everything...

Same with me johnw,except my "big gun" is a 30-06

I can shoot 40-50 rounds of 300 RUM off the bench in a t-shirt and it doesn't bother me a bit. BTDT. And I still would not want to have a 300 WM as my primary hunting rifle. It just doesn't make sense, and isn't needed. I use a 7mm-08 or 308 more than anything else. 243s as well. And I own damm near everything there is including 300WM, 30-06s, 7mmRM, 35 Whelen, etc., etc.

FWIW, I prefer the 7mmRM over the 300WM, and basically 7mms over .308s in general.

Having only 2 rifles would be rough.........

I advised a nephew to go with the kimber 84m in .223 and .308...

He got the .308 and just uses it for about everything...

I think you should switch it to a 3 rifle battery

.223 and .308 or 30-06 in the same model.

Two 6.5 Creed's would not be a bad choice.

A sporter, and a pig.

Following the light/heavy idea, my two 30-06's.

Wow, lots of experience and advice here. Honestly, not really sure how to address it all or incorporate it. As I mentioned before, there are lots of details about my motivations that I am leaving out so as not to bore everyone. Wish the lot of you could come over and we could just chat it out over a kegger. Probably still take a few hours to sort it all!

So I am reconsidering based on what I am reading and at the moment, the permutations are endless.

But a couple points. First, the advice about not needing a 7 or 300 mag is well taken, I concur, for sure. Much of where I am going is about 'want'. Honestly, if I were to try and predict realistic and conservative need, anything off the shelf will work. Going further, I could probably just use my son's rifle and not even have one of my own. So everyone is correct, I don't need a 7mag, 300 mag, 3006, etc. Any one will work, as well as almost any other caliber at my local sporting goods store. With good bullets, and pie pan accuracy at range, the hunting can get done.

But I am playing as much as needing. So what I am wanting is a long range hammer (for fun at the range)that is also useful for hunting (low weight etc.), and that I can enjoy knowing it is a great and capable 'all around' cartridge, even if my hunting reality never reaches 'all around'. I like shooting big guns, my 375 was a hoot to shoot. The challenge and feeling of putting a big powerful bullet precisely on target at distance is fun. I shot rams with it in west Texas, not needed, obviously, but just fun. I guess what I am getting at in as short a way as possible is admitting that my motivations are not entirely logical or purely practical, I know that going in.

But I do recognize that 30 pounds of recoil gets tiring and light barrels take a long time to cool down in Texas summer heat, so I decided on something also more of a range gun, that would be lighter in recoil and good for shooting all day long at 1000 yards or more.

With that little bit of additional information, please gut check me here.

Part of my like of the 300 is that it seems incredibly versatile. I handload pretty much exclusively (cost reasons and flexibility). Looking at my load books, I can pretty easily load it down to fairly light 3006 levels. I do this with my son's 270, and it shoots very accurately with the light loads. I did this with my 375 as well.

So, not rhetorically, why would I get a 3006 or 308? If I want it to recoil lightly, I'll put 2 scoops of raisins in instead of 3. And if I want more horsepower, well, I can fill it up and run it as fast as need be. What am I missing? That is the reason I have not considered buying a 308 as a companion, though maybe I should. It just seems if I want less recoil, I'll just use reduced loads instead.

Second thought, putting aside what I mentioned above, and clarifying that the second rifle is a long range play/practice gun, maybe a 308 DOES make sense. I could use the same bullets, there are lots of rifles available. Etc. The problem that I stick on is that there are other lighter recoiling loads that do better at 1k (260 rem, 6.5 creedmore, 243 maybe?)

Lastly, if I were to abandon the 300 as too big and get something smaller, many have mentioned the 3006. But it seems maybe the 7mag would be better to fill both the hunting and long range play need...sameish level of recoil, but flatter shooting and great BC's on lighter weight bullets. 280 AI would be good, but I want a factory rifle, not a custom.

Well, if I sound conflicted, you are right. So much good advice to consider that is, fortunately, making me really think through what I am doing. That will take me a few days, there is a lot to consider and I like to take my time and work through things. In addition, there are a lot of details and background that are just too tedious to post here, so that makes it complicated, but thank you all for sharing your opinions and experiences. They are definitely thought provoking and helpful!

IF I was to do it again and wanted 'hunting' rifles for North america. It would be, 223/5.56, 270 and 338.
I know that is one too many.
But you can't go wrong with 243 and 7mm or 300WM

Yeah, this is very close to what I had originally envisioned.

The lighter barreled rifle, for me, would be what I would carry and hunt with, but would also be used as much as possible at the range for shooting long range (and for taking classes). It's strength would be it's lighter weight, and flexible horsepower. It's weakness would be that the light weight barrel would heat quickly in Texas and the recoil on full house loads would limit productive range/class time (though the last could be overcome easily with handloads)

The heavy barreled rifle would be (in some ways) like a 22... primary purpose is an easy day of long range shooting at the range, good for learning the basics of long range shooting in classes, cheaper shooting, faster cooling, and having a second rifle to shoot while the 'primary' cools down (which is hard when it's 100 degrees outside!). This rifle would probably get more volume shooting due to it's faster cooling, if not also the lower recoil. This last point is why I am looking for something dramatically smaller than a 7mag or 300, and initially considered a 223. Not because the recoil of the 7 or 300 would be so bad, because I can download them if it bothers me for a while, but because I am essentially looking for '1000 yard 22lr'. By that I don't mean 22lr levels of recoil, but I do mean it in the way people used to use 22's for, as a cheaper, light recoil practice alternative to their hunting rifle.

But yeah, your setup is similar, in some ways, to what I envisioned. I just want the heavy weight rifle to be even lighter recoiling, hence my draw towards the 223 and the 243, and maybe a 6.5.

Frankly, if it were not for the weight issue, I would probably just get a Sendero or an Accumark, or something like that, in 300 or 7 mag or whatever, but something with a stiffer, heavier barrel so it would cool quickly. Then I would not even do a two rifle solution. I would do one rifle...reduce the loads as needed for shooting all day, crank them up if I needed the power.

But I don't like carrying a 10lb rifle. Done that, and I don't care for it.

Yeah, this last is what was originally suggested to me. I think one of the things is that I have done a poor job communicating what I am really trying to accomplish and what I intend to do with these rifles.

You could almost say one if for hunting everything and, to a lesser degree, light 'tactical' fun at the range. The other is pretty much purely about long range target shooting for fun and training.

They are not both hunting rifles. Someone suggested an F class rifle, and this is probably pretty close to what I had in mind for the second gun. If hunting is 'practical', then the second is very much not that. The first is primarily 'practical', secondarily 'tactical'.

But even with that said, yeah, I don't realistically need a 300 or 7 mag. Though I can load them down, that is a reality I need to really think on and balance any downsides with just the fun of having that much power at my disposal.

Honestly, I really liked hunting with my 375...it was fun.

It it was 1 rifle, a .30/06 or .300 Winchester.

For 2, I'd consider the .25/06 and the 7mm Remington Magnum if the lower 48 is a definite and the .300 Winchester if you want the keep the hunting door ajar.

The .25/06 will cover all the light end and creep into "opportunity territory" and the 7mm Remington is a do all as far as you can do it cartridge.

Either way, both rifles will feel similar and have the same bolt throw. Both should be scoped the same so they are twins.

John

I'm no writer, but the goals that you state for your 2 rifles don't sound realistic to me.

I've run through 50 rounds of rimfire and 5 rounds of 25-06 (and some honey-do's) since my above post. I can and do shoot right here at the house, and I still wouldn't have hours in the day or week for what you propose.

But... You're not me, and if you can swing it, it still seems that you need at least 3 rifles for your stated purposes...

'Keep the hunting door ajar'

I like that! It pretty much sums up the way I think about these things.

That constant possibility of 'what if' that keeps you pushing forward to do more than you thought possible.

I used to have a lot more, but I traded them all in for a couple kids

The 8 year old, btw, would gush over your avatar, being a serious Maiden fan....

For a carry BG rifle i'd look very hard at a 270 WCF from NULA for a long actioned rifle.And a 6.5x284 NULA for a short one.With TTSXs you could handle just about anything on 4 legs in NA and not have the recoil of a 7mm mag or the 300 mag.You might actually enjoy shooting it.
NULAs are expensive.But weight wise quality wise and everyother wise you will be all done.
If I had followed my own advise I could have saved an awful lot of money...
For playing around double duty stuff.
I'd look at something like MontanaMarines bigger rifle in a 6.5x47 Lapua.I like MMs set up on that rifle and a 6.5x47 kicks less than a 06.Dont give up much of anything to a 06 at a grand either..
We shoot 6.5x47s all summer long at 1000 BR matches and do very well.Figure 2000 to 2500 rounds of BR accuracy before you need a barrel change.

dave

One rifle and I would also go with a 270 or 7/08.

Two rifles and I would go with a 243 paired with a 30-06 or 300 WSM.

Did someone already say that?


grin

Yeah, or pretty close to it!

It is easy to make the correct choice, as there is only one. Get two 222 Remingtom magnums and when you get a little extra money buy a third...

Hard to beat an 8 twisted 243 for target shooting and most of your NA hunting. For slightly bigger game, a 280ai will fill things out nicely.

318 Westley Richards and 6.5X55 would put you in good stead.

Is there a factory 243 that comes with an 8 twist?

I kind of like this pair. Plenty of brass and commonly available ammo and components. In the 7 RM category lots of stuff will work but I would not want any odd ball rifle looney cartridges. Too hard to find ammo on hunts if you should need it for some reason. But in truth there's a bunch that will work on anything.

The 7 RM is a legit LR cartridge, recoils moderately and kills anything on the continent. The 243 does the other target/varmint/light game work.

Personally I would not want just one rifle in the 7RM/30/06 class...planned BG hunts are expensive in time and/or money.If you have a last minute problem with a rifle you should have another ready to go right away that you trust and shoot well.

I know of faactory 1/9 twists.
Are you truly stuck on factory?

Bob,
Common sense and practicality is not the purpose of the "innernet", although you did allow a second cartridge into the conversation if only to appease the OP.

There was an article series (very briefly) about 40 years ago (Don't recall the Mag) whereby 2 writers took opposing views on a cartridge.

I think the market is ready for a new series.

John

Ha! I haven't seen Maiden since the late 80's....Lol I couldn't resist Eddie with a sniper rifle when I first saw it.

Since you have the 8 yr. old, either get a 223 or 243 twisted 1-8. Then get a 7mmRM and call it good. If you ever find yourself wanting larger, replace that old 375. You will have all the bases covered....

30-06 and 243 Win.

John I am sure you have noticed that I tend to "lump" cartridges by class...won't deny there are differences but for myself results have been pretty much the same with various cartridges within the "class", i.e., everything I shot ended up dead.

For me it's always been more about the hunting and less about the gack,but I became a rifle nut anyway.

As to a new, more contemporary series, how about a 300WSM and a 6XC....I could live with that.

+1

The 300WSM should not be overlooked.

It does a lot, with manageable recoil.

A case of do as I say . . .

I guess when the 7 Mashburn went SAAMI I missed it.

Since this thread keeps limping along, I'll change my vote. I believe in the 51-rifle battery, since that's exactly how many centerfires are in my rifle collection right now.

You can easily round them all up in a few years of buying and trading, especially if you lose money on each deal.

I kinda liked your first advice.
Infatuation with fast twist is OK, but I have friends shooting longer .243 bullets out of 1/10 barrels and doing great.

And the .300 Winchester has always been a cornerstone cartridge, for me.

And I have enjoyed beating up on those staked to their anglophilic tendencies who tout the .30 Holland.
But am quickly coming to appreciate the rifle I recently gained in that chambering.

It's a particularly well set up M70. and is a joy to shoot...
Might just be what the .300 Win was intended to be...

haven't read the whole thing, someone mentioned .223 and 7mmm-08. Pretty good advice.

I'd recommend a .223 and a .308, in the same rifle and same scope, stocked the same.

then buy 1000 rd case of .223 and of .308.

If you shoot that up, you will know your rifles, and I expect you'll be a pretty good shot @ 1000 yds.

Sycamore

Pure rifle loonyism ,51 is a lot to treat properly without any of the others getting jealous!!!!!

I could make do with just an 06 or 7mmRM. Two, a 375 H & H and an 06. You have a practical 150 grain range with the 06 (100 to 250 grain bullets), and either cartridge can be loaded down and shot with cast bullets.

cat,

Have you tried out the Rem700 BDL stocked rifles? It seems to me that they would give you the stock fit that you desire (similar to the Vanguard). Likewise, the newer CDL stock might also fit you very well. If so, you've got some great factory options.

I would go a BDL Varmint Special in 243 (gets you a fast-enough twist for 105 grain bullets and will vaporize varmints if desired with a 55 grain bullet).

Match that with a standard BDL in 270, 7RM (the best choice), or 300WM (all of which will match the basic trajectory of the 243), depending on how much recoil you want to deal with. You'd have matching platforms with matching trajectories that get you where you want to go, and have all kinds of upgrade options available.

If you prefer, you can get a Rem700 "tactical" 223 heavy barrel with a 9 twist, and match that with a 30-06 to have all the same advantages.

Whelan: Hey we are playing games here...

This is for two rifles only and i am not limited to that. The Mashburn stays.

wiw,
A few pairs come to mind. I asked this question 20 years ago on the Shooters board. If I had only taken that advice and run with it... What a long, expensive, and largely fun journey it has been...;-)

Classic and practical: .30-06' and .375 H&H
Even more classic and less practical: .300 H&H & .375 H&H
Remington centric and fun: .223 Ackley Improved/7mm-08 Ackley Improved
Shootable and capable: 6mm Creedmoor/6XC and .308 Win/.30-06'
Just because: .257 Weatherby Magnum and .375 Weatherby Magnum

The last two are so sexy I just might have to build a pair...

The one thing I would keep in mind is to take a look at available brass, brass quality, bullet availability, etc.. I love the Holland twins but brass is either hard to get, damned expensive, or both. Same deal for the Weatherbys... Except for the Remington Brass on the former...

An efficient and FUN 6 combined with a heavy thirty would be hard to fault...

Regards, Matt.

It'd be real hard to beat the practicality of a 223 or 22-250 and a 308 or 7-08.

Think BC and velocity...

I.E. a 300WM w/ 165 Partitions at 3k and a 223AI with 75 AMax at 3k damn near shoot on top of each other. Only difference is the amount of recoil on your end and the amount of ass on the other.

Since drop is dialable and wind is voodoo, I'd get the voodoo factor as close as I could.

50 BMG and 17hmr.




Grin.... second choice 30/06 and .223.

Well, I spent the day taking my son hunting and it seems while I was out this thread took on a life of it's own!

I think what I need to do is build up a 51 gun battery like John, than I could probably take everyone's advice!

BTW, had a couple of 375's in the past. LOVE that round, maybe will get back to it some day. But just sold my last one, to finance this new rifle, so it will have to wait a while till I can do a full custom to get what I want. IE, when I don't have so many mouths to feed, and guns to buy for little ones!

More seriously, does any factory .243 (yes, for cost sake, I am limited to factory rifles) come in an 8 twist? The fastest I have seen as of yet are Remington and Savage, both with about a 9.25.

And if not, does it really matter to be limited to 90 grainers or whatever the limit would be? I just find it really hard to believe that all these great BC 6mm heavies can only be run out of custom guns, but maybe that is the truth of it?

As for the 7mm v the 300, still on the fence, but it will be one of these, I am quite sure. They both have their strengths to my mind.

On the BDL question someone posed, I have not really looked too carefully at these. I'll have a look at the site tonight and then maybe hit the shop tomorrow to give one a feel.

The one upside to the weatherby, other than it fits etc., is that I have a very good price from the custom shop on a rifle configured the way I want it, but also test fired (RC), and the data supplied to me. I don't think I could possibly have a custom built even close to the price, let alone have it test fired and guaranteed etc. Having the experience I have had in the past year with rifles, accuracy and lost savings, this mitigated risk has a lot of value to me at the moment.

Ha! I haven't seen Maiden since the late 80's....Lol I couldn't resist Eddie with a sniper rifle when I first saw it.

Since you have the 8 yr. old, either get a 223 or 243 twisted 1-8. Then get a 7mmRM and call it good. If you ever find yourself wanting larger, replace that old 375. You will have all the bases covered....[/quote]

Seems like the 7mag and a 243 has a lot of fans. Replacing the 375 will come someday, I hope. I'll need to do some additional research on both of these and what is available out there. But again, it seems popular.

[quote=johnw


And I have enjoyed beating up on those staked to their anglophilic tendencies who tout the .30 Holland.
But am quickly coming to appreciate the rifle I recently gained in that chambering.

It's a particularly well set up M70. and is a joy to shoot...
Might just be what the .300 Win was intended to be...[/quote]

I have to admit, I have always loved the 300 h&h. That is such a classic cartridge, I thought that it would be cool to have with 375.

My friend was recently given one as a gift from his father. Pre-64 winchester, new condition unfired, in the box! I believe his grandfather bought it originally and just held on to it.

He has carefully laid the original stock aside, and put a McMillan on it, and took it hunting this year.

And I have always loved the .300 win. Or at least have used it from the mid 70s on.

I am coming to grips with the reality that some of the coolest rifles made were discontinued around the time that the .300W was introduced...

catorres1
Ruger has a 9 twist,Rem has a 9 1/8. Guys on here say they've shot 105g A-Max's out of them and the bullet stabilized.

I had a Rem. and shot a variety of 100g bullets with no problems.

I'm not aware of any factory 243 with an 8 twist

A lot of guys are shooting the 105 amax through 1/10 barrels and doing great with them...

I am a fan of concept. I use a .243 Win for the light cartridge and a .264 Win Mag as the heavy. I have used the 7mm Rem Mag in the heavy role and it worked great.

Both rifles are essentially identical except for the cartridge.

Mine are a bit heavier than your thinking but it works for me. This picture is 5 years old but except for a barrel replacement or 2 and a paint job now and then I have not change a thing.


I have shot a bunch of 105gr VLDs in factory Rem .243 Win with great results.

30-06 and .223,,,, yep sure is boring but it works

A little late to the thread and not as experienced as previous posters, but was in the same situation as you.

I have used the 7mmRM for hunting in the US. I have not shot any elk or bears, but from what I have read and seen, with 160gr Partitions, which is my load, I shouldn't be too handicapped should I get the chance to go after them.

Wanting to get some more practice and work at long range (and with a 5yo who at some point I want to get shooting) I thought hard, researched and settled on the .243win. As it turns out one came up in the classifieds here and it was too a Savage 110E. So now both are long actions Savages, even better.

So I have now 2 SaLvages in almost same config , the 7RM does have a wooden stock and 24" bbl, the 243 has the factory one tupper one and 22".
Re: twist rate, I just loaded up my first batch of 95gr BT rounds to see how it work, but with Fed 100gr factory stuff shot well. I have a friend that shoots 105 Amax with excellent results in M70. No need for custom barrels.

Reading opinions from more experienced user I guess I wasn't wrong in my choices... even if for the wrong reasons (the 7RM I bought used from a friend's friend, when I moved here so I just bought it on the cheap).

In my opinion most guys waste way too much time worrying about the type of rifle, and what the chambering is going to be. They should be focusing on the purchase of a schit ton of brass, powder, and good bullets. Both practice bullets and your hunting loads.

Also people buy schit based on very low probabilities. i.e. "I may hunt elk one day."

My "pair" are a 8" 22-250 and a 7-08. They're pretty much identical and they cover 99% of what I do. And for the other 1%? You're gonna buy another fuggin' rifle anyway so don't worry about it.

These are my babies:




Travis

Agree with Travis.
Whatever you decide on, shoot it a lot, you will know the gun better than any ballistic program. My choice on the 7RM was because it was offered to me when I had just moved to Colorado and anything new or store bought was out of my budget.

The 243 I scooped it from the classifieds, I had decided I wanted something to get more trigger time on a centerfire and 243 would work in Peru too, so getting familiar is a plus. The fact that it matched the previous gun kind of sealed the deal.

Good stuff right there......

I have followed this thread for awhile and have waited to post. This is my two cents.

1. Buy matching rifles that you like. I cannot emphasize this enough.
2. 300 caliber for your all around. WSM, Win Mag, H&H because you do not have to load them to max all the time.
3. I would get a 264 caliber for your play rifle. 260 or Creed.
If you are really concerned about recoil, get a 223. If you are concerned about limiting reloading overhead get a 308.
This rifle matching your 300 is most important IMO. If it is a 243, 7mm-08, so be it.

Then on to this!

And when you are choosing your "light" chambering keep cost in mind there too.

500 count boxes of the 50gr. V-Max are about $70.00.

500 count boxes of the 168gr. HPBT are about $135.00.

Double the cost and we haven't even factored in powder difference. Not to mention your inability to shoot the heavier schit as much as the lighter schit.

If they're more or less identical rifles, you should be able to shoot the fugg out of the lighter rifle and gain pretty much the same benefits.

Food for thought...



Travis

I have similar to Travis, except mine is an AR in 223 and a 7-08. I like the idea of two rifles that are very similar, though.

Nothing I'm going to shoot in the next five or ten years can't be slayed with one, or both, with the right bullet.

Cat, A 308 and a 308. Muddy

This is another nice combo. Again, almost identical. 2-7X33 Leupolds. Sako Forester in .243 and a Vixen in .222 Rem [bleep].

Does it matter that brass is hard to find for the .222 Remm Mag? Not when you have friends that find and send you tons of the schit.

Of course most people east of the Mississippi think topping out on a .243 or a 7-08 is plain stupidity. But the reality is, my family and I hunt deer, coyotes, and varmints more than anything else. I've lived here five or six years now and I have hunted elk twice. I think. I live on the Hi-Line and while I would like to spend more time in elk country, the reality is time right now doesn't allow for much of it. So I buy and shoot accordingly. I think most people would be best served by purchasing based on reality instead of "some day..."







Travis

Now you are just showing off your Sakos. That Forester is very nice!

I gotta show 'em off while I still own them.




Travis

This^, and I've seriously contemplated thinning the herd of centerfires rifles at my home down to these 2.

Those 2 would cover any hunting I'm ever likely to do in the future. They certainly cover anything I've done in the past.

I live in elk country and my big gun is currently a 6.5x47L. Of course, hunting elk isn't my favorite, but I go at least a few days each year.

Looks like a pair to stay with...

This is why you were made a moderator.

I always laugh when the big bears come up in a lot of conversations when 95% + of hunters will never even see the big bears, much less hunt them.

308 and 243.

I'm the Moderator in Chief around this mofo.

Straight blastin' bitches.




Dong Kong

Very nice! What actions and stocks are those? Also, any idea on the contour of the barrels, are they identical in that respect?