24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,069
Campfire Kahuna
OP Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,069
I have an '08 Dodge Ram 2500 with the Cummins. The specs say it has an 1800lb payload capacity. I was told that the specs are often understated so I called the local dealer to find out. They used the VIN to check out this specific truck and found the real payload to be 2425lb. It also has Firestone air bags. Firestone says that with the bags you still can't exceed the GVWR, but Dodge says you can add another 500lb with them. That gets it up to 2900lb. I can't see me ever putting that much weight on it but we have been considering a camper and it really increases the options on what we could get.


“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell

It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
GB2

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,029
S
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
S
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,029
I'd say the air bags give you more stability, but not necessarily any more pay load capacity


If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,069
Campfire Kahuna
OP Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,069
That was my understanding, too, but the boys at Dodge say otherwise. Maybe their specs are taking that into account.


“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell

It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,289
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,289
Who did you talk to at the dealership? Was it sales, service, parts, or somebody in the fleet dept?

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,725
T
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
T
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,725
I put the Firestone airbags on my '12 1500. I can definately add 500 lbs. More load with no issues.

IC B2

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,069
Campfire Kahuna
OP Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,069
Sales. They have a website they go to with the VIN that gives them all the info by vehicle. The sales dept. here has a guy who specializes in this kind of stuff. My hunting partner has an '07 very similar to mine. He called the service dept to find out about his and they sent him to the guy in sales.


“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell

It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,389
M
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
M
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,389
The payload is the actual trucks weight subtracted from the GVWR.

There are no aftermarket gizmos that add payload. Airbags,helper springs,etc. may help the truck handle a load better,but don't add payload.

A salesman from a dealership is the last dude I'd believe about such matters.

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,187
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,187
^this. Payload is GVWR-unloaded weight. Period, end of story. You can look stuff up all you want, but the GVWR is printed right on the truck and the cat scales are probably nearby. Fill the tank, load everyone up and all the gear you want in the cab and weigh the truck. Subtract and you will have the one true answer.

Nothing made will absolve you of any liability if you are over GVWR. Helper springs and air bags don't increase GVWR. Can you carry more than the GVWR? Sure, but you do it against the recommendation of the truck manufacture and (potentially) in violation of state law.

Unless Dodge printed the wrong GVWR on your truck, you didn't learn anything. By the way, "payload" as advertised by the manufacturers assumes a base model truck with no options, a 150 pound driver (you weigh only 150 fully clothed?) and an absolutely empty truck. Sometimes they even remove the bumpers before they compute payload.

My truck has a 10,000 pound GVWR. Last time I weighed it with a full tank, the family with coolers, camper shell, some guns and gear etc (I was on a camping trip) it weighed 8,000 pounds on the nose. I had 2,000 pounds of payload left, regardless of what the sales brochure or air bag manufacturer said.


Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,294
W
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
W
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,294
Well put..

W


"I would build one again, if it were not for my 350RM (grin)."

MtnHtr
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,289
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,289
Originally Posted by Mossy


A salesman from a dealership is the last dude I'd believe about such matters.


Generally speaking you're correct but believe it not the only dept and people that have access to the info and the knowledge to figure payload is salespeople. Only one or two out of hundred salespeople that work on the "floor" actually know how to do it though. Knowledgeable folks in the fleet dept that deal with ordering chassis cabs (bare bones - no bed) and add aftermarket equip for service trucks (as in utility company trucks) are the exception. They have to compute payload for a custom configured rig on regular basis.

You can call me FOS but 3/4 ton Dodge trucks of that era were only capable (per Dodge specs) of carry the very lightest campers. As a rough rule of the thumb the camper could not exceed 1500 lbs dry weight. Once you added passengers, fuel, filled up the camper with water and stuff, you'd be at or over max GVW. If you had a camper that hung past the tailgate on a 3/4 T Dodge it was overloaded per Dodge specs.

But ... In a practical sense folks put big campers on older 3/4 T Dodge trucks and get away with it just fine.

IC B3

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,289
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,289
Originally Posted by K1500
^this. Payload is GVWR-unloaded weight. Period, end of story. You can look stuff up all you want, but the GVWR is printed right on the truck and the cat scales are probably nearby. Fill the tank, load everyone up and all the gear you want in the cab and weigh the truck. Subtract and you will have the one true answer.

Nothing made will absolve you of any liability if you are over GVWR. Helper springs and air bags don't increase GVWR. Can you carry more than the GVWR? Sure, but you do it against the recommendation of the truck manufacture and (potentially) in violation of state law.

Unless Dodge printed the wrong GVWR on your truck, you didn't learn anything. By the way, "payload" as advertised by the manufacturers assumes a base model truck with no options, a 150 pound driver (you weigh only 150 fully clothed?) and an absolutely empty truck. Sometimes they even remove the bumpers before they compute payload.

My truck has a 10,000 pound GVWR. Last time I weighed it with a full tank, the family with coolers, camper shell, some guns and gear etc (I was on a camping trip) it weighed 8,000 pounds on the nose. I had 2,000 pounds of payload left, regardless of what the sales brochure or air bag manufacturer said.



All of that is spot on however you could calculate the actual payload for a given vehicle as it was equipped from the factory instead of using the advertised generic info in sales brochures. There were adjustments that would take into account (for example) the engine and transmission ... diesels are heavier, gas are lighter. They didn't differentiate between trim levels though. The weight difference between a fully equipped leather SLT and a base model was negligible.

Most people are unaware but manual transmissions had a lower CGVWR (and towing capacity) than automatics and by quite a bit.

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,389
M
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
M
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,389
Honestly, payload means zilch to me. I'm more worried about axle and tire capacity than payload.

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,443
S
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
S
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,443
Originally Posted by Mossy
Honestly, payload means zilch to me. I'm more worried about axle and tire capacity than payload.


Yes sir. What he said

Last edited by specialK; 11/15/14.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,029
S
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
S
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,029
[quote=fish head
Most people are unaware but manual transmissions had a lower CGVWR (and towing capacity) than automatics and by quite a bit. [/quote]


Just checked the specs onmy 98 Dodge Cummins.Both manual and auto are rated 8800 GVWR, GCWR is 14000.

Last edited by saddlesore; 11/16/14.

If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 723
C
CKW Offline
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
C
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 723
Rock Chuck, I had a 2004.5 Dodge SRW 3500 with Cummins we hauled a camper on. I had airbags installed; carrying the weight was no problem for the truck. But the sway bothered me. For example, going up Logan Canyon to Bear Lake the truck easily could exceed the speed limit but swayed more than I liked in the turns. (The camper was a basement model that sat quite tall on the truck.) I hauled loads of gravel in the truck that were heavier than the camper and the truck did not care at all about the weight (but the tires looked squishy!) -- that is how I judged how much to put in the truck. It was weighed coming and leaving the gravel pit so I knew the exact weight.

I found installing taller extensions on the factory overload springs made the camper much more stable than with the airbags.

The biggest concern was the load limit of the tires. I weighed the truck on truck scales with and without the camper (fully stocked with water, etc.). It came within 200 lbs of the tire load limit. I gave serious consideration to replacing the tires and wheels with commercial truck tires to increase the margin of error but never did.

The truck carried the loads well and never lacked for power. As I understand it; the only difference between my SRW 3500 and a 2500 was running lights on top of the cab and factory overload springs. Brakes, wheels, tires, etc. were identical.

In my experience the tires were much more limiting than the rest of the truck.


"It is wise, though, to remember above all else: rifle, caliber, scope, and even bullets notwithstanding, the most important feature of successful big game hunting is to put that bullet in the correct place, the first time!" John Jobson
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,069
Campfire Kahuna
OP Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,069
Quote
The truck carried the loads well and never lacked for power. As I understand it; the only difference between my SRW 3500 and a 2500 was running lights on top of the cab and factory overload springs. Brakes, wheels, tires, etc. were identical.
You got me thinking. I went to a couple websites and compared several parts like bearings and hubs between the Dodge 2500 and 3500. In each case, the parts are the same ones. It makes me think that the 3500 is just a 2500 with heavier springs.


“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell

It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,029
S
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
S
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,029
Yep and a few extra $$$$$


If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,069
Campfire Kahuna
OP Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,069
which takes us back to my OP. The guy at Dodge said that air bags will add 500 lb to the payload of the 2500. If the only difference is the springs, then he's right because the air bags are designed to carry a lot of weight.


“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell

It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,771
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,771
Drove a '69 C10 Chevy for years as a company truck in construction. Everyone liked to fuss about the coil springs on the rear of those things.

When the truck was at least 10 years old, had to move a mess of 10" concrete blocks from one job site to another. Stuffed all we get on it. The step bumper was about 6" from the pavement and we pondered how much weight was on the poor ol' thing.

Later that year I lined the bed with cardboard and went for a load of fresh cold patch to repair some potholes in a parking lot. When I pulled on the scale, had 2100lbs of cold patch on it. Bumper was a good 12" off'n the pavement that time, so figure the blocks must've been close to a ton?

crazy

Guessing that old critter probably had a rated "payload" of far less than many of today's new half ton trucks with far better rear springs? But it regularly toted well over a half ton without complaint.


If three or more people think you're a dimwit, chances are at least one of them is right.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,069
Campfire Kahuna
OP Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,069
You can way overload about any of them for low speed and short distances. What happens, though, when you hit 70 on the freeway with your bumper 6" off the ground?

I spend 18 years working for a large LTL trucking co. I never heard how it happened, but we had a set of triples go across a scale somewhere in NM. The DOT boys told the driver to go around and drive across the scales again...sloooowly. They couldn't believe what they found. A 28' pup trailer on a single axle tractor is maxed at about 25k if loaded right. The other 2 trailers have to be lighter to make gross wt. The front trailer was loaded with pennies from a mint and some idiot had loaded 90K on it. The driver couldn't figure out that something was wrong with his rig other than he was moving a bit slow and sluggish.
They had to park the trailer where it was and send a crew out to transfer the load to other trailers.


“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell

It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
329 members (007FJ, 06hunter59, 01Foreman400, 10Glocks, 160user, 12344mag, 32 invisible), 2,141 guests, and 923 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,729
Posts18,400,838
Members73,822
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.074s Queries: 15 (0.005s) Memory: 0.8987 MB (Peak: 1.0576 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-29 11:23:45 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS