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You do this in a down bag for more than one night at a time? I think rain gear is one of the last things I'd eschew.

Plenty enough times. Obviously not when it's very cold- 40s or so. And nothing is cut and dried. But- if it's col enough that I'm worries about staying dry, it probably will be reasonably easy todo so as the precip is likely frozen. If its not so cold that I'm worries about being wet, then I'm just like every other guy on the mountain. I almost always have Patagonia something or other rain jacket - but eithe tima realist or a pessimist and it doesn't see the ligh of day much. Why? Well, how many threads are there about what to wear to stay dry, and nothin works. If water can ge out- water can get in. If water can't get out- it can't get out. If its raining in either in a bivysack, or movin around to generate some body heat and maybe find an animal. Glassing in the rain... You've seen it usually in the ak section- what to wear while glassin in the rain??? I can't glass well enough in the rain to see a return on the time spent doing it, so I go with what I know and cover ground with my feet.

Who among us stays dry when it rains on his trip? 2 days of rain and nothing is dry. Stop kidding yourself. May as well let the rain wash out some salt to help keep my clothes serviceable when they dry.

None of us, if we eschew rain gear. I go with rain gear. None of it's perfect, but it's better than getting soaked and drying out your clothes by sleeping in a down bag.

Like I said- my kit has room for improvement, but I need a new mindset first. Some people never learn they are impervious to water. Some never learn they needn't be. It's not like I'm giving advice on the matter. I will absolutely stand by my assessment that if its raining- and you can't/ wont get in a structure- you and your [bleep] will be getting wet. The realities of keeping things dry and in use in multiple days of rain are pretty grim. Dry, maybe. Dry and in use- to include your person (not just kit)- no so much.

I don't know what to tell you. You probably just need better rain gear. It's one of the last things I'd do without.

And yes, I have been in the rain outside all day, for more than a day and stayed reasonably dry. Hanging out alone in the backcountry in a 35-degree rain without rain gear is not something I'd do on purpose.

Where do you keep your rain gear while you sleep? How do you keep water from condensing inside it overnight?


35 degrees and rainy is pretty much a total loss. Anywhere tha it's hunting season in this country and rainy and 35 during hours of visibility stands a very good chance of being very cold and icy overnight... I would count on being wet and cold all day. If I had already spent a night I would not pack my sleeping bag and would elevate it on something in the tent or hang the bivysack over a rock or limb to avoid any potential of building standing water that could present an issue. If it were the firs night the bag would stay in a "warerppoof" stuff sack until I was ready to get in. I would keep a baselayer dry in a zipper type bag and use them only for sleeping in. Depending how soaked things are would define just how many and what wet layers get worn over the sleeping base layer to dry. 35 and raining will have me wearing whatever raintop I have while moving around- or sitting stationary. Much warmer than 35 and ill sweat enough while moving that it becomes a tossup. Not saying I sweat enough to simulate no wearing raingear but that partially evaporated pint or so of sweat bouncing back and forth between the moisture wicking baselayer and the waterproof breathable membrane sure starts to feel the same as being soaked after a while.


You saw where I mentioned safety vs comfort. You aren't going to throw up a fringe set of the exteme low end of "wet" weather- and get me to argue against raingear. There are times when doing what you can to limit exposure to the wet is a survival issue. There are times when it isn't.


Haha. I was going to type:
By virtue of the fact that I can even post this you have to assume I can effectively tell the difference and outfit myself accordingly.


But then I realized I'm on the Internet. And that's the last thing anyone would assume.

All I know about rain is it'll stop and thingsll dry out or it won't and they won't. I learned this outside

I keep it in the tent, which most of the time is floorless. I don't keep water from condensing inside it at night because there aren't any sources of water vapor inside it after I take it off.

35 degrees and rainy describes most of the early elk season I hunted in two years ago. It was miserable but my rain gear made it manageable.

I tell ya what they told me.

A) you already have a waterproof breathable membrane
B) your only wet on the outside. (Strictly speaking this one is false)


Point A is the one I'm going with now...

Actually- addressing your tent/ raingear - in my experience (gotta love that one) things in the tent (assuming its occupants are alive) get a pretty decent coat of condensation. Not drying wet clothes overnight would certainly reduce this. I can't remember off the top of my head how much water you give off exhaling all night... Bringing us to point a

The Waterproof breathable membrane- doesn't know if its condensed vapor or beads of sweat or rain that it isn't allowing into your body. They are all just wet- and back to B, but only on the outside.

Let me see if I've got these pearls straight, I don't want to miss anything that "they" told you.

1) By waterproof, breathable membrane, are you talking about your skin?

If you are, and it sure sounds that way, that has to be one of the most inane comments I've seen lately. Unless you've found a way to use your skin to keep your base layer and insulation dry. And if your skin makes a waterproof/windproof shell unnecessary, why not just hunt in your birthday suit?

2) I'm not sure what your point is regarding condensation inside a tent. Some backpacking tents are much better than others at either preventing condensation or making it not a problem, like well-ventilated single-walled tarp tents that pitch with the side walls up off the ground, or double-walled tents. And some are big enough (tipis) that it doesn't matter.

But what does all that have to do with whether going without rain gear is a good idea? Besides the fact that without rain gear, you'll be spending more time in the tent? With a decent tent, condensation will not be a problem.

Edited to add: The only reason I'm not dropping this is it's a bad idea to suggest to people, especially inexperienced people who may be reading this, that it's a good idea to go without rain gear on a backpack hunt. It's not.

In my limited experience, 2 days in the rain and 10 days in the rain are very different animals (for obvious reasons). You can stand to be hunting in the rain for 2 days straight and still be hunky-dory. But hunting out of a backpack and a tent, for 10 days straight, whilst staying dry, is an extremely tall order, and maybe even an impossible one. I had the best rain gear that I could buy, and my schit still got wet fairly regularly when I was exposed to over a week straight of hard rain and low ceilings.

Also IME, wet rain gear does not dry out in a tent while it is still raining outside. It simply stays wet.

Tanner

It dries real fine if you have a wood stove:)

Wood stoves don't work too well with no timber to burn!

Not that we have that problem in Colorado, but we don't normally deal with 10 straight days of rain either.

I had been meaning to ask you if you had figured out why I don't put much stock in raingear advice from folks around your home turf. Funny part is that you were in a relatively dry part of the state

175, if you want to test drive anything I've got, you are more than welcome.

Oh yeah... wasn't too hard for me to figure out why.

I'm stoked to check out some places like Kodiak and the Peninsula, but not looking forward to the weather at all!

Tanner

When it's wet, it's wet. The goal is to stay warm, not dry. Cold weather clothing systems are designed to work a certain way to accomplish that but apparently few understand how they work....


Don't think I would get in a down sleeping bag to dry out clothes.

A couple of things here - first I too have been able to dry clothing in a down bag. I am always amazed by how wet I can get my down bag and still have it work. Once I spent three straight days in the rain with just a bivy and the bag was SOAKED but it still worked - down bags do stop working when wet but they absorb a lot more water and still work than people generally believe.

All that said - once you've camped with a teepee and woodstove there is no going back. You can dry everything above the stove every day. Even the wet down bags. I don't need to dry my gear with body heat in the sleeping bag these days. I got a stove to do it for me.

Also the woodstove is really good for another reason that often slips under the radar. It means you don't have to eat freeze dried food. I can't believe how people have any energy to hunt after eating mountain house for days on end. I eat slow cooked on the stove rice and beans meals. REAL FOOD. No pouring the water into the bag and eating to survive and then retreat to the sleeping bag to sleep. In our teepee with woodstove we kick back and wait for our food. Dry our feet - talk - and eat eventually. Far more satisfying.

I also live on Kodiak island where it is supposed to be real wet and windy. I generally find dry willow and alder up to around 2000 feet. On a sheep hunt in the Brooks Range we found good wood up to 4400 feet. In the Brooks range we did a 10 day hunt and only used the 2 lb wood stove for cooking - it saved a serious amount in terms of propane cans.

Anyway, I guess I'm saying that if you want to improve your gear a lightweight woodstove might be a good idea! And I will add that a good tip is to bring wire - 2 summers ago I was in a place where it was too hot to cook inside a tent and so we set up the stove outside. We used the wire to fasten the stovepipe to a wood tripod. Far far better than trying to cook on a bonfire.

Patrick

Good stuff. I need to look into a stove and tipi setup more seriously, sounds like....

Tanner

A lot of valid points here and really no one is wrong. I still have not found the perfect rain gear that keeps me dry from the inside and outside. Personally, my best luck, has been wearing something water resistant, and then using something like a poncho / rain kilt , or even DWR dancing pants on the outside (I use what works not what sounds tough). I do live in dry Colorado, but I still find my way into the mountains when it's wet a lot.

The wood stove has a lot of benefits, especially for drying gear.

I'm with Patrick on the NO Mountain House. I don't know how you guys can eat those things daily. I've made some of my own dehydrated meals that work well before, but nothing pre-packaged has done the trick. Honestly, I'd rather carry sausage and other food if I feel the need for real meals.

You don't think the two are related? Especially with a breeze?

As far as Mountain House, there is a middle ground, if you supplement them with olive oil and/or small packets of meat. I still don't eat 'em every day but they have their place. Especially when you get to camp in the dark, maybe cold (and wet) it's nice to climb in the bag, boil some water, scarf it down, and crash.

I agree. The one breakfast Mtn House I tried was a giant fail. But otherwise, the spaghetti, lasagna, beef stroganoff are all pretty good IMO. I usually carry some summer sausage, swiss cheese, pita, dried cranberries and maybe some almonds and I'm good all day. Maybe just eat that instead of Mtn House.
I'll say this, freeze dried and dehydrated have come a looong way since my Boy Scout days back in the mid 70's!

But yeah, end of a long day of hiking and climbing, back at camp, pour some water in, scarf it down and hit the sack. I've made some of my own dried meals and used rice, dried soup mixes etc, etc, but simmering and preparing a meal and dish duty I typically have little interest in at the end of a long day.
Mtn House serves its intended purpose.

disclaimer: I've never eaten them more than about 4 days straight.