Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Alaska Pucker Factor!

I posted this over in the campfire but I forgot that it is only for stuff that has zero relevance to hunting. I'm sure this will get more appreciation here.

Nice. Too bad they had to shoot it.

That is getting it "real" for certain!

I thought the guide was pretty restrained, not popping it as it went by so closely. Seems like that could have turned ugly real quick. A bad shot and someone is getting opened up.

1400lbs of stomp a mudhole in your azz!! I'd be needing a change of drawers after that encounter.

What I hate about watching this stuff is that I end up yelling at the hunter to shoot again and he doesn't. And doesn't. And doesn't. The guy/guide with the gun did a spectacular job cleaning up!

Very cool footage! You know you're living when your memories get that real.

Wow!

Some serious pucker factor there! Very cool footage

WOW! Cool footage

can't wait to see this tonight, this is my bookmark

I'd be puckering for sure. Nice bear and an incredible video�Thanks for sharing!

Kodiak bear hunt--$25,000
New bow $1,500

The comment "We got him" after a 10 yard gut shot and the guide saving everyone's life....... Priceless!

I think that guide deserved a good tip. Pretty sure that at least one of those fellas was within 10' or so of a good ass chewin', at the very least.

That was a great video Ptarmigan, thanks so much for sharing it with us!

me and my boys really enjoyed it!

I respect those fellas that want to go after big toothy critters with a stick and a string, but it ain't for me!

no sir me neither


guided a few archery clients over the years
and was often asked if I bow hunted

my reply was usually ; no sir, I married an Indian princess and there aren't many of those left. I'm not a history major but from my gleanings of history, rifle trumps bow. I need every advantage I can get.

Looked like a bad bow shot to begin with

good video.

How do you see this?

It appears that the first arrow was low and under the bear as I see no response other than the bear looking under his feet.

The second arrow seems back a bit too far.

Hard to tell with angles from camera vs angles from archer.

I'd do it in a heartbeat and hope my guide was as calm as this one.

It wouldn't be for everyone though. That's for sure.

I also think that if they were not having to film that the bear may never have seen them...

Of course we'll never know since we were not there.

Brown with a bow and cape buffalo with a bow would be on my bucket list but I'll never be able to draw a bow heavy enough to take them on again.

I did seem like the shot was a bit far back, glad they were able to get things sorted out before it got gruesome. Thanks for the link.

Or did he just get downwind?

There was another bear in the background too. That would make it even more interesting, to say the least...

VERY possible... I didn't even consider that.

nice observation


hunting bears ime wind is a huge factor, they started off downwind of the bear or I don't believe they'd have ever gotten close enough to arrow him

after being struck by the second arrow, the bear was ambling off as twas evident he didn't feel good

from the video and observation of the bear it seems to me that's pretty much the way it went down.

hurt and pizzed off, and weighing 1400 lbs. once he got a nose full of those vile humans it was go time


thankfully one of those vile smelling humans had a rifle


kinda gives perspective on Native Americans respect for bears in the days before firearms.

Of course I'd much prefer to slip in a quiet lethal arrow and then slip off the other way for a long wait.... in an ideal world.

Of course wind changes when you least need it to, but I"d have thought he made about 90degree change of direction, IIRC, adn if that put him downwind of them, they didn't have the wind in their favor well enough to start with.

Exactly... I think they had too many people, too close and moved around WAY too much trying to keep the bear in the video. I suspect he heard them more than smelled them.

You can see from the brush and grass there was virtually no wind. Because there was no wind you can assume the warmer land is generating a small thermal effect (no breath seen in the video so the land is warmer than the water) creating at least some onshore "breeze."

I don't bet much, but I generally bet that unless there are other obvious conditions, wind will blow from the ocean to the land generally...

Not in winter... If the land is covered with snow and ice it will generally be offshore.

Wet air is lighter than dry air and the cooler air coming from the land will pick up water and warmth, causing it to rise and creating negative pressure.

The grass suggest two things in that vid. First, it is inclined (bent) toward the water which suggest prevailing air movement in that direction. Second, if you look at the first frames you can see it bouncing in the direction of the sea. The bear is about 45-60� from them at the first shot so he wouldn't scent them. However, after he is hit, and around the moment of the second shot, he appears to be downwind almost directly.
Bears' olfactory senses are dominant and are probably what triggered his 'locator beacon'

After looking at it carefully (finally) I have to agree with you there is a wind and the bear is moving downwind, mostly. And then it probably does cut their wind when coming up off the beach.

I also noticed the other bear suddenly alerted and took off at the shot. I think the cameraman was moving more than he shoulda been...

We don't freeze, so I have no clue when its cold what changes, but here, our predominant wind is from the water to the land, at least with our weatehr.

Didn't see frozen anything on that video.

But I will admit I have only watched it twice and neither one did I have it full screen etc.....

I would question why anyone would get htat close to a bear without solid winds in their favor. And why they would not back out if it started to change.... but again not my call. Stupidity can abound at times. And we may well not ever know the complete story.

But the filming and how many folks and movement of the hunting party, well for the sake of film I do think it was dangerous and dumb.

Though I would have certainly kept my muzzle following the bear at all times...

The thing many may not realize is how far away really close stuff looks on a GoPro... That bear was CLOSE!!!

Absent other forces, air is going to move toward the warmer surface because it will get lighter and rise creating a relative vacuum behind it.

Close is an understatement! WOW.

I did notice that it would've been pretty hard to shoot that bear under the chin...

A couple of thoughts�while onshore breezes are very common, especially as the sun hits land during the day, both mornings, and especially evenings perhaps, tend to be times when the air can shift 180� in just moments. In fact, it's not uncommon at all for very cold air shifts in the evenings right around sunset (out on the west coast). And these breezes might last for 5-10 minutes and then die. I'm thinking they probably wanted to get as close as they could with the bow, but wind is simply something that you can't predict for certain around that kind of terrain. I don't think freezing temps have anything to do with it as much as the sudden 20� temperature shifts you can get near big water.

A couple of thoughts relating to animals' senses�I recall one time when a dog I had who was very loyal to me heard my wife and I coming up the road in the twilight. He had alerted on us because he could see us coming but couldn't see us well enough to recognize us. Trying to get him to quiet down, I spoke to him but he wouldn't quiet down even though I'm sure he recognized my voice and his name. But once we got upwind, he shut right down and and postured a guilty pose.

And quite a few years ago, I was working the "s" part of a SAR for a party that had been missing for three weeks. I was searching a rocky coast line for remains or incidentals. At one point I was in a small cove (in bright sunlight) and came upon a good-sized bear trundling along on a sandy beach picking up bits of stuff with the tops of its claws and raising them to his lips. He was facing me between 50-75 feet away. I was idling along in my skiff with a 90 hp 2-stroke putting in gear. That animal could not have missed seeing or hearing me but it seemed to make no difference, �..until I felt the breeze hit the back of my neck. I was glad I was not closer because that animal became a virtual shiπ-rocket in its departure. The nose is to a bear what eyes are to humans, except that their nose works many times better than our eyes do.

Both arrows appeared to me to be gut-shots. I suspect this bear would have taken a long time to die had the guide not jumped in.

You only have issues visualizing an under-chin shot because you aren't a SMURF!

Now got a couple full screen looks.

Wind did not appear to be anywhere close to what I"d risk holding a bow.... thats part of bow... you accept your limitations. I know folks bowhunting for grizz living in AK for 20 years that have yet to shoot, because the situation is not right... Could be something to do with stitches he had finishing off a friends wounded bear once.... might make you a lot more particular...

First shot appears to be back and low. Pretty clear on that. A step at the wrong time can do that or he simply did not aim, canted bow, or made a bad shot. I was hoping for his sake it was an angling shot. It simply appears the shot was muffed. I didn't watch it close enough to see if we could diagnose, but the bow did appear to have a slight cant, and there is the ever possible at the shto he dropped his arm to try to see the hit... which you NEVER do if you have any sense... it would get you what he got given the angle of the bear and such.

2nd shot, very hard for me to tell but the archer was hard left, bear hard right, and would think that one would have to enter to the back, to angle to the front someowhat. Regardless it sure seemed like it encountered way too much resistance for a gut shot.

And yes, even with all the stuff they got away with that was stupid, filming and such.... it was probably not the movement but very much so the bears nose that gave it the outcome it did.

I was impressed that the guide hollered, or someone did anyway, but at that point, shoot.... he's wounded and who cares at this point. I'd rather him have 2 bullets in him than a warning and one.

Unwounded bear different story by a bit to me.

Hollering at bears is wasted effort IMO&E. Perhaps wounded ones are more responsive, but I doubt it.

It broke my Pucker Factor meter !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Took a lot of restraint not to shoot sooner........I would not have waited that long & would have been using a 458.

MM

I bet I'd win and I'd bet wounded are LESS responsive. LOL.

More I think about this, I"d like to know more about the hunter etc..... a bowhunter waiting out a 10 foot plus bear, I"d be willing to bet I'd take ANY legal brown with a bow. In the right situation.

Waiting a big one out, you either have lots of time and money on your hands and spend many seasons working on it, or you will be pushing the envelope.

Here's a few observations from my point of view;

1. The first shot was a miss, if it had been a hit the bear would have reacted the same way it did to the second shot. I my experience bears ALWAYS react to a hit.
It would not continue beach combing.

2. The second bear reacted to the first bears body language when it was hit with the arrow and skedaddled.

3. The bear very obviously hit their scent cone when it turned and came at them.

4. The camera man had to stand more erect in order to see the bear over the hunters shoulders which made him more visible to the bear once it turned on the scent cone. The bear was zeroed in on him during the charge.

5. The guide made every effort to let the bear walk away and die from the bow shot although I'm pretty sure it would have taken quite awhile for it to die unless he got lucky and got the liver.

6. The guide saved the camera man from a potentially fatal mauling with a very good shot, only a brain or spine shot would have stopped that charge that quickly.

Of course I wasn't there but these things seem obvious to me, and anybody that would critique these guys actions hasn't been in many real life hunting situations before because things don't often go perfectly as planned.

The camera showing the charge was a GoPro mounted on the bottom side of the forearm of the guide's rifle. The bear looked to be focused on the guide at that point.

I am not convinced the bow shot was bad... the angle looked to me like it was an attempt at slipping one behind the ribs and angled forward but did not penetrate as much as it could have.

Similar to my take. I'd be easily convinced that the second arrow hit bone in the off leg/shoulder, failed to penetrate said bone and rebounded towards to the entry. Not being there makes it more difficult to assess, but I gotta believe that from the guide's angle he was satisfied with the shot and that it was a dead bear walking. I see that from the fact he clearly felt no need to shoot until that was the only option suspecting the arrow to sort the bear rather quickly.

For my part, it made an interesting video, and I can easily see how it could've gone south. Otherwise its a testimony to an experienced, prepared, and cool headed guide. Pretty obvious that the guide had been around more than a couple of bears (and bear hunters). Makes me look forward to May.....

I have to disagree, Mark. For a bear in doubt, or uncertain, I have found screeching at them to be more effective than a gunshot into the dirt . Of course, this is based on an experience of one each. In the case of the gunshot, the bear then responded favorably to voluminously cussing, as well.

So that goes 2 for 0 in my experience, but you have probably had more close encounters of the turd kind than I.

I don't doubt that a bear of that size would probably have reacted by disappearing had it been unwounded. But based on my experience with the bears we have out on the west side - largely unhabituated to people-animals, hollering as well as gunfire for the sake of noise is not very reliable as a method of warding off bears. That's not to say I blame the guide but I have had exactly zero results in trying to sound large and mean when bears have approached or been roused nearby. IOW, I wouldn't attempt a warning shot either. I did spray a bear's legs one time with rock particles when he approached way too close and didn't appear to be done 'examining' us. (That was after we - there were two of us- both tried to make as much noise as we possibly could vocally.) I already knew that rocks or water near a bear were the best hope for bullet placement short of poking the animal, and I figured I probably had only one opportunity if I tried to poke him in the very dim light- he was too close to get two shots, very likely, so I decided to gamble on the 'spray and pray' method. (Bears have consistently shown an aversion to having 300 grain slugs- regardless of their source- splattered against rocks or boulders in their immediate vicinity. )

Bears are individuals, are as encounters. And different localities may mean different re-actons as a mean.

A wounded bear I expect is all predictions on off. Do't have any experience on that level with griz/brown.

As for the blacks, the only one that gave me hesitation- I ate him....

LOL! I still remember that tidbit being pointed out to Dewey. Good times.

yikes, that was close! Thanks for sharing the video, and CONGRATS on an awesome brute!

dave

After watching this several more times and stop/starting it at the first shot, it looks pretty clear to me that the first arrow went right through the bears stomach. You can clearly see the bear hump up as the arrow hits it. Why it didn't go apeshit is beyond me. You can only catch it when you slow it down. That would make sense looking at the hole in its gut (exit side) when it is laying there. The second shot looks like it might have hit something hard as others have suggested and was broken off. You can see the lumenok fall away as the shaft is snapped. Anybody see this?

I kind of wondered about that as well. Actually, a surgical hole in the stomach might actually have been why there was no more reaction than what he shows; (maybe just thunk it was a touch of indigestion commonly associated with eating botulinum laden beachus corpii. )

I saw the hump typical of a deer gut shot with an arrow.

That even looks worse though on the dead bear.. looks more like intestines to me but could be stomach, typically stomach does not come out of a wound that small though.

Regardless the first shot was still not good. For whatever reason but I"m enough convinced that the 2nd shot was not bad.

Wind was teh end culprit. If you don't watch it, in this case it could literally bite you.

I did not pay enough attention to appx time of day vs an expected wind shift.

RE reaction to a gut hit. Typically there isn't much reaction to arrows actually from what I"ve seen with over 100 bow kills over the years. They sometimes only flinch the skin and keep on doing whatever until they fall over or all of a sudden get weak from blood loss and make a short wobbly dash... sometimes its full on get out of dodge.

Gut hits typically evidently don't fell that well as most animals go less than 100 yards and bed down. But they must not scream in pain either and there is generally no mad dash.

Wow, you guys sure like to analyze this!

It's November. My hunting is over for the year, trout fishing is hanging on by a thread, permits are in for next year, I have nothing left. Don't judge me.

Ummm�bears are all snoozing soundly at this point�..well, mostly. Moose season is 2 months past��not enough snow yet for caribou��not inclined toward "Price is Right"�..

Its fun to me, to try to see what happened... lucked that we were videoing once... I shot a doe... and entry looked heartish... as I was aiming.

Blood said liver. WTF?

Video upon final getting it to frame by frame in the camphouse..... showed her kicking as arrow hit... deflecting it out the liver sure enough....

Had we not seen video before we trailed... it would have been confusing.

Had video been shot from other side.... some would say I'd have gut shot her.. I'd have known in my mind what I saw on my side....

Our general season elk hunts start this coming Friday, We still have 2 rifle deer seasons left. Archery deer starts middle of December- still plenty to do here. Come on down!

Hmm, I wonder how my wife would like it if I put some cash and CC on the table and told her I would be home for Christmas?

WOW. Great vid. That guide has some serious composure.

I was surprised to see that it dropped in its tracks. What was he using, or was it mostly a function of where he shot it?

Pucker for sure.

damn sure wasn't what he was using in that situation. It was shot placement.

Though we can safely assume what he was using probably wasn't all that small.

But that stop is CNS totally and only.

Looking down on a bear's back it is pretty easy to find centerline and hold for the forehead and accept anything aft in a straight line...

Much harder to shoot them under the chin...

Because they cut away at the shot and pile-up I suspect the bear was not DOA. Which is perfect as the third blinker in the forehead is frowned upon by most taxidermists. I think he hit it in the leading edge of the hump. Spined.

tis evident you've never seen me practice my lil Joe Cartwright moves


always wondered why Hoss never told lil Joe "yaknow lil buddy that gun will fire while you're standing up, ya don't have to roll on the ground every time you wanna shoot something"

An unsuccessful stick and string hunt, salvaged with a rifle.

I hunted with the guide and his brother last month, great guys had a ton of fun. His bear rifle is a 375h&h and they are huge fans of the TSX for all calibers and game. Luke is a heck of a guy and a good guide, he told me to apply for a fall bear tag and hope for snow. Said he loves it when he gets a younger guy who's in shape because he likes to get on a good sized track on snowshoes if the snow is deep enough, and run them down. In his words, " if there's snow and you're in shape, they can't escape". And from what I saw in the short time I stayed with them deer hunting he is a dang good shot with a rifle, though after seeing this video I can understand why guiding bow hunters isn't his favorite pastime.

For brown /grizzlies half the time time they seem to be surprised themselves by their next move... A goodly portion of them might be schizophrenic.

I bet the bow hunter is grateful the pro hunter stopped playing with the range finder?

If I can hit it with a brick, I would hazard a guess I don't need a range finder.

Ready: Jack O'Connor once said women and bears alike because neither of them know what they're going to do next..

Aussie, LOL, that's what I said!! WTF is the rangefinder for???

To blind the bear maybe?

Yes, I noticed this too. It was very close!

FWIW on the rangefinder, cameras dont' always show what is reality, RE could have been furhter or closer..

but remember a few yards makes a difference in arrow impact..... how many of you can guess it to a yard or two or would prefer a confirmation, especially with dangerous game?

Ain't arguing, just saying.....

It doesn't really matter when you shoot em in the guts. He should have paid more attention to wind drift and lead on a moving bear than distance at that range.

No it doesn't but it could make a difference. Hence you need to know all the factors.

If wind drifted that arrow that far, then distance was an issue that needed to be known also, and may have been further than he thought, hence the low hit.

Had he hit him high enough in the guts he could have cut a LARGE artery..... not that he was or should have been aiming high IMHO.

I know Luke and his brother Josh and they are both good guides with a lifetime of experience dealing with large bears. I am anxious to ask him about the yelling part but my guess is that it was simply an instinctive reaction as that is how we normally deal with close range bears.

Certainly makes better video that way! (I'm sure that was foremost in his mind in the moment!! )

Might have been making sure the entourage was paying attention.

I have talked to a few of them. Only one time it didn't work and these were big black bears. Can't imagine being that close to a bear that big and pizzed off!

Where'd they get the excavator?

They managed to get the bear whole on the boat and then ran it back to their lodge to unload it. An excavator at a remote lodge is a very cool thing...

Must have been quite a project getting a 1400 lb. bear on the boat.

This past spring IdahoPro and I had all we could do to roll a smaller bear just once to get it on the open beach... But they could bring the boat up fairly close and use it to tow it off the beach.

I'm thinking of Letterman's "will it float" bits.