Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Elk Hunter Shot In Face!

This has to be near the top in the running for Dumbest Post of the Year...

Sad story but it's the wolves fault? Hunting pressure had nothing to do with to why the elk were there? You got all those hunters lined around a fence line. Do wolves stop at fences like the hunters? Years ago talking to a game warden with a ranch hand in colorado. The warden was parked high on a hill overlooking the same kind of situation. Elk on private property and hunters up and down the fence line. The warden said to the ranch hand,"don't let those elk get off the property. If they do we'll have a cluster f**k". And that's what they had in Mt a cluster f**k. A wolf didn't pull that trigger a careless did.

Please excuse momentary hijack. Ironic to me is that those who routinely have access and hunt those ranches claim that their public land hunts were their easiest hunts ever.

A little more to your point - talked to a manager of a large ranch who said they would be safe here throughout all hunting seasons if they stayed. He said they never do.

Check the "wolverine thread" down in trapping for it's competitors.

Exactly.

I don't understand how wolves pushed the elk onto a private ranch. Wolves don't follow property lines. If the food was there, wouldn't the wolves mosey on down and eat on the ranch land? What makes more sense to me is that the elk were avoiding the hunters that do follow the property lines.

If I am wrong or my logic is flawed please let me know.

Micky
You are correct. If there are hunters on the private land, there are going to be a lot less than on public land, and they are generally non resident hunters looking for trophy elk, and are not too interested in shooting wolves. Also, it wouldn't take the wolves long to figure out they could miss ALL the hunters by going nocturnal.
All summer, VarmintGuy was claiming that seeing thousands of elk on farmers fields was proof that the wolves have decimated the elk herds. Nobody could seem to convince him that if there are thousands of elk around, they haven't been wiped out.

So now wolves are shooting elk hunters in the face?

Yer' killin' me here, VG.........


Casey

Amazing how those wolves respect no trespassing signs.

Seems to me the outrage here should be placed squarely on the criminal stupidity of a negligent shooter - note I did not say "hunter". The human behavior displayed in this incident was outrageous!

Yup, I believe that elk there may be avoiding wolves and other hunters. Yup, I know too well and too personally what it is like hunting in competition with wolves (and amidst griz, as well). Yup, I know that the elk where Canadian wolves were transplanted to have seriously changed their behavior patterns. But such changes are no excuse for inexcusable negligence. And dang it, here in WY they robbed me of an opportunity to practice population control on those wolves by yanking tags this year. With the plentitude of wolf tracks in the elk woods, surely I ought to be able to get a shot - if only I had a tag.

Notice how this herd of elk got shot at, and then went back onto the safe ground?

Fuggin' wolves.. someone needs to take their guns away.

Meanwhile, VarmintGuy lost out on a major sale of rimfire ammo because he was posting on the Campfire when he should have been driving around western Montana looking in all the stores. A friend was recently in Missoula and one store was putting out piles of .22 Long Rifles.

I also have it on good authority that the wolves we got from Canada were a pure wilderness strain that refuses to enter private land.

Knowing VG, if it were a hundred boxes for sale, it would be described as "thousands"..

In southeastern British Columbia we complain about the incursion of Montana wolves. Strangely, they don't seem to be pushing the elk on to private land here; at least not on to my land. Perhaps some welcome signs would help.
A few years back, many of the ramchers put up (subsidized) eight foot fences to keep elk out of their hayfields. Prior to this, a field adjacent to my place was a popular spot for "hunting" elk. So popular, in fact, that it was hunted day and night. There were times when there would be upwards of a half dozen hunters surrounding that field waiting for the elk to come in. I would not have been in the least surprised if someone had been hit in the crossfire. Now, with the elk fences in place and a liberal cow/calf season for the last half dozen years, the field is a much quieter and safer place. The range is still a bit overgrazed in spite of a 70% reduction in elk numbers but there appears to be no explanation for this. The reduction in elk numbers is easily explained though; it's those Montana wolves! GD

Not exactly, the guy got shot in the face because one of Travis' retard "range buddies" flung a slug in his general direction, and because the woundee was stupid enough to be there in the first place. As dumb as the shooter was though, apparently he was smart enough to stuff the proper ammo into his rifle.

I'm sure the whole lot has minnesota DNA

Typically private property is that terrain which was more conducive to settlement during the homestead era. That means it is usually flatter and more accessible to motorized vehicles than is USFS. And a rancher can drive his ATV anywhere he likes on his private property.

Cattlemen patrol private lands for wolves and they are shot on sight year round.

Wolves quickly learn where it is safe to tread and where it is not.

Elk quickly learn where to go to avoid wolves.

I have been hunting unit 32A in Idaho since 1960. The particular area of USFS we hunt has been devoid of wolves until this year. We have been very successful for deer and elk just off the ridges and in the high terrain for over fifty years.

But this season, the wolves had gotten into this area, and they have dogged the elk herds off of the mountains.

One local fellow watched through his spotting scope opening morning as guest hunters on low lying private property wounded four bulls and allowed them to escape over a ridgeline, And those hunters managed to harvest fourteen bulls.

On any typical year the elk would not have been in those low areas in any significant numbers until the high country had become inaccessible due to snow depth.

It has been stated by people more knowledgeable than I, that a wolf will average one elk kill per week. On top of that, calving rates drop significantly in an elk herd which is being harassed by wolves.

Elk populations which had been growing steadily since the '40s in Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming, are now in decline. Hunter success rates have declined in all three states. And long time successful guide service businesses have been bankrupted.

Thank you very much Dr Hornocker, and the liberal agenda which led to the introduction of the Canadian Grey Wolf to our environments.

Take_a_pee has a new user name.. How many is this now?

Idaho Shooter,

Elk have been migrating to non- or limited-hunting ranches in this particular valley in Montana for years, long before wolves moved into the area a few years ago. And wolves are still very uncommon on the east side of the valley, where most of the "low country elk" have always shown up.

Two years ago I hunted a ranch in the next valley over, where a pack of wolves had been hanging out for more than a year. It was the second week of the rifle season and a big park at the TOP of the ranch (not down in the valley) was where a bunch of elk had been "hiding" since bow season. They stayed right in that area, for the several days four of us hunted the ranch. We saw the wolf pack on the second day, very near where we killed two of our elk, before and after we saw the pack. (Unfortunately, we didn't get a shot at the wolves.)

The elk were on the ranch because the south and west sides border public land, within half an hour of what passes for a big town in Montana, and the public land was crawling with hunters. Those elk were willing to put up with a pack of eight wolves and four human hunters, rather than risk the bunches of public-land hunters off the ranch.

There are a bunch of factors affecting how elk habits have changed over the past half-century, but wolves are only one. From what I've seen, less hunting access to many ranches, plus more hunting pressure on public land, often have far more effect than wolves.

there is no doubt that wolves have affected elk numbers in certain areas. the east and west fork of the bitterroot are good examples, as is the gardiner herd in the park. But in many areas the elk simply stay on private ground because they don't get hunting preasure. And what is on those private fields? Green, irrigated alfalfa long into the late fall. When everything else is dry and brown these fields are still green. Back east I think they call these a food plot. The quality of most elk hunters has sadly declined as well. Many are lazy and won't get away from the truck. They sit and look at elk on private ground, hoping the elk will leave and they can drive to them. They are usually back home for dinner an hour before dark. Then they wonder why they didn't get one.

John, I realize my experiences represent a microcosm of elk habitat. And I can only report what happened in this area. But I am intimately familiar with this microcosm.

Hunting pressure has not changed significantly over the last ten years. The private property onto which the herd moved this year has been owned by JR Simplot for over forty years and been locked off from the public for that time. And I find it interesting that the elk herd moved onto the valley floor this year long before rifle season opened.

Fifteen hundred feet in elevation below us the terrain is laced with old logging roads, all open to ATV and vehicular traffic. Usually the high hunting pressure in that area pushes elk up the mountain, not down.

I have not seen archery hunters, or the few hunters with early rifle/cow tags move the herds in years past.

We hunt an area of about six sq miles, a four hour horse back ride from the nearest road. The only way in is by foot or horse. Very few foot hunters will work hard enough to climb this high. In five days at camp we only saw three other hunters as they passed through, making a day ride; and one man on foot.

We had fresh mud the first day in which to observe tracks and new snow on two subsequent days. In an area which has been home to more than thirty head of elk in years past, this year we saw tracks of four individuals widely separated and brushed up.

But for the first time ever, in this area, we encountered wolf tracks. And wolf tracks were omnipresent throughout the six sq miles.

I wish I had taken my Foxpro FX-3 in the horse pack, we might have been able to reduce the predator population. My buddy called for a while with a rabbit call. And judging from the squawking of magpies in the canyon below us, a wolf did respond. He circled down wind of us and then the magpies squawked all the way back up the canyon as (apparently) the wolf returned back the way he had come.