Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting Long Range Hunting Rifle/Sight In/Load Development

I need something to keep me occupied this winter and am toying with the idea of setting up a rifle in my gun safe as a designated long range shooter. I understand that "long range" is subjective to the individual so for the sake of this discussion I guess that I would consider five to six hundred yards "long range". The subject rifle is a new and unfired Weatherby Vanguard in 7mmRem Mag. I wish to maintain carrying weight but it won't be used for "mountain" hunting. In fact I may never hunt it but wish to keep that option open. Please give your thoughts on what adjustments you would make in the rifle and how you would develop loads for it. I am in an area that the longest range distance is 300 yards. One of the first things that I plan on doing is to work up a couple of loads to see if the gun has possibilities that would warrant putting money into it for the "project". I have some Hornady 154 grain BTSP to get me started. I'm sure that there are things that will need to be added to the discussion that those who are kind enough to help me out would need to know. So I welcome further questions and opinions/advice. Thanks.

Winter projects are my favorite kinda' projects... Here's what I would do.


1. Determine if your rifle has the requisite magazine latitude, and twist rate to shoot the heavier, high BC bullets. In a 7mm Rem, I'd want at least 3.45" of COAL to play with. A 1-9.5" or faster should work twist.

2. Put an SWFA 10x42 SS on top of it, in Talleys or whatever you want to use for rings.

3. Pick a bullet other than a 154 BTSP; you're hamstringing it with that bullet. I shoot 168 VLDs, but there are a multitude of good 7mm bullets out there... 162s, 168s, 180s...

4. Pick a powder, and buy a bunch of it. Something like '22, '25, 7828, Retumbo, H-1000, Ramshot Magnum....

5. Find where your pressure is at, and start messing with seating depth there. It took me a total of 7 rounds to find an a great load with my newest 7mm Rem Mag, using a chronograph and knowing where I wanted to stop velocity-wise.

Mass produce your final load and shoot the hell out of it. You'll be wanting to shoot a lot further once you see a well set up 7 Rem Mag at 600 yards.

Tanner

That's a great LR chambering and a solid rifle. I wouldn't adjust anything other than getting the trigger worked on, to a nice crisp 2-lb. (or so) pull, and a good bedding job.

A good LR bullet is the 162 grain Amax; better than the 154. I'd start with that bullet.

Assuming it shoots, the next things to look at are solid scope mounts and the scope itself. For those ranges you don't need high magnification; (IMHO) 9X or 10X at the top of the range is fine. But you do want a scope with repeatable elevation adjustments.

Could you give me some details on this? If you change bullet seating depths, won't that change the pressure? Maybe I need a primer on this. I fully admit that my handloading has always been to find a mild load that gives good accuracy. I am assuming that you are talking about running loads at max pressure. I guess I'm pretty ignorant about fine tuning my handloads for max speed. I was just going to use the 154 Hornady bullets to see if long range accuracy will even be possible with this rifle and to get it on paper.

Sure. I'm not the greatest handloader in the world either, but I have gotten it down to what works for me in the shortest period of time. I don't bother shooting 3 shot groups at .5gr increments from minimum to maximum like some do, I think that's a waste of time and components.

Instead, I load up a "pressure ladder"- I pick a charge between book minimum and book max, or whatever Quickload tells me is safe, and start there. I load ONE round at that charge, ONE round at .5gr heavier, and so on, until I hit my "max" charge. I shoot all of those rounds (usually 6-8 total rounds) at the same target at 100 yards, and evaluate the group. That group will tell you if that bullet/primer/powder combo will shoot, at least in my experience. Make sure to shoot that group over a chronograph.

As for seating depth, I usually start at 0, meaning right snuggled up to the lands or .005" off. It's worked for me thus far.

I don't think you've got a bad idea using the 154s to get on paper, but I do think it would be wise to start at the start and begin your development with a bullet more suited to your goals.

Tanner

Thanks for the clarification. Appreciate it very much.

Sportdog, as mentioned above, you are starting with a good solid platform. I've seen several modern Vanguards shoot 1/2" groups out of the box with good factory ammo, such as the Nosler Custom. The SWFA's Tanner mentioned are a good value, or if funds are plentiful you could step up to a Leupold Mk4 LR/T. The 4.5-14x is a good, multi-purpose magnification range for a LR rig. As for the trigger, if you want to upgrade to a Timney it takes about 2 screws and 2 minutes and to swap it out.

As for load development, here's the basic order.

Always start with the longer OAL you may use. In this case that would be just off the lands, or at magazine length, which ever is longer.

Now not all bullets and powder like each other, so I usually pick one, or the other, and find the partner it likes. Since you do not seen to have a large supply of either, I'd start with the bullet, and find the powder to match.

I assume you plan to hunt with this rifle, so for bullets, this is where I would start:

http://www.shootersproshop.com/nosl...nd-long-range-7mm-168gr-blems-100ct.html

As for Powders, all Tanner mentioned have great potential for your purpose. Start with any of those you have on the shelf. Start low, and work up. Whether you choose to use traditional groups or the ladder method is a matter of taste, and up to you. When you find a powder you bullets like, then you can buy a bunch of it.

Part of you method of load work up will depend on the availability of resources, such as how many powders you have on your shelf, and distance to the range. If it's close or just about the back door, load up a 3-5 at minimum with each usable powder you have on the shelf an d give each a try. Take which ever produces the best group and work up with that powder.

When you come to the primary load development stage, the rule is work up, then work in. Work up with your powder charge until you find your node, or max pressure, then work in with your over all length (OAL). Decreasing your OAL reduced your overall pressure (yes there are competing forces when reducing OAL but the net effect is a reduced OAL reduces pressure). I typically reduce OAL in .05" increments. Keep in mind it's nowt alway necessary to monkey with OAL. Reducing OAL is typically most effective when your groups are showing 2 in, and one out, or you are splitting groups. Increasing OAL often helps when you have an even dispersion but needs to be pulled in. But since we are starting an our MAX OAL, if you are not splitting groups we leave OAL alone.

Now the above play book works well with TRADITIONALLY DESIGNED BULLETS. If you are load developing for mono's (especially Barnes), or VLD's (especially Bergers), you've stepped into the realm of the Finicky Princess Beauty Queens, in which case your new order is, Multiple powders, OAL, in .1", or even .2" increments, and and then work up to max pressure.

1. throw a real scope on there that is designed for long range.

2. find a load your rifle likes. I usually find that if it still shoots tight at 200, then you are good to go out further.



PS, overall velocity is overrated. Find a load your gun likes. You make up for any lack in velocity with your turret anyway. Unless your load is an absolute dog, don't keep chasing some theoretical speed.

These guys have you on the right track. As you work up through the charges as Tanner mentioned, somewhere in there your vertical dispersion will come together. That's the "node" AS speaks of. I too start with the bullets "kissing" the lands if the mag allows and haven't had much trouble finding the sweet spot close to that. Most everything I own gets the VLD type bullets seated within .005" either way of the lands except my 7 WSM. It likes Berger 168 and AMaxes .025" off.

Like Tanner said.... Shoot, reload... And shoot some more.

Excellent way to develop your loads without wasting a lot of barrel life nor components.

Alan

http://www.longrangehunting.com/for...detailed-article-video-42881/index3.html

Just be prepared to be frustrated if you are trying to find a tight load with Bergers. Nothing like having to bury a dead can in the graveyard at midnight just to get them to shoot. Look at Scenars or Hornadys if you want the easiest path.

easiest would be to sell and get a remingoton long range. put a 6.5-20 leup on what ever you shoot. load some 162 horn or 168 berger . 030 off the lands. h-1000. WLRM. start shooting soon. sooner you shoot the sooner you will know.

Sport dog- for you are trying to accomplish weight is an advantage. if you want to try the vanguard; put a scope of decent power and try it. rem long range better, or sendero.