Could someone put a bullet in the head of the ethanol farce and get this friggin pipeline built? We can drop food prices and gas prices at the same time.
Keystone offers: 1. An opportunity to be a good neighbor, and help a stalwart ally access other foreign markets. As well as a proven and ready supply for the US should instability in other parts of the world put a pinch on foreign supply. 2. An opportunity to put ~10% of Baaken production into the pipeline instead of the rail lines, with the opportunity for expansion as well. 3. An opportunity to free up rail lines to help move other commodities. Many ag producers and/or their elevators/marketers are seeing significant lag times to move product and are either paying a premium to ship or are piling corn and beans on the ground because they just plain can't store it all. At present I sit not 300yds from a corn pile sitting on the ground (vs. in an elevator or bin) big enough to fill every corn flinger in TX enough times to feed every deer and exotic all winter long. 4. Jobs, yes many of them are temporary to the construction phase but there is also permanent/ongoing monitoring, maintenance, and repairs. 5. Once in place, and now I'm spitballing, perhaps another pipeline occupying the same geography could be added to move more nat'l gas and ultimately improve/stabilize our nat'l electrical power grid. Baaken oil is still flaring off 26% of the bi-product nat'l gas, like a giant bic lighter all day, all night. One would think that capturing that and using it to heat water, make steam, and turn turbines is a far better use than just wasting it.
I can walk on water.......................but I do stagger a bit on alcohol.
Could someone put a bullet in the head of the ethanol farce and get this friggin pipeline built? We can drop food prices and gas prices at the same time.
As well as minimize the farce of short-supply diesel in corn country every spring and every fall. The petroleum marketers talk about how demand outstrips their best estimates every fall due to increased production acres. They need to buy some data from the crop ins. industry so that they know what to have and where to have it all fall long. 87 10% eth. gasoline is ~$2.70-$2.80 here and plain old #2 diesel is over $4. It's getting to the point that even the most stalwart supply and demand conservatives think the regionalized seasonal shortages story is BS. IMO, the oil Co's. are playing a dangerous game that's going to potentially cost them their ability to price the market on their own. Plant shut-downs/turnarounds during the 3 big summer travel weekends and fall harvest creating shortages of gasoline, diesel, and last winter propane ain't gonna fly too many more times no matter what party is in power in DC.
Let's get serious for a minute, the SOB's cost me an extra $250-$300 every hunting season with this "regionalized shortage" diesel BS.
Last edited by horse1; 11/21/14.
I can walk on water.......................but I do stagger a bit on alcohol.
I understand the oil is headed for export, and Canadian oil companies get the profits.
luv2safari; Top of the morning to you sir, thanks for supplying the interesting read for those of us who suffer from insomnia and such.
While I realize it's bucking a time honored 'Fire tradition, I have actually read the entire thread - twice now in fact - and thought that since it's still way too dark for me to head up the mountain behind our house to chase whitetail I'd type out a wee bit of Canuck perspective in case anyone is interested.
So first off I'm personally not aware of any oil company that is entirely owned by Canadians or perhaps better said where all the profits remain here. There appears to be joint ownership/partnering in all I've got investments with anyway and they are typically US partnerships so that money isn't travelling too, too far.
When you good folks had your election and whomever it was made the announcement about the Keystone vote, all the media up here immediately slithered over to Calgary to get a sound bite from someone high up in the Canadian oil industry.
Basically all of them said something like - "while that's nice to hear, we're not holding our breath for a quick resolution."
They all went on to say that Canadian oil exports into the US have been rising steadily in the time since all the Keystone talk began - whenever that was 5-6 years back now - and that while some of it is flowing south through other expanded pipelines most is traveling by rail now through the US heartland.
If anyone believes rail is safer than a pipeline, please read this link and then get back to us.
As I've said before on similar threads, we are going to continue working our oil patch - "pulling dragons from the ground" as Corb Lund would say. It's one of the main drivers of our economy up here so we have to - no question there for us.
Where it goes and who gets some residual benefit from it is honestly a secondary consideration for the oil producers.
Anyway I'll leave you with Corb's ode to our patch crew.
Not building the pipeline insures large campaign contributions
Oil train after train rumble by the farm and through town all the time.
It's difficult for the local elevators to get a train because of all the increased oil traffic.
What blows my mind is the fact that the enviro wannabees would rather see countless oil trains travel through Glacier Park rather than go down a pipeline.
Hmmm.
And Buffet invested how many hundred of millions of dollars in the last year or two in ND rail infrastructure? Not to menetion talk of building a double track across the hi-line.
Dwayne, Thanks for the video link. Enjoyed that. Looked like a bunch of guys working, paying taxes, and I imagine shareholders and companies making profits. Works for me. Now go kill a whitetail!
And my favorite; It pisses of the the democrats, so on that issue alone, we need to build it.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
Oil train after train rumble by the farm and through town all the time.
It's difficult for the local elevators to get a train because of all the increased oil traffic.
What blows my mind is the fact that the enviro wannabees would rather see countless oil trains travel through Glacier Park rather than go down a pipeline.
Hmmm.
And Buffet invested how many hundred of millions of dollars in the last year or two in ND rail infrastructure? Not to menetion talk of building a double track across the hi-line.
You nailed it homie, and the fact that these goofballs can spin a pipeline into an environmental hazard (Vs. road and rail)is unbelievable and just another testiment to the stupidity of liberals.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
Oh, no, Sam O, the tofuniks here in Whitefish are screaming their lungs out about oil cans going by. While driving to the meetings where they scream, of course. KXL makes sense because the oil is heavy and the Gulf Coast can handle heavy goo (Venezuela). The bonus is keeping jobs and running out the life on existing refineries in the South while smoothing out the market as noted above. The oil cans are not going away, however. There is a flexibility aspect to crude haul by rail, as it can be diverted or re-routed or started up much more easily with less commitment that digging a trench. KXL will mitigate the rail crunch, but not break Warren. What WILL break Warren's butt is a nice big flaming wreck in the worst possible spot. That said, Megantic was an anomaly. I doubt there's ever going to be another single-man oil can train tied off on top of a hill. Ed Burkhardt learned he can only cut costs so much....
Up hills slow, Down hills fast Tonnage first and Safety last.
I understand the oil is headed for export, and Canadian oil companies get the profits.
Ha...you understand wrong. It is illegal for oil to be exported from the United States. Refined products...yes. Do you have a problem with things that are made here being sold abroad for profit?
Not at all, and there was no implication of that. I'm not up on the full implications of Keystone and was asking those closer to the oil industry just what it will accomplish in total.
Most of the concern/hype in the press is it's a vehicle for foreign oil through the USA.
Even if it were all going abroad, it would help us, since it would add product to the world's supply and keep prices in check. And, "profit" has never been a four-letter-word, IMO.
The jist of my question was what happens to the oil? I also realize we can't export our oil, but can we export refined products?
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
Not building the pipeline insures large campaign contributions
Oil train after train rumble by the farm and through town all the time.
It's difficult for the local elevators to get a train because of all the increased oil traffic.
What blows my mind is the fact that the enviro wannabees would rather see countless oil trains travel through Glacier Park rather than go down a pipeline.
Hmmm.
And Buffet invested how many hundred of millions of dollars in the last year or two in ND rail infrastructure? Not to menetion talk of building a double track across the hi-line.
That explains a LOT!
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
On a macro level, supply and demand. Alternative sources that can deliver volume keep prices down. Oil is bouncing around $75 rather than way over $100. Is it coincidence that the Saudis have the Cartel price down around the minimum economic price for tar sands oil? Don't forget the premium speculators threw in for political instability in the Middle East.
The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh
On a macro level, supply and demand. Alternative sources that can deliver volume keep prices down. Oil is bouncing around $75 rather than way over $100. Is it coincidence that the Saudis have the Cartel price down around the minimum economic price for tar sands oil? Don't forget the premium speculators threw in for political instability in the Middle East.
Actually the Saudi's were considering a price war in an attempt to drive oil price below the economic price level required for new US Fracking wells. If they do, we could see $2.00 gas again. In such a scenario we could hear the Ruskies and Iranian's squealing all the way over here.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Oh, no, Sam O, the tofuniks here in Whitefish are screaming their lungs out about oil cans going by. While driving to the meetings where they scream, of course. KXL makes sense because the oil is heavy and the Gulf Coast can handle heavy goo (Venezuela). The bonus is keeping jobs and running out the life on existing refineries in the South while smoothing out the market as noted above. The oil cans are not going away, however. There is a flexibility aspect to crude haul by rail, as it can be diverted or re-routed or started up much more easily with less commitment that digging a trench. KXL will mitigate the rail crunch, but not break Warren. What WILL break Warren's butt is a nice big flaming wreck in the worst possible spot. That said, Megantic was an anomaly. I doubt there's ever going to be another single-man oil can train tied off on top of a hill. Ed Burkhardt learned he can only cut costs so much....
no oil trains aint going to go away, as you say they have their place but we should not be shipping as much as we are out by train....when its phuggin with our food(elevators ability to get trains) there is a problem that needs addressing....been a fair number of derailings within a couple hundred miles either side of me within the last 24 months and its just luck they havent been oil cans
A serious student of the "Armchair Safari" always looking for Africa/Asia hunting books
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