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I have an itch for a lightweight deer/coyote/occasional rock chuck rifle. Of the standard calibers .308, 7mm/08, 243 is there one that performs better out of a 20" barrel than the others? Along the same lines do slightly faster powders work a bit better than standard powders for a short barrel? Thanks.
Last edited by centershot; 11/21/14.
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I'd say the .308 would lose the least per inch. I've not had a 7-08, but have owned long and short versions of the other two. The short-barrel .308 velocity was closer to the long barrel version than the .243 was.
The same powders that result in the highest speed in a long barrel will do so in a short barrel.
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For reference of the point Vic so aptly stated, here a link to hodgdon powders. http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/The charm? Set the filter to your cartridge, say, .308 Win. and compare notes under rifle and PISTOL categories. In pistol, .308 Win is mostly shot in 14,5" barrels and the powders that gave the best rifle length performance (Varget, BL-2 (?)) are still the best. Thanks, mathman, for the tip.
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Centershot,
In general, the more overbore a cartridge is, the more it benefits from a longer barrel. Of the 3 you mentioned, I'd expect the .308 to least degradation in performance due to a shortened barrel.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
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How far will you be shooting game?
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I had a 20" bll Ruger 77 UL (ultra lite) and it gave velocities on the heels or equal to 22" ers.
The smaller the caliber the MORE vel (speed) is lost on shorter barrels has been my experience.
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For deer, coyote, chuck I'd go .243 without the slightest hesitation. If .223 was on the list I'd have to flip a coin to choose between it and the .243. The .308 and 7-08 wouldn't be in the running.
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Centershot,
In general, the more overbore a cartridge is, the more it benefits from a longer barrel. Of the 3 you mentioned, I'd expect the .308 to least degradation in performance due to a shortened barrel. + 1
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Faster powders do not give better velocity in shorter barrels. The 308 will lose the least velocity per inch of barrel. I thought about telling you what I want but answered your questions instead.  Shod
Last edited by Shodd; 11/21/14.
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The 308 will probably give up the least speed of the 3 with short barrels but for the animals you mentioned I would look hard at a 243.
What mathman said about powder burn rates has been true in my experience
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Now which one will hurt your ears more out of a short barrel?
I recall a Ruger compact in .308 that I bought the boy. It had a 16.5" barrel. That somebitch was loud.
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A two inch barrel length Velocity difference between any of the short action cartridges is going to be negligible. You are talking mabe 10 fps at the most from most to least. With 100, 140 or 150 gr bullets, all have velocities in the 2850 fps range. Think we are talking nits.
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I've run an 18.5 and a 20 inch in 243. I would not do the short one again (too loud/blast/recoil). The 20 inch seems just fine.
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A two inch barrel length Velocity difference between any of the short action cartridges is going to be negligible. You are talking mabe 10 fps at the most from most to least. With 100, 140 or 150 gr bullets, all have velocities in the 2850 fps range. Think we are talking nits. The difference is closer to 40 fps in a .308, and 100 fps in something like a .270 Winchester.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
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A two inch barrel length Velocity difference between any of the short action cartridges is going to be negligible. You are talking mabe 10 fps at the most from most to least. With 100, 140 or 150 gr bullets, all have velocities in the 2850 fps range. Think we are talking nits. The difference is closer to 40 fps in a .308, and 100 fps in something like a .270 Winchester. When did the 270 come in to be compared? I was comparing short action cartridges from 243, 708 and 308.
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I've run an 18.5 and a 20 inch in 243. I would not do the short one again (too loud/blast/recoil). The 20 inch seems just fine. +1 my oldest son has a Remington 700 ADL Youth with factory 20" barrel. It shoots 95 gr Nosler Ballistic Tips in the 2900-2950 fps range and kills stuff like lightning. I can't tell much difference between 20" and 22" 243's except 20"ers are easier to handle.
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I have an itch for a lightweight deer/coyote/occasional rock chuck rifle. Of the standard calibers .308, 7mm/08, 243 is there one that performs better out of a 20" barrel than the others? Along the same lines do slightly faster powders work a bit better than standard powders for a short barrel? Thanks. ..............For the above hunting you are going to do, either the 308 or the 7/08 will work just fine from the 20" tube. The 243 would be my 3rd choice. With either the 308 and the 7/08 from a 20" barrel vs a 24" barrel, the total velocity loss will probably average around 2.5% to 3%. Below is a link that shows what a 7/08 can do from a 16.5" barreled Ruger Frontier. Scroll down to the paragraph "Short Barrel, Long Reach." The author notes that the same percentage of velocity loss should also hold true for all other Frontier chamberings. www.shootingtimes.com/long-guns/longgun_reviews_scout_102606/Imo, you may be splitting some performance hairs between the 7/08 and the 308 for the game you mention. In terms of bullet speeds, the slower burning powders that offer higher speeds from the longer barrels, will also do the same from the shorter barrels. Just as with longer tubes, faster burns will not offer higher velocities from shorter barrels.
28 Nosler,,,,300WSM,,,,338-378 Wby,,,,375 Ruger
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Now which one will hurt your ears more out of a short barrel?
I recall a Ruger compact in .308 that I bought the boy. It had a 16.5" barrel. That somebitch was loud.
........Well if ya wear good hearing protection then it wont matter which one. Here is my exact same Ruger Frontier (nicknamed mighty mouse) in the same chambering. BTW, my ears are fine. www.gunblast.com/Ruger_FrontierRifle.htmNo ear protection?......Not with this one. 
28 Nosler,,,,300WSM,,,,338-378 Wby,,,,375 Ruger
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Don't know how short "short" is for you. Can say that I own 3 22" 7-08's that all run 120's @ 3050fps. I currently own 1 20" 7-08 and have in recent past owned a 2nd in that length and they both run the same load (R-15/120TSX or V-max) @ 3000fps on the nose. 50fps means little to nothing IMO.
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I'd run any of those rounds in a 20" barrel and not worry about small velocity loss.
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I have an itch for a lightweight deer/coyote/occasional rock chuck rifle. Of the standard calibers .308, 7mm/08, 243 is there one that performs better out of a 20" barrel than the others? Along the same lines do slightly faster powders work a bit better than standard powders for a short barrel? Thanks. Of those, I like the 243 for varmint/yote chores with deer thrown into the mix. Mine is a Sako with 22" barrel and is plenty light having a trim contour that is well balanced with the entire package. Not sure I'd see any noticeable advantage in carry ability if I took it down to 20", I doubt I could feel a difference, other than change of the balance point. Only thing I could see would be if I needed to lose the extra 2" to maneuver, but at 22" it is still very handy in the brush. If hell bent for leather to hit the 20" mark and was seeking the smallest loss in velocity of those, volume of the bore would probably be the trump card going to .308-inch. But then I'd be choosing a chambering for lack of velocity loss in a 20-inch barrel, not choosing a chambering for the chore of killing varmint/yotes.
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Had a Ruger 77 RSI with the 18-1/2 inch barrel in .243 for years. I started my both of my daughters deer hunting with that rifle. We never found the muzzle blast to be any more objectionable than my '06s or .270s with 22-inch barrels. In addition to deer and pronghorns, we used it on varmints, including both coyotes and feral hogs, with no hiccups.
Last edited by mudhen; 11/22/14.
Ben
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![[Linked Image]](http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4099/4740480322_82308b483f.jpg) This 243 is used as a coyote rifle and has heavy QR rings to change scopes along with a QR mounting base for my professional LightPro system. All this added junk brings it to just over 7 pounds. But if it were set-up like my 30-06 using LW rings and a modest scope, it would weigh no more than around 6 3/4 pounds. I've shot groups from the bench at 200 yards with as many as 10-shot strings under MOA, so performance at 22-inch is not lacking. It is very handy and I have carried this rifle many miles running from set-up to set-up gunning for yotes. I chose this chambering over .223 for the single reason that I hunt in some locations that forbid .223 for deer. Recoil is markedly reduced over the other chamberings you noted, and terminal performance is exceptional, even on deer. Food for thought.
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
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All of them lose a lot less than most think. I've looked at a lot of studies and everything from 308 up to the 30 cal and 7mm magnums "AVERAGE" somewhere between 10-30 fps for every inch you cut it shorter. Between 20" and 24" with most guns the difference is negligible, even with magnums. Go below 20" and you start seeing greater velocity loss. Any gains beyond 24"are pretty negligible in anything.
If you want real performance go with a 30-06 or even a magnum in a short barrel. While it is true that a 308 will lose less speed from shorter barrels, about 40 fps going from 22" down to 20". A 30-06 will lose about 50 fps, about a 10 fps greater loss. But since it starts about 100-150 fps faster a 20" 30-06 will still be faster than a 24" 308.
I don't notice a 20" gun being noticeably louder than a 22" gun. Get shorter than 20" and I notice.
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The Powley Computer will let you estimate the effect of barrel length on performance. (Use 48,000 CUP as the working pressure; it's a bit optimistic for 52,000 CUP.) Faster powders are only better in that you can get less muzzle blast with them, but you will give up speed. Maximum speed comes when you burn a full case of a powder which has a burning speed that causes pressure to reach the rated maximum; barrel length affects velocity but not powder selection. Having fired an 18" .243, I'd take the .308 from your list of choices.
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My 20" barrel 7mm-08 Weatherby MK V is my favorite hunting rifle; it just kills stuff like this boar last weekend. ![[Linked Image]](http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x400/cruiser111/Hog_zps8d080721.png)
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My long time most favorite "shorty" is my Model 7 in 7MM-08. The barrel is 18.5" IIRC and I get the 130 Speer SPBT hitting over 2700. In twenty plus years of smacking whitetails with it I am 100% DRT. That one gun has well over 45 deer and one antelope to its credit.
Do not think that I don't like the 308 because I do but the 7MM08 will do anything the 308 will, including winning matches to 1000 yards, and do it with less recoil, drop and drift.
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Centershot,
In general, the more overbore a cartridge is, the more it benefits from a longer barrel. Of the 3 you mentioned, I'd expect the .308 to least degradation in performance due to a shortened barrel. This. I'd expect a 338 Federal to suffer even less velocity drop than a 308 for the reason stated.
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How far will you be shooting game? Mule deer the past few years have ranged from 25yds to 450yds. You just never know what your going to get for a shot.
A true sportsman counts his achievements in proportion to the effort involved and fairness of the sport. - S. Pope
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The term I'm not seeing here is expansion ratio, or the relation of the case capacity to bore capacity. Here is a quote from Rocky Raab which explains it nicely (taken from here - http://www.shootersforum.com/ballis...-capacity-expansion-ratio-math-help.html): " Expansion ratio is the case volume plus bore volume, divided by case volume.
Example: the case holds 7.3 cubic whosis and the bore holds 3.1 cubic whosis. So the expansion ratio for that round in that gun is 10.4/7.3 or 1.42. That would be a very low expansion ratio, indicating use of an extremely slow powder.
The general rule on expansion rule is "lower is slower" regarding powder selection. But you can't use it to pick a single best powder, because powders aren't rated by a universal burn speed measurement. You can get only a general idea or "kinda slow" versus "kinda fast" and must wing it after that." Further - a low expansion ratio combination (case and bore capacity) will lose the most velocity per inch of barrel loss. Since all three chamberings are based on the same basic case and have pretty much the same basic case capacity, the .308 will lose the least velocity per inch of barrel loss since it has the largest bore capacity per inch of barrel. Obviously total barrel length has a bearing on expansion ratio as well. On powders - the same powders that give good velocity in a long barrel will give the best velocity in a shorter barrel (within reason - let's not compare 24" barrels to 3" barrels) - but they will be A LOT LOUDER. The pressure curve when a round is fired is going to be the same in a long or short barrel (bear with me) but a short barrel is going to "end" that pressure curve at a higher point along it. I.e., the muzzle pressure is going to be a lot more when same-same powders are burned in a shorter barrel. Muzzle pressure is muzzle blast aka noise and concussion. A 24" barrel might have a muzzle pressure of 8 kpsi, move back along the pressure curve and let the gas into the atmosphere from the end of an 18" barrel and the muzzle pressure might be 25kpsi - i.e. BIG FREAKIN' BOOM. The double whammy is that you release a higher muzzle pressure closer to your face. Longer barrels release less muzzle pressure farther away from your face. If you use a somewhat faster powder you can release it into the atmosphere at the 18" mark and its muzzle pressure might only be 12 kpsi. So - for least loss per inch of barrel, get a high expansion ratio chambering. If you want to keep the velocity up use the same burning rate powder you would in a longer barrel appropriate to the chambering. To shorten the barrel and still mitigate muzzle blast somewhat use a little faster powder. But it's still going to be loud. There's a lot more loonyism in this subject than I care to delve in to right now so if someone else wants to take up the lecture please feel free.
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The 7mm -08 has a good reputation around here.
I think if you swapped the rock chuck for black bear or moose, I would like the 338 Federal.
whelennut
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.308 is a caliber. 7mm/08 & 243 are not.
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If nothing larger than deer, get a 243. He11 get a 223.
I have short barreled rifles in every chambering mentioned. Any one of them would do just fine. But it sounds like a 243 would be well suited here.....
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I like carbines. But to not lose velocity I just step up to a bigger cartridge. Which is why I have a 30/06 with a 20 inch barrel. Which gets me 308 ballistics
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I have had a 20" in both a 243, Browning Micro Medallion and a 7-08 in a Browning Lightning BLR. I also have a 22" Savage 99 Featherweight in 308 that has a tight bore or other such thing that wont allow full pressure loads, even factory loads so gets loaded to 2650 with a 150gr SST. The longest shot I have ever taken on deer or any live target was with that 243 with a 80 gr Rem factory load. It was a loong shot but I knew the gun and the load and myself and lung shot it twice just to make sure and it was a quick kill.
Having taken many deer between the trio Id say pick whichever one you like most and shoot it as much as you can and you cant go wrong. For volume shooting the 243 is the easiest to shoot a lot in the short barreled guns. You could also go with 120grs in the 7-08 or 130s in the 308 and lesson the recoil gap a bunch.
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A nice 6mmx45 might fit the bill.
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I loaded hundreds of 125 grain Sierra flat base for my wife to shoot in her .308 Winchester.
It was accurate and low recoil. Deer died just fine.
whelennut
I like to do my hunting BEFORE I pull the trigger!
There is only one kind of dead, but there are many different kinds of wounded.
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My long time most favorite "shorty" is my Model 7 in 7MM-08. The barrel is 18.5" IIRC and I get the 130 Speer SPBT hitting over 2700. In twenty plus years of smacking whitetails with it I am 100% DRT. That one gun has well over 45 deer and one antelope to its credit.
Do not think that I don't like the 308 because I do but the 7MM08 will do anything the 308 will, including winning matches to 1000 yards, and do it with less recoil, drop and drift. For years my buddy hunted with his model 7 7mm-08 18.5" barrel and I had a 700 Ti 7mm-08 with the 22". They both killed deer\pigs the same and I remeber a few 450+ yard kills on pigs with that short 7mm-08
Ted
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How far will you be shooting game? Mule deer the past few years have ranged from 25yds to 450yds. You just never know what your going to get for a shot. To those ranges, all will work, it seems you reload, but none the less, a mild recoiling and mild muzzle blasting round that you CAN buy good factory ammo that is priced nice and deadly, as well as accurate - I would Strongly suggest a 6.5mm Creedmoor. A 260 will also do well. Both recoil less than 308 and 708 and cover varminting needs well. Those occasional rockchucks would hate 120/123 amax  BC better than 7mm and 308 "lite" bullets. I would also recommend a 20" bbl, which is what I just chopped my 6.5x47. Again all those above choices will work, but I always ENJOY getting a job done with less fuss ie. recoil and blast.
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It is true that the 260 can do it with less recoil but, at least for me, it has been more difficult to tune than 243, 7MM08 or 308.
I have launched a lot of 85 grain bullets at prairie dogs in the 260 over the years but never taken any game with it. The only thing I don't like about most factory 260 rifles is they just don't have a fast enough twist for the bullets I like to shoot.
I'm shoot4fun on Accurate Shooter Forum and you can see my feedback there.
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Good brass and H4350 is a 260s friend. 4350/130AB did 1/2 MOA at 200yds in a 9 twist Sako, twice...spun 139-142 well under MOA. OTOH a custom 6.5-308 I had built before the 260 was SAAMI did not like 140 PT. It came in 9 but ordered 8.
8 twist preferred, Ruger did them, now Creedmoor is the newer kid on the block
Also in 8t. Can't argue success but a good 6.5 rates high and I've shot my share of accurate 6, 6.5, and 7s. All will work.
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I took my Axis Deer this year with a TC Icon in 6.5 Creedmoor. It has a 1 in 8 twist and I shoot 140 gr bullets at 2800 FPS. This round may be "the newer kid on the block" but I like it better than any other 6.5 caliber I ever had (I've had 6.5x284, 6.5x47 Lapua and 260). It is easy to tune and, with low recoil, is a great choice for hunting or match shooting.
I'm shoot4fun on Accurate Shooter Forum and you can see my feedback there.
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Overbore is really the wrong word, i should have said faster cartridges.
Sean
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 90
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 90 |
What's wrong with a 600 Rem in 350 Mag all r 18" barrels, will kill anything out to About 300 yd.s if you can shoot!
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,721
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,721 |
Interesting thoughts - thanks. As an update on Black Friday I picked up a Rem 700 ADL youth model (20" Barrel) in .243. I'm hoping that it will make for a poor man's mountain rifle. Early testing has proved it to be about a 1" @ 100 yds gun with a few groups better and a few around 1.5". I need to do some experimenting with floating the barrel and some different reloading. It tends to string shots horizontally when it gets hot - certainly deer accurate, but not yet varmint accurate. I think this gun will do a nice job filling a pretty big void between my .22lr and 30-06.
A true sportsman counts his achievements in proportion to the effort involved and fairness of the sport. - S. Pope
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,407
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,407 |
I prefer classic.
Semper Fi
I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,796
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,796 |
Interesting thoughts - thanks. As an update on Black Friday I picked up a Rem 700 ADL youth model (20" Barrel) in .243. I'm hoping that it will make for a poor man's mountain rifle. Early testing has proved it to be about a 1" @ 100 yds gun with a few groups better and a few around 1.5". I need to do some experimenting with floating the barrel and some different reloading. It tends to string shots horizontally when it gets hot - certainly deer accurate, but not yet varmint accurate. I think this gun will do a nice job filling a pretty big void between my .22lr and 30-06. A really nice stock for that one is a ti takeoff (stockys 2950 bell and carlson) englarge the barrel channel and you will have a nicely balanced and light handy rig. For reference my 24" LA 700 adl with that stock and 6x42 weighs in at 7.5# on the nose. The exact weight of my dads 20" (smaller barrel contour) model 7 with a 2-7 leupold. Those factory plastic stocks are heavy!
Sean
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,825
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,825 |
.308 is a caliber. 7mm/08 & 243 are not. If .308 is a caliber, so is .243. 
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,407
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,407 |
The larger bore to case volume ratio the better for short barrels. The larger diameter bullets in the same case size will normally have faster burning powders and thus more complete combustion.
In this case size the most efficient short barreled rifle would be in progression - 358 Win, 338 Federal, 308 Win, 7mm-08 Rem, 6.5mm (260 Rem), 6mm (243 Win).
I prefer classic.
Semper Fi
I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,885
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,885 |
.308 is a caliber. 7mm/08 & 243 are not. If .308 is a caliber, so is .243. You're right! Had it in my head it was .244. Open mouth & insert foot.
"I never thought I'd live to see the day that a U.S. president would raise an army to invade his own country."
Robert E. Lee
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,680
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,680 |
I've run all 3 in 20" guns and 2 in 18.5" tubes, all shoot and kill fine. I agree with many that the velocity loss is less than you think. I do like the 7-08 the best but all 3 will do and then throw in the 260, 338 fed and 358 win and the choices are many, heck go all the way and build a 25-08, that would fit the bill for your intended quarry
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,079
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,079 |
Don;t overlook the 280 AI.
I am playing with one with a 22" barrel and the velocities are not far away from Noslers, which were achieved with 26" barrel length.
John
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,854
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,854 |
358 Win......18.5" barrel.......McMillan Compact! ![[Linked Image]](http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r61/sbark1/358Win1.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r61/sbark1/IMG_0631.jpg)
Sent from my Dingleberry Handheld Wireless
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,122
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,122 |
The larger bore to case volume ratio the better for short barrels. The larger diameter bullets in the same case size will normally have faster burning powders and thus more complete combustion.
In this case size the most efficient short barreled rifle would be in progression - 358 Win, 338 Federal, 308 Win, 7mm-08 Rem, 6.5mm (260 Rem), 6mm (243 Win). Finally.....someone who is not guessing nor offering an opinion. Nothing wrong with just giving the facts. Shod
The 6.5 Swede, Before Gay Was Ok
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,887
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,887 |
.308 for deer; 9.3X62 for anything bigger.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,639
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,639 |
For deer, coyote, chuck I'd go .243 without the slightest hesitation. If .223 was on the list I'd have to flip a coin to choose between it and the .243. The .308 and 7-08 wouldn't be in the running. I'm in this camp.
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565 |
If nothing larger than deer, get a 243. He11 get a 223. I was in this camp also. But apparently, for deer/coyote/chucks, the .358 Win. is the correct answer. Not opinion, but soundly verified as fact. Followed closely by by the 9.3x62 with the 280AI nipping at it's heels......
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 114
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 114 |
Yeah, going real short will show the 308 winning the competition since it has to do with expansion ratio. But at 20, I would say either the .308 or the 7mm would work fine. Now, if you want to go real short, go with a .35 caliber! Check this out as reference from Lyman: Chuck Hawks ref; Lyman Manual scroll to the bottom about velocity loss / inch of barrel. The old .35 Remington wins out. That is why it was one of the original chamberings in the T/C Contenders.
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by six.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,337
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,337 |
centershot
20 fps per inch of barrel, regardless of caliber or powder. A 223 or a 300 Ultra mag gains or losses about 20 fps per inch of barrel. If I were good with the search feature, I'd find the test I posted several years back.
Charlie
The data and opinions contained in these posts are the results of experiences with my equipment. NO CONCLUSIONS SHOULD BE DRAWN FROM ANY DATA PRESENTED, DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, ATTEMPT TO REPLICATE THESE RESULTSj
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,382
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,382 |
You mean this one?? For a long time I have wondered about how barrel length
affected velocity. I had always been told you need a certain
length barrel for certain calibers. I have read when folks
compared one gun to another with different lengths but I
always thought that was not an apples to apples comparision.
So I did a few test myself.
All these were Shilen barrels. I used the same brass through
out the whole test. All weighed to with 1 grain. Bullets
were tested on the Juenke machine. Powder charges were
weighed to .1 grain. The same rest, chronograph, Redding
press, primers all from the same lot, bullets for the same
box, same lathe, same crowning tool, same cutoff tool, and
each rifle done from start to finish on the same day.
Ambient temperature was the same because I shoot from inside
the shop. I held the rifle the same way on the rest every
time. I shot ten rounds first to break in the barrel. Then
cleaned with Sweets and fired one fouling shot. Then shot
five rounds and took the average. I used a midrange load
fron the Nosler book, not too hot but certainly not a
reduced load. Here is what I got.
22-250 Hodgdon 380 34 grains Federal GM210M Remington brass
55 grain Ballistic Tip
27 inches 3469 fps
26 3451
25 3425
24 3407
56 fps from highest to lowest
270 Winchester Hodgdon 4350 54 grains Federal GM210M
Winchester brass 130 grain Sierra
27 inches 3115 fps
26 3093
25 3071
24 3054
23 3035
22 3027
21 3001
114 fps from highest to lowest
300 Winchester mag Federal GM215M Winchester brass 74 grains
of Reloder 22 180 grain Partition
27 inches 3055 fps
26 3031
25 3024
24 3003
23 2984
22 2960
95 fps from highest to lowest
340 Weatherby Federal GM215M 250 grain Sierra
81 grains Reloder 22 Wby brass
27 inches 2837 fps
26 2817
25 2809
24 2791
23 2777
22 2755
21 2731
106 fps from highest to lowest
I think I will do a little more thinking before I recommend
a barrel length in the future. What do you folks think ?
Charlie
Here is the info about the 338 Win and the 257 Roberts.
338 Win mag
Winchester brass
Federal GM215M primers
Reloder 19....73 grains
250 grain Partitions
27 inches.....2806 fps
26 inches.....2787 fps
25 inches.....2761 fps
24 inches.....2743 fps
23 inches.....2716 fps
22 inches.....2697 fps
21 inches.....2676 fps
20 inches.....2656 fps
150 fps from 27 inches to 21 inches
257 Roberts
Federal GM210M primers
Remington brass
H-4350....45 grains
120 grain Partitions
27 inches.....2860 fps
26 inches.....2834 fps
26 inches.....2815 fps
25 inches.....2815 fps
24 inches.....2798 fps
23 inches.....2775 fps
22 inches.....2760 fps
21 inches.....2739 fps
20 inches.....2717 fps
143 fps from 27 inches to 20 inches
I want to test this on the next 450 Marlin I build and on a
222 Remington. If I get the same results with those, in my
mind the test is over. I think this will be enough data to
support the findings. Are there any folks out there who have
a degree in this sort of thing ? Maybe explain how many data
points would be needed to be able to say this would work
with the majority of calibers ? Someone with experience in
statistical(spell check) quality control ?
Charlie
A few weeks ago I done some testing with shortening barrels
with various calibers. I just finished this test with a 300
Ultra.
These loads were EXTREMELY HOT !!!!!!!!!
I will not post the grains here because on the third loading
the primer would fall out of the case . I never load this
hot , only this time for the test. I used Remington brass,
Federal GM215M primers, 220 grain round nose bullets. I used
the same procedures as the last test.
length.... H-4895 .....H-870
.....27 .....2740 .....3107 FPS
.....26 .....2709 .....3088
.....25 .....2685 .....3062
.....24 .....2663 .....3046
.....23 .....2636 .....3018
.....22 .....2612 .....2997
H-4895 lost 128 fps
H-870 lost 110 fps
Charlie
Cancer Sucks
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Joined: Aug 2005
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Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
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Posts: 10,721 |
Very interesting. Thanks.
A true sportsman counts his achievements in proportion to the effort involved and fairness of the sport. - S. Pope
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![[Linked Image]](http://s141.photobucket.com/user/sbark1/media/358Win1.jpg.html)
![[Linked Image]](http://s141.photobucket.com/user/sbark1/media/IMG_0631.jpg.html)
