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Anybody have much experience hunting Mt lions without dogs?

This last weekend I was hunting deer in SE Washington. Camped up on the Umatilla NF near the Blue Mt's. Sat afternoon, after I had punched my tag, I damn near ran into, literally, a big cat. It was cold out and we had snow on the ground that made for quite walking and active critters.

A couple old, grown over logging trails intersected the FS road and we surprised the chit out of each other. Paced it off at just under 5 yards. First time I ever saw a cougar in the wild. He looked huge. What really struck me was how long he was. Not just the tail, but his body looked 6' plus.

We looked at each other for a second or two and then that sob just up and vanished like a fart in the wind. I bet he cleared 20-30' in one leap and was gone. I'm standing there with an unloaded gun and a cougar tag in my pocket feeling like a dumbazz that just took a step down on the food chain.

Anyway- I have a hard on to hunt them now. I always get a combo tag that includes them, but never even saw one before last Saturday and gave them little thought.

Sounds like a neat experience. I don't think you will have much luck hunting them without dogs. They are a very secretive animal, most sightings that are chance encounters are with younger animals. I really think you just lucked out. I think if you want to kill one, you need to get behind some good dogs. It is a lot of fun too.

JJHack here has called in and killed a number of lions...you might pick his brain.

Your experience mirrors most cougar sightings by hunters. Brief and fleeting!

I've called them in, but have never shot one. Had two come up behind me on stand a couple years ago, they didn't know I was there.

I've tried tracking them in fresh snow and tried calling them while trailing them, in that situation and others. My theory is that calling them where concentrations of deer are, such as winter range, increases your odds. BUT, they cover lots of ground, many miles. Most times if a person were to successfully call one or more in, I'm betting they bust the caller more often than not.

An interesting thing I've noticed trailing cats in the snow is that where we tend to circumvent the cover to keep an open line of sight, cats go through cover to stay concealed. Under fir trees, thru manzanita bushes, etc. I guessing they're working the wind and opportunistically flushing game from cover as well, but who knows?

I've seen calf elk killed by cats, and even had a cougar come to my cow calls while working a herd of elk, so I know they tune into elk movements, not just deer. In that case of calling him in while in the elk, that sucker was fully exposed, directly in front of me in the ankle high cover, and I didn't spot him till he was at 20 yards. How he got there or how long he had been there watching me is anybodies guess. They are very stealthy!


All in all, hunting cats w/o dogs is going to require extreme dedication, stealth, and patience. But, if a person can wrap their head around all that, I don't see why a guy couldn't harvest at least an occasional cat, especially by calling. Focus on game concentrations, put your time in, move slowly and deliberately when calling. I would hunt ridgelines, saddles, natural funnels, brush edges, even (game) bedding areas. Be mindful that a predator would prefer to be downwind of game, whether in a bedding or travel situation, and plan to set up accordingly to watch a cats approach angles.

Like I said, I've not shot one, but like you, if I had more time I'd get after them in a NY minute. Just no time.

I called one in when I was a kid. It was around Lincoln.

A guy wrote an article for Fur Fish and Game recently. His technique involved a H&R Handi Rifle and finding fresh sign and chasing the cats down. Lots of failures but he was successful in the end.

Helluva way to earn your trophy.



Travis

I know a couple of guys who have done that successfully, one of them with a recurve.

Unfortunately Washington game laws do not allow you to use dogs. I hunt them all winter and it is dumb luck to be in the right place at the right time with a LOADED gun. I have tracked them for miles without ever seeing them and when you are not paying attention they pop out and scare the heck out of you then disappear. About the only way you can be successful is if you happen to come upon a fresh cougar kill and sit there to see if one will come back. What area where you hunting in the blues?

Does his name start with a "D" and end with a "ownstream?"



Travis

Great experience and a great story!

Rainshadow on this forum specializes in calling cougars and has a lot of info on his web site, plus hand calls and recorded cougar sounds for calling them. My son and I have called several using his sounds. Rainshadow lives in Western WA and has done some guiding for cougars by calling. He is good.

As Ingwe said, JJ Hack on this site has called cougars and has been helpful when I've asked him questions. He called in a huge tom lion a few years ago. A guy named Steve Craig in AZ is excellent at calling them but he has retired from guiding hunters to called lions. Anything you can learn from him is gold.

My son has killed three called cougars, one of them a mature male, the others mature females. Also like JJ, he has tracked one till he saw the cat, though has not killed one that way. I've called quite a few on purpose and a couple by accident (one of those to rattling antlers).

IMO they are one of the easiest animals to get to come closer to a call sound, hard to locate one to call, and the absolute hardest animal in N. America to see when they come in to the call.

Dogs are much more effective, but cougars are callable. You may call one and kill it on your first stand, or try for years. Beware that calling them is addictive!

I've seen Rainshadows name here. I'll have to look him up!

I'm pretty sure I was in JJ's backyard. I think he hails from the area.

Blu- I pulled a second deer tag for area 1010. I hunted the wheat fields up Skyline. I've been out there for the general season the last couple years.

Good country with good memories for me. I killed my first deer off Skyline and my first elk. When I was about 8 and walking with my Dad as he hunted deer up there, we had a cougar follow us.

Good luck calling a big cat.

I tried calling them a few times. "Tried" is the operative word....didnt get it done.

I do a Group Cougar camp Every year in February, in the Fort Rock Area of Oregon. I have called in one 9yr old Male and Killed a 5yr old female off a Found kill site. With out Dogs you must put in time. Cutting tracks, Finding Kills, Calling in hot spots at the correct time, All take Time to learn. When you get perfect snow for tracking you have to get out and hit it hard. Drive every road you can, Hike every trail. Concentrate on Winter range, If there are deer there are cougar eating them. Females with young can be easier to spot, Because there is more of them and the female uses a lot of daylight training the young to kill. While big Males are the prime trophy, Females Are better eating. My calling tactic is to call load, Fast and Short. 3-5 seconds, Attempting to make the sound of a cougar killing a deer. While I have called in several cougar, I have only killed one of them. Your calling spot must be near perfect, Good view, complete cover and you must be patient. Cats will come in and set down in a good spot to watch the area it thinks the sound came from. If you call at the wrong time they blow out, If you move too soon, they blow out, If you do not attract their attention they wander off to eat something else. If you see them kill them, because they disappear fast. Trophy hunting is really not an option when calling or stand/still hunting a Kill site. The cat you see needs to get a tag on it.

We have way to many mountain lions in the Black Hills of SD but not enough cougars. The state sells unlimited tags for the lions on a kill quota but none for nonresidents. They don't allow the use of dogs in the Hills except for some of the draw for tags in Custer State Parks but the cougars only hang around there from Memorial Day to Labor day and the lion season is in the winter. Sure I'll bet there are some cougars in the northern hills ski areas and gambling joints of Deadwood just prowl at night dress nice, use lots of money and be well endowed usually gets them. But the lions are harder to come by most are taken by calling electronic and mouth calls. The more successful guys don't just get lucky but do their damndest too locate individual lions and pattern the ranges of indiviuals after it snows. They get a pretty good idea how often the lions pass thru an area and try to be setup in that time frame.
A good friend of mine has a pack of dogs for coon hunting that has gotten experience on bear and in CSP on lions, he has more than a few buds who also run dogs. They all got smart bought non resident Wyo tags and waited for it to snow and it did from 11/7 on. Took their vacations and treed 9 lions in 9 days killing 7 of them. Some of these lions range overlapped into SD so we came up a winner on that deal for sure. Too many lions and antlerless deer tags sold in the Hills for the last 7-10 years have decimated our deer herd down to a 1/3 of the BH tags we used to have. Just like the bulls*t numbers on our pheasant pops the GFP allways says they need to study the lions more before being proactive in reducing their numbers significantly. Just like coyotes we need a 365 ,24/7 shoot on sight anywhere any time to get the cats under control. Probably won't happen till they get rid of the current GFP Secretary who is a big cat hugger.
Still plenty of cougars if you look in the right places with all the right prerequisites and physical abilities though. Magnum Man

I have spent a large amount of time purposefully hunting cougar in the Blue Mountains. I saw my first one in 1999 and since then have seen a dozen more. I shot at that first one but missed. It was 500 yards away. They are quite small from back to brisket. I have killed 2 and missed another at 525 yards. The first one I killed was called in by a buddy to 310 yards. The second one I tracked for a couple hours and finally saw it at 440 yards up the canyon. That shot grazed it and caused it to run into the bottom of the canyon. I proceeded forward and then saw it working its way back up the slope. I got prone and dug my elbows into the snow and made a good killing chest shot at 400 yards. Of the 13 I have seen only 3 have been less than 310 yards away.

So one of my recommendations would be to become proficient at long range shooting. Keep at it and have fun. Go out with the mentality that you are getting some exercise in the mountains.

+1 on rainshadow. I've got his calls. Talk to Steve, he's a wealth of info...

I've called one in before. I was using deer distress on an old caller and low and behold he showed up in about 20 minutes or so....of course he saw me reaching for my rifle and took off but you can call them in.

I have killed 7 without the aid of dogs. They have either been glassed up or called in. I have called in a dozen or more that weren't killed and have seen dozens more that didn't get shot for one reason or another. Almost all of our lion hunting is dry ground here. We didn't even get any snow last winter and have none on the ground yet this year. I think we got a total of 2-3" in the high country this whole winter and most of it is gone.

What calls did you use Dennis? The area I hunt is too thick to glass them. I was out on Saturday and did hear one but couldn't get it to come in.....I'll try again this weekend.

Some good reading on cats that came to calls. Really a wealth of information.

http://www.rain-shadow.com/cougar_callin_stories.htm

The guys that really do good on lions use lion sounds. I don't. I have called all my lions in using deer distress sounds. Mostly with a Critter Gitter or a Fox Pro Electronic call. The deer sounds work good on bears too so that is what I use.

I shot two lions with 165 grain X bullets from a 300 Wby and it put a smack down on them right now! I shot three with 165 ballistic tips (early versions) and had a mess on my hands!

which bar.

Not having a gun loaded stinks --I have did it a couple of times -not on mountain lions but other stuff.
I have started holding my gun in hand or laying across my lap all the time.
The comment about how well ML's can sneak in unseen --bobcats are amazing also , had a huge Tom walk out into a field right in front of me --somehow??. I thought he must have came out of a tunnel or something .
Good luck on the ML -a true trophy to me .

I too live in cougar country, both kinds, and do a lot of calling for coyotes and other targets of opportunity. I frequently use a foxpro and always have a Mt. Lion tag in my pocket.
1. how do I contact Rainshadow and obtain his calls?
2. what other calls work for you and how do you use them?

I am loving this topic and hope that you who know will share w/ us hackers. Thanks!

mike r