Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Other than some jobs, What Does Keystone Offer US?

Don't ya love it!

Southern refineries are not the only ones that can use it. The Mobil and BP refineries around Chicago (and Citgo?) have made expensive modifications to be able to use oil from the shale and tar sands.

There is money there, but more importantly Keystone is an asset we can use to further reduce our oil imports from nations that we would prefer not to do business with.

Do we NEED Keystone? No, we really don't. Especially now that demand is way down, but more importantly US production is up markedly. So we may not NEED it, but it sure is a nice thing to have in our back pocket.

Venezuelan oil is tar sands oil, and we have always bought from them, but they hate us too. So why not cut them out altogether and just buy our tar sands oil from a nation we like to do business with?

It will create some jobs, it will make Canada a LOT of money (and I'm cool with that), and make the US a little money. But it becomes somewhat of a strategic financial asset...THAT is why I would like to see Keystone built.

Oil or bitumen? When I managed our upgrader project in Ft. Sask the the gvt was pushing hard to disallow bitumen (cheap chitte stuff from oil sands) to be sent south for upgrading and wanted all upgrading to be done in Canada.

while only sorta related to your post....one thing people forget is though we are fracking it out of shale type deposits, the oil coming out of the Bakken is VERY high quality light sweet crude...its pretty well identical to the benchmark West Texas Intermediate....WTI gravity is 40WPI, Bakken oil ranges from 36 to 44WPI....in other words unlike the stuff coming out of the tar sands it is very good chit that requires lil processing.....

Our domestic oil production has already lowered the price of SAUdi oil. The more we drill the lower the price. Remember "drill baby drill" she was right.

Yes she was...

If we, or "they," drill too much however, prices will bottom out and the boom dies and we're back to high prices again. Overall, there needs to be an equilibrium in the market where supply does not overwhelm demand.

In essence, the entire world needs to realize that we, the world, are not going to run out of oil any time in the next few hundred years, at a minimum, with the known deposits. Oil is truly a commodity, is not rare, and needs to be treated as such.

When the above sinks into the ethos of humans and their govts, organizations like OPEC will lose just about all coercion on the world stage.

Maybe it'll create some global warming. I could use some right now.

If we use it at a reasonable rate---we will never run out. The Earth manufactures oil at a steady rate that GOD deemed reasonable.

That there is a pipeline, I don't care way anyone else thinks it is. It's simply a big, fat, relatively short pipeline cut into even shorter lengths. How anyone can think a moving pipeline is safer than a stationary one, beats me. Trains are a very good thing IMO, and efficient. Clearly there are many ways they can be used to expedite transportation without them being tied up for delivering stuff that can be moved even more cheaply (and safely) via pipeline.

I would much rather pay our allies in Canada for oil than the thieving Marxist government of Venezuela. I remember Chavez threatening to cut off oil to the US back when he was in power.

If we can swap out Venezuellan oil for Canadian oil, I think that is just fine and dandy.

Warren Buffet getting $30 a barrel to move oil. That sure seems like a high price to move 42 gallons but when you have a monopoly on transportation you can charge that. Someone should notify AG Holder.

Not sure where the $30/barrel comes from but its not true.
Link to eia website...you can take the numbers for real.
Cost to move via pipeline $5
By train. .....$10-15.
http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=7270

Not arguing its not significant and rail should be freed up for other commodities. I wonder where rail infrastructure is manufactured...must be booming.

Sure...almost every thing manufactured in this country is made from oil in one way or another.

GE just opened a big engine plant in FW. They are booked up with sales. I think it said they turn out one engine a day.

Let the Chinese make drink umbrella's, this is where we need to focus our manufacturing efforts. The biggest, most complex, most technically advances products the world has ever scene.

TransCanada Keystone Pipeline's (KP) claims there will be 9,000 jobs created, but according to KP's filing with the State Department (the pipeline is an international endeavor and so requires the filing), about 50 permanent jobs (control operators) and about 3,500-4,500 temporary construction jobs will be created. Maintenance and repairs will be contracted out to existing companies, so few new jobs will be created, according to the filing. These numbers are contained in their filing.

Regardless, my big concern is that the legislation authorizing the KP in the US is that the KP is specifically exempt for any damages that a leak or blowout might cause. Since 1990, there have been approximately 5,800 incidents in which oil/ natural gas has been ejected from pipelines in the US alone. About 300 deaths have been attributed to these spills. Following one major spill in the early 1980�s, the owners refused to clean-up the spill, the clean-up costs (about $200 million) were paid by the US taxpayer and, the Oil Spill Liability Trust Fund was created. For each barrel of oil shipped, the pipeline pays $0.08 (eight cents per 42 gallons of crude) into the fund. See: http://www.uscg.mil/npfc/About_NPFC/osltf.asp

Trans-Canada�s tar sands oil will not be required to contribute toward the Oil Spill Liability Trust Fund. See: http://mnpoliticalroundtable.com/20...ability-trust-fund/#sthash.ejlnsCkK.dpuf

Also, the tar sand oil is not free-flowing; it is a solid that must be melted (using steam produced by burning refined product) and diluted with benzene and other chemicals (that later be removed). Benzene is a carcinogen and if it spills onto land or waterways, is nasty to clean-up.

If a spill does occur and the KP has not paid into the fund, who will pick up the tab? For these reasons, I have major concerns with the Keystone Pipeline (regardless of their PR hype).

Cops??

Pipelines, while expensive to build, are the cheapest way to move liquid product. When I worked for Mobil Oil in supply and distribution (early-mid 1960's), I was amazed at how little it cost to move crude and refined product via pipeline, once the infrastructure was in.

Your source is clearly biased. First, I don't see a footnote or source regarding the alleged 300 deaths.

Next yes there may only be 50 new jobs for the pipeline operator, but those contractors will need to hire to accommodate their new demand. In addition your source ignores the refining jobs, shipping jobs, exports jobs, plus all the management and administrative job that go along with such endeavors. To suggest a net result of only 50 new jobs is a liberal myth.