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i, for one, hope you get the opportunity to check several brands and look forward to your findings


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Jason,

if you do torque tools calibrations, you must, by procedure, follow ISO 6789 and therefore, should be familiar with basic provisions of this document, related paperwork and how certificate of calibration should look like. Obviously, there is no need to post it here, as it would take lots of space, and, as you know well, any ISO document is really boring to read for anybody who is not deeply involved, by occupation, into this kind of stuff. Here is, however, a hint for you - certificate of calibration included, for example, with Wheeler FAT wrench does not comply at all with ISO 6789 requirements, and, therefore, from both legal and technical point of view, is not a valid certificate of calibration or even, validation of the tool. Does not mean Wheeler FAT wrench is somehow all that bad, just means that attached paperwork is no good and is not proving anything about the tool itself by just being included with the tool.

What is the specific, in your opinion, criteria for "cheap wrenches" to be really that bad that they should be pitched in a trash?

I do feel you have certain knowledge related to torque tools calibration, and agree with some of your statements, that's why I'm interested in what you got to say...

Last edited by Mishka; 11/22/14.
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Look forward to findings


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Originally Posted by Mishka
Jason,

if you do torque tools calibrations, you must, by procedure, follow ISO 6789 and therefore, should be familiar with basic provisions of this document, related paperwork and how certificate of calibration should look like. Obviously, there is no need to post it here, as it would take lots of space, and, as you know well, any ISO document is really boring to read for anybody who is not deeply involved, by occupation, into this kind of stuff. Here is, however, a hint for you - certificate of calibration included, for example, with Wheeler FAT wrench does not comply at all with ISO 6789 requirements, and, therefore, from both legal and technical point of view, is not a valid certificate of calibration or even, validation of the tool. Does not mean Wheeler FAT wrench is somehow all that bad, just means that attached paperwork is no good and is not proving anything about the tool itself by just being included with the tool.

What is the specific, in your opinion, criteria for "cheap wrenches" to be really that bad that they should be pitched in a trash?

I do feel you have certain knowledge related to torque tools calibration, and agree with some of your statements, that's why I'm interested in what you got to say...


What is the point of your posts? To debate over semantics, or expound on your great knowledge of calibration?!

How about a friendly discussion and offer to test some common tools to help others make a buying decision?

If you want to turn this into an ISO pissing match, start by posting the standard.

Jason




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Mishka,

Better yet, since you are the resident torque tool calibration expert I suggest we send all torque wrenches to you.

What do you say?

Jason


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Mishka,

So far we have:

qty = 1, Wheeler
qty = 1, Weaver
qty = 1, Armstrong

Look forward to the findings, if you are up for it.

Jason

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Originally Posted by Cropslx
Seems like I got my torque wrench from a guy off snipershide. Everyone there raved about them so I got that one instead. I can't remember the name of it off the top of my head.


It's a Borka; I've got one...love it.


24HCF in its entirety, is solely responsible for why my children do not have college funds, my mortgage isn't paid-off and why I will never retire early enough to enjoy the remainder of my life.





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Originally Posted by 4th_point
Mishka,

So far we have:

qty = 1, Wheeler
qty = 1, Weaver
qty = 1, Armstrong

Look forward to the findings, if you are up for it.

Jason


Jason,

ISO 6789 is easy found by using Google. To help you get to it even quicker, w/o you spending any time for typing "ISO 6789" in a search bar, here is one of many links:

http://www.iso.org/iso/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=29929

O.K., I think I got it - in your opinion, because I supposedly know too much about torque tools being discussed here, I should not reply to your posts. No problem, Jason, I was just curious about technical side of your kind offer to test other people's tools. Sorry for asking questions and trying to communicate with you, it should have never happened. My mistake.

So far, you came up with initiative to test other people's tools. Your latest idea of delegating the execution of your initiative to me is very much appreciated, but I got to refuse. It's all yours, you got it all figured out and you should certainly stick with your idea and plan as originally offered to participants of this interesting discussion.

Wishing you good luck with testing, and I'm looking forward to your findings, and even more important, your conclusions about three brands of torque tools mentioned above.







Last edited by Mishka; 11/22/14.
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By all means, take the reins Mishka.

Please tell us how to run the test.

Jason

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Originally Posted by 4th_point
By all means, take the reins Mishka.

Please tell us how to run the test.

Jason


Jason,

Are you saying now that you're not sure how to run the test? Then why did you offer to run the test yourself in the first place? One of your posts indicated that you know it very well, something like take the wrench, tighten the nut and look at the monitor, right?

Anyway, now that you have a direct link to download of ISO 6789, which is 15 pages, I see no reason whatsoever to personally read this document to you or post all 15 pages here.

I suggest you stop paying any attention to me personally, and start testing various brands of torque tools, as you've offered to other people. I promise not to ask you any more silly questions, which appears to distract you from executing your initiative, and will not be sharing any more of my personal knowledge on the subject, so that it would not irritate you any more. As I said, it's all yours, my friend, I'm out...

Just post your findings and conclusions, when you're done. We're interested to hear from you.

Last edited by Mishka; 11/22/14.
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You're not getting off the hook so easy with your hit-n-run attacks. Spill the frijoles with the test plan. Or are you just going to go around and around with your pointless posts?

You stated that you're an expert with torque measurement devices and repeatedly quoted the ISO standard.

Let's see it.





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Just so I get this straight...

1. Mishka is a torque measurement expert.

2. Yet Mishka doesn't want to help test the tools we've discussed.

3. And Mishka has no advice on the testing.

Am I missing anything? Where did my troll detector go? I thought I had it a moment ago.

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Originally Posted by Mishka
...We're interested to hear from you.

No, we're interested in determining if our torque wrenches are accurate. You're interested in stirring up schitt and I wish you'd stop. If you continue Jason may decide not to kindly help us out as he has offered initially. That'd piss a lot of folks off.

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Originally Posted by 4th_point
Just so I get this straight...

1. Mishka is a torque measurement expert.

2. Yet Mishka doesn't want to help test the tools we've discussed.

3. And Mishka has no advice on the testing.

Am I missing anything? Where did my troll detector go? I thought I had it a moment ago.


Jason, unfortunately, you got nothing straight.

1. I never said I'm an expert. You have to provide reference to prove that I specifically mentioned myself as being an expert. If you made this conclusion by yourself, it's your choice.

2. I never said I'm willing or interested to help. In fact, I can not help, I have no necessary equipment(1) and free time to do it for fun (2). When my business needs something related to torque tools tested, I send it to specialized testing lab, and I pay for the service, and it's not cheap. They do it in accordance with ISO 6789, like everybody else in torque tools testing business. This is all I know about testing. My primary business in in torque tools design and manufacturing, and testing is always being outsourced. According to your posts, you know much more, than I do, about testing, as tou personally do it all the time. So, I conclude that you got to be an expert, not me.

3. I can not give you advice on testing, except a friendly suggestion to familiarize yourself with ISO 6789, which, to my knowledge, is used by professional testers, so that your findings are supported, desirably, by some kind of commonly used procedure. What's wrong with this particular advice? However, if you think ISO 6789 set of procedures is of no importance, and do not want to use ISO 6789 guide lines, just do it your way, deal? You're the boss.

I'm out of your way, 100%. And don't use me as an excuse not to do testing. I smell that this excuse of yours is coming, with consideration to Magnumdood's post. Several posters seem to be seriously relying on your kind offer to do testing for them, so don't let them down on your promise,O.K.? It's now all about your personal credibility, you can not turn back, because I, who is certainly nobody to you and other people, made a few posts, which you may not like. Just forget about these posts, according to some people here they are made by the troll, so they should not be taken seriously by design. These posts should not change anything in regard to your intentions to do testing.

It's obvious I'm wasting time trying to help you with your project to test tools. Do not bother to reply to me. With this post of mine, I'm done replying to you. It's high time to forget about me and to start helping people who are interested to know if their torque tools are accurate.



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So all that blabbing to basically say nothing! Exactly what I expected.





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Originally Posted by 4th_point


You stated that you're an expert with torque measurement devices and repeatedly quoted the ISO standard.

Let's see it.



Oops, forgot to reply to this one.

You got to be one of those dudes who like to make things up...

Yep, let's see it. Jason, go ahead and find my post stating "I'm an expert with torque measurement devices."

Why do you say all these things which never took place?

In regard to ISO standard - you did state that you work for ISO 9001 company. Do you guys over there sometimes quote (and possibly, sometimes use) ISO standards, to comply with ISO 9001 certification? Then, what is your problem with me quoting ISO standard, which is applicable to your initiative of testing torque tools?

I know you're not going to find any of my posts with statement that you've attributed to me, and I suspect you know nothing about ISO, so just drop all these attempts, and simply do testing of torque tools, as you've promised to do to some of forum members, in your own Jason's way.


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Originally Posted by Mishka
Originally Posted by 4th_point


You stated that you're an expert with torque measurement devices and repeatedly quoted the ISO standard.

Let's see it.



Oops, forgot to reply to this one.

You got to be one of those dudes who like to make things up...

Yep, let's see it. Jason, go ahead and find my post stating "I'm an expert with torque measurement devices."

Why do you say all these things which never took place?

In regard to ISO standard - you did state that you work for ISO 9001 company. Do you guys over there sometimes quote (and possibly, sometimes use) ISO standards, to comply with ISO 9001 certification? Then, what is your problem with me quoting ISO standard, which is applicable to your initiative of testing torque tools?

I know you're not going to find any of my posts with statement that you've attributed to me, and I suspect you know nothing about ISO, so just drop all these attempts, and simply do testing of torque tools, as you've promised to do to some of forum members, in your own Jason's way.


Mishka,

You keep reiterating that you are "out of it" and will no longer respond to Jason's posts, yet, your posts directly follow Jason's posts at least 4 times after you said you would cease and desist that precise activity. The way I see it you have absolutely no grounds to criticize Jason's kind gesture to his fellow board members. Further, you should just shut the [bleep] up. You're not contributing anything to the thread topic; you've got some sort of problem with Jason and his offer to check our torque wrenches. If you must argue with him take it into a PM and keep the monkey poo-fights off of the public board.

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Mishka, Jason:
Let's not make this a pissing contest.
The way I read it was Jason proposed to check on the accuracy of the tools provided, with equipment he uses to certify/verify other schitt.
Consumers could decide which company they decide to purchase on and owner's can decided to use them again or not.

I am a doctor, if I examine someone I do not have to send a copy of my certifications to anyone, the fact that I own have privileges to work at certain institutions, hold a medical license and have passed however many board exams I have taken tells the patient that I meet the minimum requirements of medical knowledge. (I did overpenetrate the national means though hehehe)

That is not a guarantee that I will be accurate 100% of the time, or make me better or worse than the competing Drs somewhere else. Just that I meet a certain standard. And patients and families don't ask me if I can provide reports of competence everytime. They trust the institution hiring me has done due diligence evaluating my skills and track record.
Could I do brain surgery? maybe, most likely will botch it, so I won't do it despite having access to tools and books that tell me so.
I agree with Mishka that a sample of one tool does not reflect a company, but I think it is a start to shed some light.
I always appreciate reading from devil's advocates, but it is delivery that can make less pleasant.

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Sorry for the delay fellas. Been busy at work and home lately. I'll PM those with wrenches to send. If anyone else wants to help by sending a torque wrench, that would be great. Even if its another Wheeler or Weaver, the more the merrier.

Jason

Last edited by 4th_point; 11/23/14.
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PM's sent to the 3 dudes that offered to send wrenches.

I'll try to get the ISO standard this week at work. I don't work in the lab and don't have access to the records at home. We'll reference the document for the testing.

Jason

Last edited by 4th_point; 11/23/14.
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