Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting The 308 cartridge

Not sure what "easier to shoot" means.

There is no such thing as a heavy recoiling 308 Win IMO.

And 9lbs. isn't exactly squarely in the middle if you look at the pics I posted.

Tweeners are not as good LR as heavy guns. Not as easy to pack as light guns.

Optimal for NEITHER task....

Easier to shoot means just that.... they are more forgiving of shooter inconsistency and other external influences than light (6-7lb) rifles.....

.308 is heavier recoiling than any of the smaller caliber cartridges it has spawned.... and ironically.... that's the only thing it does better. Less recoil equals more shooting.... period.... add better results due to better bullets... and going smaller than .308 is a win/win.

This .260 Rem. weighs between 8.5 and 9lbs as pictured. It got packed 20+ miles this year in the high country of multiple states. It shot/placed solidly at the SRM (39/60) in May, and was easily the lightest rifle on the line.... by 4 lbs. At least two dozen people (women, children, old men.... even Tanner) have made multiple LR hits with this rifle... most of them with no/little prior centerfire rifle experience. I've 'built' a half dozen rifles.... and owned another dozen. This is by far the best rifle I've built for pretty much everything.

Tweeters are a great way to go.... They're like Unicorns.... 8 hotness (shootability/accuracy).... and 4 crazy (heavy).

Today....


WA Sept......


1/2 mile.... cold bore.... 9lb gun...

It's true... Even I can shoot that .260...

Tanner

Oh well you have changed my mind then. I love tweeners now

Like I said, optimal for nothing IMO......

Dogshooter,

I'm with ya on the 'tweeners. My #5 barreled .308 shoots crazy good and is portable enough for the hunting I do. I also like the .260 but have found the .308 easier to develop an accurate load for. Out to 600, the .308 with a proper bullet hangs with the others pretty well. After that the .260 starts to significantly pull ahead.


John

Funny..... that single rifle I pictured.... can hang with every rifle you pictured..... out to however far you wanna run'em.... or however far you wanna pack'em..... and is probably lighter than 4 outta your 6....

Might not be 'optimal' for anything.... but it's pretty much great at everything.....

If you say so. But I highly doubt it.

There is a reason why your gun was the lightest by 4lbs.

And there is a reason why they make Mountain Rifles, Finnlights, and Montanas.

IMO it is foolish to think that a single rifle is better suited to 2 completely different tasks (neither for which it was specifically designed) than 2 rifles specifically designed for each task.

But if you want to keep telling yourself that, that is fine by me. Just don't expect me to buy it. I know better......

It's designed for killin schitt near and far..... off a 'bench'.... or 10 miles from nowhere.

What are yours designed for?

2muchgun, some guys simply dont prefer light rifles. I prefer lighter rifles, Hondo prefers tweeners. Nothing wrong with either option if it aligns with preference.

I've owned a few "tweeners" (9lbs) that absolutely hammered to 1k, and I carried those rifles a lot of miles, too.

A Model 88 and a Sako in a Gelcoat stock don't really strike me as lightweights, but everybody has a different definition I suppose.

Tanner

What are you planning to hunt? What are the ranges in yards?

+1, all I hunt with now.

If you actually READ the thread, you will see that I never had a problem with what anybody likes. But they sure do have a problem with what I DON'T like.

I am in a good mood this morning. And certainly not going to argue over rifle preferences.

But I will say a few words . To me a Tweener rifle is something with around a #5 contour barrel around 10ish lbs that somebody designed as a hunting rifle that will also "get used off the bench for some LR target shooting". Many here know I have owned 100s of rifles. I have owned these EXACT guns.

A few of my guns are pictured above. The 3 lighter guns, 2 are under 7.5 lbs. and the 88 different scope now) is right at 8 lbs. FWIW, IIRC 88s were originally spec'd at 7.25 lbs. Many came in closer to 7 lbs., though. No, they are not fly weights. And, I also do not like fly weights much. I gotta have some feel to the rifle. The other guns are obviously a LOT heavier.

My point being, the sub 8 lbs carry easily, handle quickly, and I've yet to find out what they will not kill. Now granted, 625 yds. is my longest kill shot. I'm not shooting across canyons. I simply cannot find a reason to carry a heavier rifle. There is NO need.

The heavy guns pictured are for (custom class) F-class type shoots and 600 yd. egg shoots. They were built to kill targets far away, not critters. I really hope I do not have to explain why they are better suited IMO than a 9-10 lb. tweener rifle for said chore.

Here are some 9-ish pounders I used to shoot LR. A 300 Mag and a 270 WSM. The 270 printed some respectable groups @ 1000yds with 142gr SMKs:

Used this scope though. Not the 4-12x40:


The above magnums were built for killin'. But the below ones are better for killin' paper:



[img]http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p32/2muchgun/001-5.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p32/2muchgun/005.jpg[/img]

Here is THE BEST tweener I ever owned. But it is hard to call a tweener in a way. It's not really that heavy. It's like a mini heavy gun. There is nothing else quite like it. It may be the only gun I own that gets used for competition(factory class 200yd egg shoots) and hunting. And shines in both regards:
[img]http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p32/2muchgun/003-1.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p32/2muchgun/002-3.jpg[/img]

Anyhoo, I have learned what I like through much trial and error. Not from reading Field and Stream. For me, it's heavy guns for LR targets, and light (but not flyweight) rifles for hunting. I don't get much use or prefer anything that lands in the middle. If you do, that's fine with me. I prefer a tool specialized for each task. Not one that is okay for both, but optimal for neither. JMO. YMMV.

You kids have a good day .....

I have 2 308s that I use a lot, but for this I would rather a 7-08 or 260.

I run my 308 to 600yds often. But consider it a 800yd cartridge with the right bullets. After that, it drops like a brick. The higher BCs of the 7mms and 6.5s make them better LR choices than the 308...........

I'm in your preference camp, absolutely no use for a #5 for me, but whatever floats your boat!

History is a great teacher if you read it and pay attention to it. Scenarshooter shot a lot of animals with the 308 and 155 Scenars. He then pursued the same with the 260 and Scenars. Now he uses the 6.5 SAUM 4s same Scenars same scope but the rifles and cartridges evolved a way from 308. Much to be learned from one who can and does all the time without having to go thru the whole process for yourself. He has successfully BTDT. If I were pursuing a LR outfit the 6.5 SAUM is where I would start. Magnum Man

Yep, always best to start with a wildcat cartridge that requires sizing down, fireforming and neck-turning. Especially one that starts with currently unavailable brass.

Of course the 6.5 SAUM is bad-azz, but it appears to be a logistical nightmare.

2MG you got some nice looking rifles. I'm just looking to "play" with the longrange shooting,if what I'm planning on shooting @ is considered LR 500-600 MAX. It'll mainly be used for hunting.

Shooting steel is not as critical but just remember that you need 900-1000 foot pounds of energy to get the bullet to do its job on a 200 pound animal. That number can vary slightly depending on who you ask. Maj. John Plaster subscribes to 1000 ft. lbs. I would use that as a guide in your bullet/cal. selection as that is more critical when killing game. Of course bullet placement is a big part as well. Of all the calibers listed Mojo Hand has it right with flip a coin. I personally would opt for the 7mm-08 as the BC is better on the .284 as opposed to the .308 and has a very good bullet selection as well for the reloader. Ballistics suggests that 550 yards with a 120 grain bullet is no problem for deer with the 7mm-08. I can tell you from experience that it performs fine. Just my 2 cents.

Foot pounds of energy means absolutely nothing with regards to terminal performance and tells you absolutely nothing about how any bullets will perform. It is a completely useless and misleading number.


Bullets have a velocity window. As long as the bullets impacts within that velocity window it will open up and damage tissue.