If you were to buy a rifle to do some longrange shooting at targets and also hunt at close to medium range what cartridge would you choose based on the 308?
I'd go 260 Rem or 243 twisted @ 1 in 8. The more I shoot my 243 the more I wonder why I have other rifles. 105 Hornady BTSP's out to 800 on steel and 80gr mono's for fur.
I'd go 260 Rem or 243 twisted @ 1 in 8. The more I shoot my 243 the more I wonder why I have other rifles. 105 Hornady BTSP's out to 800 on steel and 80gr mono's for fur.
Sold off my Rem 700 in 243 to a member here. I do have some regrets. That caliber is high on list as is the 7-08 with 162 Amax's.Got too get a COAL on them 162's and see what mag. will accommodate them.
99 outta 100 people would blow their own minds (and all their buddies) out to 600 with a properly set-up .243 flinging good bullets.
People give me strange looks when I say I shoot my 243 @ 600 and farther. Out to 100yds they are ok but from 101yds and farther it has to be a magnum or it just won't make it there.
I would get the 7-08, you will be ahead of the game, I got a feeling its gonna make a huge comeback in the long range game for target and steel. The bullets have better BC and barrel life is a little better..
I think any of the 4 (243,260,7-08,308) would fit the bill with right action, barrel, and bullets. I'm drooley over the 7mm version lately. Thinking 162 Amax for everything beyond 400 and 160 PT/AB for everything to 400. A lot of good bullets in 7mm cal though, including the 168 Berger Classic Hunter, that could also get swapped for the Amax.
In your terms, 1tnhunter, that would be Amax or Berger for LR targets, and 160 PT/AB for hunting. Elk is always in the program here though, and I like bullet weight a lot.
The gun I have had the longest is a Sav99E 308 made in 1969, my father bought it for us used in 1973 to shoot free ammo. He had designed a machine gun, the gov was testing with 7.62x51 belted ammo. My father had come up with a different belt system that feeds from the back so the gun would fit in a turret. There was no selling Rock Island Arsenal anything that was not their idea, so it went away. But lots of cases of the ammo were lying around. Every 5th round was a tracer. I currently have ~ 13 308 rifles, 10 308 dies, and a 308 reamer. But hunting with a 308 would be too big a handicap for me at long range, given my skill level. Bart Bobbitt shot a 3.2" 20 shot group at 800 yards with a 308 in 1997. I am not Bart Bobbitt. I need all the help I can get. The 308 would be a 400 yard gun for me, while the hot rodded 7mmRM is a 500 yard gun for me. I establish my range by always hitting a 12" circle on a big piece of cardboard at that distance.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. -Ernest Hemingway The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything.-- Edward John Phelps
Shooting a 243 with 105 berger hybrids.they are awesome.I have shot 2 nice bucks,an antelope, and a bunch of coyotes. Not sure why you would need much else unless you like more recoil. Having said that,308s are nice.they just kick more.
I bought my T3SL in .308 to 'go with' my 700 5R. Wanted to clear up my reloading desk and keep things simple. If I hadn't already had a .308 I probably would've bought the regular T3 in 7-08 or .243. Wish to God they would come out with a fast twist SL in .243 so I could snag it! Might end up having to just buy a standard T3 or have one made. "Unfortunately", the .308 is so light and accurate it's hard to justify relegating it to second place.
I am trying to get my buddy to buy a decent hunting rifle seeing as he is always borrowing one of mine. I'm attempting to talk him into a SS T3 in .243 so he can hunt rockchucks up to elk with one rifle. Of course, being the great friend I am I told him I would mount his scope, sight it in and do all the reloading for it in exchange for keeping it at my house till he needed to use it! I'm pretty sure I can talk him into it!
It ain't what you don't know that makes you an idiot...it's what you know for certain, that just ain't so...
Most people don't want to believe the truth~they want the truth to be what they believe.
how big an animal will you be hunting? If elk are on the list, that makes the 243 less than ideal and 260 questionable IMO.
For target shooting at LR, it can be hard to see misses hit dirt with a 243.
I have a LR rifle in all 4 cartridges. The 7-08 with berger 168 hunting VLDs is my favorite, great BC and you can see misses. I've had a couple of 260s, currently have a Tikka T3 Sporter, and I compete with a dpms 260, great cartridge. The 308 is a Kimber Tactical and I love it, but the BC really kills it past 800 yards. My 243 is an ackley and is a tackdriver but I can't see dirt fly at LR except under great conditions.
If you were to buy a rifle to do some longrange shooting at targets and also hunt at close to medium range what cartridge would you choose based on the 308?
I never mix business with pleasure. Tweener rifles interest me not.
The first 3 rifles are very heavy. The last 3 very light. The absolute last thing I want is some custom built abortion that lands squarely in the middle. Tweener rifles never satisfy, and are the biggest mistake newbies make when building their first customs. Don't try to build one rifle to do it all. Build the rifle with a specific task in mind, and you won't be sorry later..............
how big an animal will you be hunting? If elk are on the list, that makes the 243 less than ideal and 260 questionable IMO.
For target shooting at LR, it can be hard to see misses hit dirt with a 243.
I have a LR rifle in all 4 cartridges. The 7-08 with berger 168 hunting VLDs is my favorite, great BC and you can see misses. I've had a couple of 260s, currently have a Tikka T3 Sporter, and I compete with a dpms 260, great cartridge. The 308 is a Kimber Tactical and I love it, but the BC really kills it past 800 yards. My 243 is an ackley and is a tackdriver but I can't see dirt fly at LR except under great conditions.
I kinda like tweener rifles..... especially in the .308 based cartridges. 9lb guns that don't recoil much.... tend to get shot a whole lot.
Tweener are easier to shoot than 'light' guns.... and easier to pack than 'heavy' guns. Besides.... I bet my .260 'Tweener' weighs about the same as that Mod. 88 you have there as one of your 'light' rigs..... I have one too (.243).... so I ain't guessin'.
Off to shoot the 'Tweener' now.... maybe we'll put it on film....
You better pray to the God of Skinny Punks that this wind doesn't pick up......
There is no such thing as a heavy recoiling 308 Win IMO.
And 9lbs. isn't exactly squarely in the middle if you look at the pics I posted.
Tweeners are not as good LR as heavy guns. Not as easy to pack as light guns.
Optimal for NEITHER task....
Easier to shoot means just that.... they are more forgiving of shooter inconsistency and other external influences than light (6-7lb) rifles.....
.308 is heavier recoiling than any of the smaller caliber cartridges it has spawned.... and ironically.... that's the only thing it does better. Less recoil equals more shooting.... period.... add better results due to better bullets... and going smaller than .308 is a win/win.
This .260 Rem. weighs between 8.5 and 9lbs as pictured. It got packed 20+ miles this year in the high country of multiple states. It shot/placed solidly at the SRM (39/60) in May, and was easily the lightest rifle on the line.... by 4 lbs. At least two dozen people (women, children, old men.... even Tanner) have made multiple LR hits with this rifle... most of them with no/little prior centerfire rifle experience. I've 'built' a half dozen rifles.... and owned another dozen. This is by far the best rifle I've built for pretty much everything.
Tweeters are a great way to go.... They're like Unicorns.... 8 hotness (shootability/accuracy).... and 4 crazy (heavy).
Today....
WA Sept......
1/2 mile.... cold bore.... 9lb gun...
You better pray to the God of Skinny Punks that this wind doesn't pick up......
I'm with ya on the 'tweeners. My #5 barreled .308 shoots crazy good and is portable enough for the hunting I do. I also like the .260 but have found the .308 easier to develop an accurate load for. Out to 600, the .308 with a proper bullet hangs with the others pretty well. After that the .260 starts to significantly pull ahead.
John
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
Oh well you have changed my mind then. I love tweeners now
Like I said, optimal for nothing IMO......
Funny..... that single rifle I pictured.... can hang with every rifle you pictured..... out to however far you wanna run'em.... or however far you wanna pack'em..... and is probably lighter than 4 outta your 6....
Might not be 'optimal' for anything.... but it's pretty much great at everything.....
You better pray to the God of Skinny Punks that this wind doesn't pick up......
There is a reason why your gun was the lightest by 4lbs.
And there is a reason why they make Mountain Rifles, Finnlights, and Montanas.
IMO it is foolish to think that a single rifle is better suited to 2 completely different tasks (neither for which it was specifically designed) than 2 rifles specifically designed for each task.
But if you want to keep telling yourself that, that is fine by me. Just don't expect me to buy it. I know better......
2muchgun, some guys simply dont prefer light rifles. I prefer lighter rifles, Hondo prefers tweeners. Nothing wrong with either option if it aligns with preference.
2muchgun, some guys simply dont prefer light rifles. I prefer lighter rifles, Hondo prefers tweeners. Nothing wrong with either option if it aligns with preference.
If you actually READ the thread, you will see that I never had a problem with what anybody likes. But they sure do have a problem with what I DON'T like.
I am in a good mood this morning. And certainly not going to argue over rifle preferences.
But I will say a few words . To me a Tweener rifle is something with around a #5 contour barrel around 10ish lbs that somebody designed as a hunting rifle that will also "get used off the bench for some LR target shooting". Many here know I have owned 100s of rifles. I have owned these EXACT guns.
A few of my guns are pictured above. The 3 lighter guns, 2 are under 7.5 lbs. and the 88 different scope now) is right at 8 lbs. FWIW, IIRC 88s were originally spec'd at 7.25 lbs. Many came in closer to 7 lbs., though. No, they are not fly weights. And, I also do not like fly weights much. I gotta have some feel to the rifle. The other guns are obviously a LOT heavier.
My point being, the sub 8 lbs carry easily, handle quickly, and I've yet to find out what they will not kill. Now granted, 625 yds. is my longest kill shot. I'm not shooting across canyons. I simply cannot find a reason to carry a heavier rifle. There is NO need.
The heavy guns pictured are for (custom class) F-class type shoots and 600 yd. egg shoots. They were built to kill targets far away, not critters. I really hope I do not have to explain why they are better suited IMO than a 9-10 lb. tweener rifle for said chore.
Here are some 9-ish pounders I used to shoot LR. A 300 Mag and a 270 WSM. The 270 printed some respectable groups @ 1000yds with 142gr SMKs: Used this scope though. Not the 4-12x40: The above magnums were built for killin'. But the below ones are better for killin' paper:
Anyhoo, I have learned what I like through much trial and error. Not from reading Field and Stream. For me, it's heavy guns for LR targets, and light (but not flyweight) rifles for hunting. I don't get much use or prefer anything that lands in the middle. If you do, that's fine with me. I prefer a tool specialized for each task. Not one that is okay for both, but optimal for neither. JMO. YMMV.
If you were to buy a rifle to do some longrange shooting at targets and also hunt at close to medium range what cartridge would you choose based on the 308?
I have 2 308s that I use a lot, but for this I would rather a 7-08 or 260.
I run my 308 to 600yds often. But consider it a 800yd cartridge with the right bullets. After that, it drops like a brick. The higher BCs of the 7mms and 6.5s make them better LR choices than the 308...........
History is a great teacher if you read it and pay attention to it. Scenarshooter shot a lot of animals with the 308 and 155 Scenars. He then pursued the same with the 260 and Scenars. Now he uses the 6.5 SAUM 4s same Scenars same scope but the rifles and cartridges evolved a way from 308. Much to be learned from one who can and does all the time without having to go thru the whole process for yourself. He has successfully BTDT. If I were pursuing a LR outfit the 6.5 SAUM is where I would start. Magnum Man
He has successfully BTDT. If I were pursuing a LR outfit the 6.5 SAUM is where I would start. Magnum Man
Yep, always best to start with a wildcat cartridge that requires sizing down, fireforming and neck-turning. Especially one that starts with currently unavailable brass.
Of course the 6.5 SAUM is bad-azz, but it appears to be a logistical nightmare.
2MG you got some nice looking rifles. I'm just looking to "play" with the longrange shooting,if what I'm planning on shooting @ is considered LR 500-600 MAX. It'll mainly be used for hunting.
Shooting steel is not as critical but just remember that you need 900-1000 foot pounds of energy to get the bullet to do its job on a 200 pound animal. That number can vary slightly depending on who you ask. Maj. John Plaster subscribes to 1000 ft. lbs. I would use that as a guide in your bullet/cal. selection as that is more critical when killing game. Of course bullet placement is a big part as well. Of all the calibers listed Mojo Hand has it right with flip a coin. I personally would opt for the 7mm-08 as the BC is better on the .284 as opposed to the .308 and has a very good bullet selection as well for the reloader. Ballistics suggests that 550 yards with a 120 grain bullet is no problem for deer with the 7mm-08. I can tell you from experience that it performs fine. Just my 2 cents.
Shooting steel is not as critical but just remember that you need 900-1000 foot pounds of energy to get the bullet to do its job on a 200 pound animal. That number can vary slightly depending on who you ask. Maj. John Plaster subscribes to 1000 ft. lbs. I would use that as a guide in your bullet/cal. selection as that is more critical when killing game. Of course bullet placement is a big part as well. Of all the calibers listed Mojo Hand has it right with flip a coin. I personally would opt for the 7mm-08 as the BC is better on the .284 as opposed to the .308 and has a very good bullet selection as well for the reloader. Ballistics suggests that 550 yards with a 120 grain bullet is no problem for deer with the 7mm-08. I can tell you from experience that it performs fine. Just my 2 cents.
Foot pounds of energy means absolutely nothing with regards to terminal performance and tells you absolutely nothing about how any bullets will perform. It is a completely useless and misleading number.
Bullets have a velocity window. As long as the bullets impacts within that velocity window it will open up and damage tissue.
He has successfully BTDT. If I were pursuing a LR outfit the 6.5 SAUM is where I would start. Magnum Man
Yep, always best to start with a wildcat cartridge that requires sizing down, fireforming and neck-turning. Especially one that starts with currently unavailable brass.
Originally Posted by Bristoe
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
Shooting steel is not as critical but just remember that you need 900-1000 foot pounds of energy to get the bullet to do its job on a 200 pound animal. That number can vary slightly depending on who you ask. Maj. John Plaster subscribes to 1000 ft. lbs. I would use that as a guide in your bullet/cal. selection as that is more critical when killing game. Of course bullet placement is a big part as well. Of all the calibers listed Mojo Hand has it right with flip a coin. I personally would opt for the 7mm-08 as the BC is better on the .284 as opposed to the .308 and has a very good bullet selection as well for the reloader. Ballisticsto suggests that 550 yards with a 120 grain bullet is no problem for deer with the 7mm-08. I can tell you from experience that it performs fine. Just my 2 cents.
Anyone using foot pounds energy foot pounds energy to rate lethality hasn't a clue. Sorry that Palster fits in that category. I have killed too many animals with much less energy and complete penetration.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
He has successfully BTDT. If I were pursuing a LR outfit the 6.5 SAUM is where I would start. Magnum Man
Yep, always best to start with a wildcat cartridge that requires sizing down, fireforming and neck-turning. Especially one that starts with currently unavailable brass.
Of course the 6.5 SAUM is bad-azz, but it appears to be a logistical nightmare.
Most who mess with a wildcat are not just "starting"...generally they have been around the horn a time to two with a variety of rifles and cartridges and have very specific ideas of what they want in the way of cartridge performance,and how they want to accomplish it.
Mostly, they aren't "guessing" about how to get there. Necking up and down, blowing out,scarce brass,expensive dies, and other inconveniences that confound and confuse many are simply minor bumps in the road to them
And since their efforts have given us such things as the 7/08, 260, 25/06,35 Whelan,22-250, 6XC,6.5/284, 7 Rem Mag, and a host of others too numerous to mention ,we should thank the intrepid types as we benefit from their efforts.
So, when a guy with Pat's experience tells you the 6.5 SAUM merits attention,smart people will listen closely to what he has to say about it,even if you don't follow the same path.
He has successfully BTDT. If I were pursuing a LR outfit the 6.5 SAUM is where I would start. Magnum Man
Yep, always best to start with a wildcat cartridge that requires sizing down, fireforming and neck-turning. Especially one that starts with currently unavailable brass.
Of course the 6.5 SAUM is bad-azz, but it appears to be a logistical nightmare.
Most who mess with a wildcat are not just "starting"...generally they have been around the horn a time to two with a variety of rifles and cartridges and have very specific ideas of what they want in the way of cartridge performance,and how they want to accomplish it.
Mostly, they aren't "guessing" about how to get there. Necking up and down, blowing out,scarce brass,expensive dies, and other inconveniences that confound and confuse many are simply minor bumps in the road to them
And since their efforts have given us such things as the 7/08, 260, 25/06,35 Whelan,22-250, 6XC,6.5/284, 7 Rem Mag, and a host of others too numerous to mention ,we should thank the intrepid types as we benefit from their efforts.
So, when a guy with Pat's experience tells you the 6.5 SAUM merits attention,smart people will listen closely to what he has to say about it,even if you don't follow the same path.
Rant over...
He said the same thing as you Bob. He's not dinging the cartridge, just that it takes some handloading experience beyond the basics to begin using it.
Originally Posted by Bristoe
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
Except not because you can buy a die set ready to go and already sized/turned brass from copper creek. So its just like loading any other cartridge with brass and dies available.
Except not because you can buy a die set ready to go and already sized/turned brass from copper creek. So its just like loading any other cartridge with brass and dies available.
He said the same thing as you Bob. He's not dinging the cartridge, just that it takes some handloading experience beyond the basics to begin using it.
[/quote]
Zactly. Got two 7 SAUM's currently....and I need brass that no one has in stock. I ain't the only one either because others have posted ads looking for some in the classifieds.
He has successfully BTDT. If I were pursuing a LR outfit the 6.5 SAUM is where I would start. Magnum Man
Yep, always best to start with a wildcat cartridge that requires sizing down, fireforming and neck-turning. Especially one that starts with currently unavailable brass.
Of course the 6.5 SAUM is bad-azz, but it appears to be a logistical nightmare.
Most who mess with a wildcat are not just "starting"...generally they have been around the horn a time to two with a variety of rifles and cartridges and have very specific ideas of what they want in the way of cartridge performance,and how they want to accomplish it.
Mostly, they aren't "guessing" about how to get there. Necking up and down, blowing out,scarce brass,expensive dies, and other inconveniences that confound and confuse many are simply minor bumps in the road to them
And since their efforts have given us such things as the 7/08, 260, 25/06,35 Whelan,22-250, 6XC,6.5/284, 7 Rem Mag, and a host of others too numerous to mention ,we should thank the intrepid types as we benefit from their efforts.
So, when a guy with Pat's experience tells you the 6.5 SAUM merits attention,smart people will listen closely to what he has to say about it,even if you don't follow the same path.
Rant over...
He said the same thing as you Bob. He's not dinging the cartridge, just that it takes some handloading experience beyond the basics to begin using it.
He said the same thing as you Bob. He's not dinging the cartridge, just that it takes some handloading experience beyond the basics to begin using it.
Zactly. Got two 7 SAUM's currently....and I need brass that no one has in stock. I ain't the only one either because others have posted ads looking for some in the classifieds.[/quote] Took me less than 2mins to find some in stock...
Zactly. Got two 7 SAUM's currently....and I need brass that no one has in stock. I ain't the only one either because others have posted ads looking for some in the classifieds.
What pointer said is true, TAK. You did plainly state that you could not find any. You didn't say anything about the cost.
I think you owe Mr. Pointer an apology.
Travis
Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
Why do you need brass for an imaginary rifle anyway?
Perzactly! Goes well with his imaginary hunts. I have yet to see him post a pic or even a story of actually hunting anything successfully. Hell, I'm fat and lazy yet still have a story or two to tell.
Why do you need brass for an imaginary rifle anyway?
Perzactly! Goes well with his imaginary hunts. I have yet to see him post a pic or even a story of actually hunting anything successfully. Hell, I'm fat and lazy yet still have a story or two to tell.
So, your point is, if I started eating like schidt I'd be a better hunter, and person, like Flave?
That is the stupidest thing I've ever seen in my life. Why don't you post some pullup vids. You can inspire us. Maybe Trav will make a cameo and flail your azz.
That is the stupidest thing I've ever seen in my life. Why don't you post some pullup vids. You can inspire us. Maybe Trav will make a cameo and flail your azz.
TAK,
I'll bet you $8.12 you can't post a video of you doing a pullup.
I'll also bet you $8.12, you can't post a pic of your .308.
Travis
Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
That is the stupidest thing I've ever seen in my life. Why don't you post some pullup vids. You can inspire us. Maybe Trav will make a cameo and flail your azz.
TAK,
I'll bet you $8.12 you can't post a video of you doing a pullup.
I'll also bet you $8.12, you can't post a pic of your .308.
Travis
You win. PM me your address and I'll send you some imaginary brass, you know some of that stuff I've talked about picking up but it was really TAK/Larry Root/whomever TF just making schidt up?
You win. PM me your address and I'll send you some imaginary brass, you know some of that stuff I've talked about picking up but it was really TAK/Larry Root/whomever TF just making schidt up?
I have no idea what any of this means.
Hope you have a great morning.
Travis
Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
That is the stupidest thing I've ever seen in my life. Why don't you post some pullup vids. You can inspire us. Maybe Trav will make a cameo and flail your azz.
I cannot post a pullup video. I can't do a pullup. I'm not here to inspire as that would take gumption that fat folks like me don't have. I all the hunting I've done, which isn't much compared to some, I've never had the need to do a pullup...
I started out with a .243 about 25 years ago.. I have since hunted with almost everything from .243-.338 win mag. In recent years I have sold off everything but two big game rifles. One is a Custom 30-06, that sits in a safe 99% of the time. The other is a .243 win that goes everywhere. You do the math for you, but my journey has come full circle back to the .243 win.
"Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything." Genesis 9:3
I'm not here to inspire as that would take gumption that fat folks like me don't have. I all the hunting I've done, which isn't much compared to some, I've never had the need to do a pullup...
You've done quite a few pullups whilst hunting, then?
Tanner
That comment is really too stupid to deserve an answer, but being the nice guy that I am I will offer up a good one. Really has a LOT to do with LR hunting, LOL.
You've done quite a few pullups whilst hunting, then?
Tanner
That comment is really too stupid to deserve an answer, but being the nice guy that I am I will offer up a good one. Really has a LOT to do with LR hunting, LOL.
Notice what the first 26 words are.
So, you have not done a pushup while hunting. Got it.
After this turned from a good and informative thread into a thread about who sucks and who has or has not been there, done that, my mind drifted off into it's ADHD world. I was thinking that Bud's had some 7SAUM brass in stock recently. I don't know who was seeking it; but, you may want to check it out.
_________________________________________________________________________ “Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
Off topic again; but, several people have pm'd me asking about Buds. Here is their link: http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php If you are not familiar with them, at least as far as firearms go, they offer law enforcement and military discounts.
_________________________________________________________________________ “Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
_________________________________________________________________________ “Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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