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Does anyone know if Ruger has plans for a .458?

It seems to me that should be the next logical step, on the same action as the .375 and .416 with a 22" tube.

Are they having problems with wood stocks for such a cartridge?

Any entrepreneurs among us who have tried that? I'm sure there must be. What results? Should be close to Lott ballistics, I'd think. It sure would hold my interest more than the .375 or .416.

I'm sure JB must know something... smile

Bob

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Nope, not a thing!

My guess (and it would be only that) is a .458 isn't in the plans. With the bullets we have today there's really nothing a .458 Ruger would do that the .375 or .416 Ruger can't, and the market for BIG dangerous-game rifles isn't growing. About the only advantage I can think for a .458 Ruger would be the ability to use cast .45 caliber bullets, but doubt whether that would be major sales factor.


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The 458 Winchester needs it's belt for headspacing. The lack of the magnum belt is one of the selling points for the 375 Ruger. It's difficult to imagine how a 45 caliber Ruger/Hornaday cartridge would be any way significantly different from the existing 458 Winchester.
What say you guys? Are my observations invalid? This is a question, not a challenge...

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If the .450 Hornady had been a spectacular success I might look for a follow on for bolt actions. Time was some writer out there was pushing a .458x2(?) short belted magnum for North American game and north country bears - I suspect whoever was pushing that gave up on it long ago.

I do think the closest thing to an opening for a new .458+ bore cartridge is a shorter action .458 Lott equivalent rather than a .458 Win - maybe to match .458 Win ballistics in a shorter barrel. Might be fat enough to skip the belt but still maybe only 2 in the magazine? By closest thing to an opening I mean it might sell a few the first year and not show up at CDNN until the second season.

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Yes, but how many hundred 458 Rugers would sell in any given year?

The 375 Ruger has a popularity base because it's shorter than the H&H, has more velocity, and does not have a magnum case belt.

What advantage could Ruger/Hornaday offer over the Winchester cartridge? Only velocity...?

If Ruger/Hornaday does this I think it'll be only a niche cartridge

Last edited by idahoguy101; 11/23/14.
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It seems to me that the 45 cal market is not only a niche market, but one in which the fancy isn't near as important as the tried and trusted. Who wants a lighter, shorter Lott, or another, beltless, 458 Win+P?


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There's also the factor of gun sales dropping off in the past few months, and not just at Ruger but across the business. This is mostly because shooters spent record amounts of money buying record numbers of firearms in the year and a half after the second Obama election, but it also probably means most gun-budgets are tapped out.

While they may not be for the people looking to go places where a .458 Ruger might be necessary (or even fun), most of those people also already have their big rifles.


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As long as Ruger keeps producing LH Americans, and expands the lineup, I'm satisfied. I doubt I'll hunt where a 458 Ruger is necessary, but I do plan to hunt where a lesser 45 cal will be fun.


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Originally Posted by idahoguy101
The 458 Winchester needs it's belt for headspacing. The lack of the magnum belt is one of the selling points for the 375 Ruger. It's difficult to imagine how a 45 caliber Ruger/Hornaday cartridge would be any way significantly different from the existing 458 Winchester.
What say you guys? Are my observations invalid? This is a question, not a challenge...



Looking at case drawings of the 416, it shows .515 at the shoulder. With a .015 neck thickness plus .458 bullet, that should leave .027 total shoulder. Gunner500 says .023 on his 400 Whelen, so a 458 would seem doable. That it would offer much more than the Winchester or even match the Lott I have my doubts. Same number in the mag, same length, pretty much the same velocities. But it would give the "pick fly schit from the pepper" crowd another ten pages of bandwidth. wink

Last edited by calikooknic; 11/23/14. Reason: .003diff


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Thanks for your comments, guys. From what you all are thinking, it would look like a no-go from Ruger at this time, and in the current economical climate. I understand that.

But I'll make a couple of observations: 1) If it were strictly a matter of need, we all could get by with one rifle for everything we hunt. I did that many years ago for a long time. I started out, like many Canadians, with a Brit .303, and it would have served for ALL of my game hunting to the present.

The fact that the majority on these types of forums have many/most of the .30-06 case based cartridges, including at least one .30-06 and a .270 or three, proves the point that ANOTHER .458" cartridge isn't needed any more than a .25-06, a .270, a .280, a.30-06, a .35 Whelen, etc. is needed by the same hunter. Or any true Big Bore for that matter.

The % of actual hunters from North America who hunt Africa, for example, is miniscule. In Ontario alone we have an estimated 100,000 moose hunters, and I'd wager that not 10% of them has ever hunted outside Canada. So, another .458 has nothing to do with hunting abroad, as far as I'm personally concerned.

But a relatively short-n-handy .458-caliber, IN A BOLT-ACTION, is very worthwhile to me being a handloader hunting big bears and moose. Yes, I've owned several 1895 Marlins and a few Ruger No.1's in .45-70. And my current No.1 in .45-70 has an extra-long throat and comes very close to the ideal for most of my big game hunting. For one thing, I can use tougher bullets at higher velocity with much better ballistic coefficients.

For moose hunting in Northern Ontario, something that would deal with a big bull in the alders or at 400 yards across a clear-cut would be ideal. I'm talking DIY hunts. A Marlin isn't ideal in any of it's calibers, though they are certainly handy. Then, there are some really big bears in that area due to the fact that they are rarely ever hunted.

Yes, I've read accounts that all you really need is a .270 or .30-06. There are few experienced hunters in this part of the world that travel from Southern Ontario to Northern Ontario (about 1000 miles) to hunt moose (without a pro guide) who actually take a .270 or .30-06. Yes, a few will if they know where they will be hunting and the range will be within a couple of hundred yards, or maybe 300 at most.

But for stopping a big bull moose busting out of the brush at 15 yards in response to a call, they don't want a .277 bullet of 150grs for interrupting a train wreck. Or, on the other hand, for taking on a mature bull -- that can easily go 1100 to 1300 lbs -- on the far side of a clear-cut that's fast departing for another county - or Province! That's why the majority of savvy hunters are toting magnums from 7mm to the .338's, and, still others, even .375's.

Like many of you are thinking, I like to try something new or different. Today, my favorite medium bore is a 9.3 X 62, almost ideal for the conditions described above, especially as I handload it. Going north from here (1600 kms one way), I've taken .45-70's, .300 mags, .338 mags (Win. and Wby.) a .375 H&H and .458 Win Mags. I always take two, one as a backup.

The second observation I make is that, so far, the respondents are mostly from a few western states - Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, etc. And there the traditions are different, though 'Ol Elmer favored Big Bores. Though I've not followed the writings of either Keith or Oconnor that much, I'd be more inclined to Keith's position even though I do use and load "modern" bullets that are supposed to be game changers. I favor Nosler Partitions which are only 70 years old - almost as old as I am - that's ancient!

So, I'd still "like" a short-n-handy Big Bore, like the Rugers in .375 and .416, only in .458" because it could be loaded like "wimpy" factory stuff in .45-70 all the way to a .458 WM, but in a handier package using "modern" bullets. There's a proliferation of .458" bullets that can't be matched by any other Big Bore. I did at one time own a 22" Ruger 77, with tang safety, in .458 WM. It was close to ideal for a .458 in my view. I shot a bear with it @ 70 yards using the 350gr Speer at a little over 2300 fps. Of course, that was a rather mild load which illustrates one of my points.

But thanks for your comments, and keep 'em comin'. smile

Bob

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I found the .375 Ruger enough of a good thing, and did not go for a .416. I expect I would not go for a .458 Ruger although I do have a large box of lead bullets just sitting there. I also bought a bunch of the .375/270 grain Fail Safes before they went away, and this bullet with the .375 Ruger is the answer for the big critters...

jim


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