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Anyone have any insights into the specific differences between these bullets? Would it be worth using the long range version in working up a elk load for a .280 AI? Thanks.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Not 7mm, 6.5mm.
Last weekend, my hunting bud and I each killed a WT doe, he with a 130 gr. NAB at 3,400 fps, me with a 140 NAB at 3,300 fps. Both kills showed small entrance and small exit wounds, fair amount of messed up tissue in between, no blood trail. Mine was hit perfectly behind the shoulder at 100 yds, but due to position, the bullet angled back thru the lungs. His was a low lung shot, too far back, so bullet placement wasn't that good on either doe. They weighed around 130 #'s.
Both ran without blood trails and had to be found. We were shooting our newly built 26 Noslers.
From this series of two dead deer with less than great bullet placement, it seems that the 130 and 140 NAB's may be a bit hard for lung shooting WT's. It's been reported that the 129 ABLR may be slightly softer than the std. NAB. I can't find any ABLR's, they're all on backorder. If they're slightly softer than the regular AB's they may be OK, even for high velocity, close shots.
My bud told me he wants to load his 26 with 140 NPT's. From what I've read, the NAB and the NPT perform pretty close, but he thinks he gets more frag effect from the soft NPT nose than he got from the NAB. He could be right.
DF
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Used used 7mm 160 ABs and 140gr 270s on elk, deer, cougar, and coyote and never had one pencil through. Nothing but good results for me. Coyote from a 270WSM 140AB around 170 yards ![[Linked Image]](http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g364/nwoutdoors/Oregon2008coyote3.jpg)
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I used the 165 @ 2800 fps (Nosler factory loaded 30-06) on my last elk. Small hole in, small hole out and totally messed up circulatory system where it transected the heart region. I know it shed a good amount of mass before exiting given the fragments found during butchering and even found a hunk of jacket w/ bonded lead in the last batch of burger I cooked up. It was a bang flop kill so I have absolutely no complaints about how they function.
According to some of the first users the LRAB are softer than normal Accubonds. Given they are meant to expand down to 1300 fps this makes sense.
If I were to load the LRAB for a 280AI I would go for the 168g version and keep initial speeds moderate. Given its high BC there is no need for screaming velocity and perhaps a good reason NOT to hot rod it since it is designed to expand easy.
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Jesus.
People bitchin on the TTSX thread about bullets expanding too much. Bitchin here about bullets not expanding enough.
If I were a bullet maker, the customers would probably drive to manufacture wallets or something.
I probably hit more elk with a pickup than you have with a rifle. I have yet to see anyone claim Leupold has never had to fix an optic. I know I have sent a few back. 2 MK 6s, a VX-6, and 3 VX-111s.
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Registered: 09/23/06
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Killed a bull Elk with the 168gr from a 280 AI last week..409 yards uphill bullet clipped the edge of the scapula going in made about an inch and a half bloodshot entrance hole, made an inch hole thru both lungs and did not exit..I really didn't look much for the bullet it was getting late and we needed to get the meat packed out...at the shot the bull lunged up on it's rear legs then walked about 30 yards and fell over dead !
I posted this in another forum a couple of weeks ago !
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Campfire Ranger
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I shot a buck of about 180+ on the hoof at about 75 yards with an angling (toward me) shot that just missed the the near shoulder and ended up just under the skin at the rear of the rib cage on the far side. He went down where he stood. The bullet was perfectly expanded.
Later the same year I shot another buck at about 25 yards of about the same weight on an almost perfect broadside shot with a slight downward angle. He too, went down in his tracks. Complete penetration.
The load was the 160 Accubond and a mild load at 2850 fps from a 7 Mag. Guaranteed at the velocities you state there was no lack of expansion.
NRA Life,Endowment,Patron or Benefactor since '72.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Not 7mm, 6.5mm.
Last weekend, my hunting bud and I each killed a WT doe, he with a 130 gr. NAB at 3,400 fps, me with a 140 NAB at 3,300 fps. Both kills showed small entrance and small exit wounds, fair amount of messed up tissue in between, no blood trail. Mine was hit perfectly behind the shoulder at 100 yds, but due to position, the bullet angled back thru the lungs. His was a low lung shot, too far back, so bullet placement wasn't that good on either doe. They weighed around 130 #'s.
Both ran without blood trails and had to be found. We were shooting our newly built 26 Noslers.
From this series of two dead deer with less than great bullet placement, it seems that the 130 and 140 NAB's may be a bit hard for lung shooting WT's. It's been reported that the 129 ABLR may be slightly softer than the std. NAB. I can't find any ABLR's, they're all on backorder. If they're slightly softer than the regular AB's they may be OK, even for high velocity, close shots.
My bud told me he wants to load his 26 with 140 NPT's. From what I've read, the NAB and the NPT perform pretty close, but he thinks he gets more frag effect from the soft NPT nose than he got from the NAB. He could be right.
DF DF: What you may be seeing is that the AB is not tough enough to maintain a broad mushroom under the high impact velocity and rpm's of 3400 fps at close range.The expanded petals are being torn off,leaving a bullet diameter shank to punch on through.The base is tough enough to resist being torn up. A couple of friends are texting me now saying they see more damage from the Partition on elk than the AB....interesting. Might be fun to see what those bullets do past 300 yards after they have slowed down a bit.
Last edited by BobinNH; 11/25/14.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Bob, you may be right. There was internal damage to these does; shot placement was the problem, not so much the bullet.
My hunting bud has so much experience with and confidence in Partitions, it doesn't take much "experimenting" with other projectiles to point him back to the tried and true.
I'll never convince him NAB performance is pretty close to NPT...
JB had slightly better accuracy with the 140 NPT vs. the 140 NAB in his 26 Nosler article. JGRaider used 160 NAB's in his 7RM for his African safari and to good effect. In his Tikka the NAB reportedly shot better than the NPT.
So, I would think the one to use is the one your rifle likes...
DF
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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One difference I've noticed between AB's and Partitions is recovered AB's often end up with a wider frontal mushroom, due to the tapered jacket supporting the bonded core. With Partitions the front core partially or completely disappears (which is what they were designed to do), and the remains of the front jacket peel back along the sides. Though that's a pretty small difference in overall performance.
The jackets on the ABLR's aren't as thick at the base and sides as ont he "standard" AccuBonds, to help expansion at longer ranges where velocity has dropped off. This would tend to encourage even wider expansion at close ranges.
I have seen Partitions shoot a little more accurately than AccuBonds in a number of rifles, but in every instance I suspected this was due to being able to seat Partitions closer to the lands, due to magazine-space limitations with the AB's plastic tips.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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One difference I've noticed between AB's and Partitions is recovered AB's often end up with a wider frontal mushroom, due to the tapered jacket supporting the bonded core. With Partitions the front core partially or completely disappears (which is what they were designed to do), and the remains of the front jacket peel back along the sides..... I have seen the same thing in the 200 gr AB's from elk....they do seem to have more frontal area than Partitions I have recovered.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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DF,
I have shot several deer with the 130 AB out of my .264. The jury is still out for me. No bang flops and all ran a short distance - less than 50 yards; not much blood either. I am not handloading right now and my factory 264 choices are very limited. The 140 grain core-lokts are softer than you would think (at least at 264 velocity) and I have found a couple under the hide that were a mangled mess of metal and nothing like the pic of the deadliest mushroom in the woods. The WW Powerpoints are even softer, but they do kill pretty dramatically.
I wish Nosler would load the 264 in a 140 BT. I think that would be about perfect for my hunting.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Not 7mm, 6.5mm.
Last weekend, my hunting bud and I each killed a WT doe, he with a 130 gr. NAB at 3,400 fps, me with a 140 NAB at 3,300 fps. Both kills showed small entrance and small exit wounds, fair amount of messed up tissue in between, no blood trail. Mine was hit perfectly behind the shoulder at 100 yds, but due to position, the bullet angled back thru the lungs. His was a low lung shot, too far back, so bullet placement wasn't that good on either doe. They weighed around 130 #'s.
Both ran without blood trails and had to be found. We were shooting our newly built 26 Noslers.
From this series of two dead deer with less than great bullet placement, it seems that the 130 and 140 NAB's may be a bit hard for lung shooting WT's. It's been reported that the 129 ABLR may be slightly softer than the std. NAB. I can't find any ABLR's, they're all on backorder. If they're slightly softer than the regular AB's they may be OK, even for high velocity, close shots.
My bud told me he wants to load his 26 with 140 NPT's. From what I've read, the NAB and the NPT perform pretty close, but he thinks he gets more frag effect from the soft NPT nose than he got from the NAB. He could be right.
DF DF: What you may be seeing is that the AB is not tough enough to maintain a broad mushroom under the high impact velocity and rpm's of 3400 fps at close range.The expanded petals are being torn off,leaving a bullet diameter shank to punch on through.The base is tough enough to resist being torn up. A couple of friends are texting me now saying they see more damage from the Partition on elk than the AB....interesting. Might be fun to see what those bullets do past 300 yards after they have slowed down a bit. I am in agreement with Bob here. I think the AB's are an okay bullet in most cases, but I suspect what he says about them not being strong enough to support the frontal area is true.. Here is a 200AB from a 300RUM started at 3200, recovered from a very dead elk shot at 530 yards. ![[Linked Image]](http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww233/beretzs/BULLETS/308%20bullets/9FC807B0-3798-4624-A9FC-0065C88785DB_zpsblxbyt13.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww233/beretzs/BULLETS/308%20bullets/FC3B13F9-E380-4FD0-B7E3-CAD767B4D199_zpsckjp0pw4.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww233/beretzs/BULLETS/308%20bullets/7B26947A-358F-450B-9EB3-98FD15B3436B_zps7fqv7dh6.jpg) Not arguing the effectiveness of the AB, cause it obviously worked as the elk went no where, but tumbled down the mountain, but I was surprised the bullet didn't hold up a little better.. This bullet entered high on the rear of the ribs, hitting liver, and one lung, coming to rest against the far side scapula, cracking it pretty nicely..
Semper Fi
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Campfire 'Bwana
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The bullet makers need to quit living in the past and utilize 21st century technology to produce bullets that, once chambered, can be dialed up (through some simple process) to perform perfectly at the distance to the target of interest (little Scovillism there).
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)
Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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DF,
I have shot several deer with the 130 AB out of my .264. The jury is still out for me. No bang flops and all ran a short distance - less than 50 yards; not much blood either. I am not handloading right now and my factory 264 choices are very limited. The 140 grain core-lokts are softer than you would think (at least at 264 velocity) and I have found a couple under the hide that were a mangled mess of metal and nothing like the pic of the deadliest mushroom in the woods. The WW Powerpoints are even softer, but they do kill pretty dramatically.
I wish Nosler would load the 264 in a 140 BT. I think that would be about perfect for my hunting. Maybe high velocity causes such shock to the tissues that there is less bleeding than an '06 at 2,850 fps with a std. C&C bullet. Those tend to bleed pretty well, entrance and exit, IME. Seems as the velocity goes up, terminal performance changes and not always as one would expect. In this business, everything seems to be a trade off, one way or the other. DF
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Campfire Tracker
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Which is why Elmer Keith said some 80 years ago that muzzle velocities between 2400 and 2800fps give the most consistent performance.
Not much has changed.
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Scotty: Interesting to compare tat bullet to the one's recovered from Matt's elk. I recall they seem to have had more frontal area left,even though, given the different starting velocity (3050-300 Weatherby vs 300 RUM 3200)the impact velocities were roughly the same,both a bit over 2300 fps if I read the tables right (400 vs 530 yards). But the thing that's different is the rpm's being higher with the 300 RUM and I wonder out loud if that causes the difference in the expansion and what's left of the bullet.Tough to tell from a sample of three... Doesn't matter really as your bullet resembles an expanded Partition and that ain't a bad place to be. 
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Which is why Elmer Keith said some 80 years ago that muzzle velocities between 2400 and 2800fps give the most consistent performance.
Not much has changed. Elmer had been there, done that, for sure. His mind set was more 19th century, favoring bullet mass over velocity, although he did shoot some big slugs pretty fast. For LR shooting, high vel with sleek bullets seems to have a place. One size can't fit all. Loonies are always pushing the envelope, which is what makes it fun. I'm enjoying working with the 26 Nosler, just not sure it kills better at 100-200 yds. than a std. round. Maybe at extended ranges, it'll show its stuff. Plus, it burns a lot of powder, makes a bunch of noise...  What's not to like...  DF
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I'm always astonished when people shoot lead-cored bullets into animals and then are astonished when the bullets lose some weight, yet the animal still dies.
If we want out bullets to come out looking exactly the same every time, then we need to shoot bullets without lead inside. It's that simple. Or at least it is most of the time. I've recovered a number of "no weight loss" bullets that lost some weight, but oddly enough they were all from dead animals.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire Ranger
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Which is why Elmer Keith said some 80 years ago that muzzle velocities between 2400 and 2800fps give the most consistent performance.
Not much has changed. King Solomon wrote in Ecclesiastes: "There is nothing new under the sun." Elmer's words are true. I have killed several truck loads of animals with my trusty off the shelf Ruger All Weather in 280 Remington shooting off the shelf 150 CoreLokts @ 2820 fps average. Once I began record keeping, my last 48 kills required 50 rounds fired. I have started using AB's and suffered no loss of performance. They are running 2950 fps. I have learned by my experience with the commercial loads that 2800 fps will put anything on the ground.
"I never thought I'd live to see the day that a U.S. president would raise an army to invade his own country."
Robert E. Lee
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