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How many consider the 10mm a good option for deer hunting with a handgun?


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The 10mm with a good bullet will take deer just fine IMHO



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A couple of days ago, I sow some Hornady Critical Defense 10mm loads featuring a 175 grain bullet. I wouldn't hesitate to poke one with that load if I had a chance.


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200 grain .40 caliber XTP @ 1,250 fps... sure. In fact, that is the load I plan on taking in the timber for our December Alternative Methods/Muzzleloader season.


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Originally Posted by bea175
How many consider the 10mm a good option for deer hunting with a handgun?
I wouldn't consider it a "good option" where there are so many better ones available. I'm sure it would be fine. Those that consider the 10 to be "about the same as a 41 Mag." are wrong. The 41 will always hold more powder than the 10 and always be more powerful, all things equal. In the real world, things are never equal though and it is a nice round for a manageable sized semi-auto. No doubt the 40 would do fine too. I've got pistols in 45 Colt, 44 Mag., 41 Mag., and 44-40 in my safe that would all best the 10...not that they're necessarily even needed. I'm sure you've got most, if not all, of these as well. In reality, the 10 is about like a 357 Mag. which many think is too light for deer, especially if the aforementioned are available. I think the 357 is fine too.

It's just whatever one wants to use or has to.

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Loaded correctly, the 10mm is good deer medicine. Nothing wrong with it. As long as the shooter is competent with his firearm, it'll get it done with aplomb. Deer aren't particularly heavily constructed, so you can get away with a decent expanding bullet. I killed a couple of wild hogs with a Glock 20 this summer and it worked like a charm, loaded with Federal 180 grain Trophy Bonded JSPs.


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The 10mm round (not 40 S&W loads in a 10mm case) is just fine, it compares quite well with 41 magnum fired from 4" or shorter barrels. It beats 357 from barrels that short and is closer to 44 magnum than given credit for.

All of the published numbers you see for magnum revolver rounds are from 7.5" or 8" test barrels. When fired from shorter barrels they don't come close, and 8" barreled guns are almost never actually used. Expect 200-400 fps less speed than published numbers if you are using a 4" or shorter barrel

All of the published numbers you see from semi auto rounds come from either 4.5 or 5" test barrels, which is exactly what is used in the real world and pretty close to what you'll get.

I consider a 10mm a good outdoors SD weapon that gives true magnum revolver power in a smaller, lighter package with 2.5X more ammo capacity. It still wouldn't be my 1st choice if I wanted to hunt with a handgun, but used within it's range limitations is a viable option.

I'd still choose a revolver if I wanted a dedicated hunting handgun. A 6" or longer barrel will get you closer to published speeds than 4". That along with the longer sighting plane and generally better triggers means a more accurate gun.


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The 10mm is an excellent deer cartridge, if the right bullet is used. That is, something that penetrates well, unlike the many very tender self defense bullets on the market. I'm going to try to test the 150gr CEP Raptor this season but it will be running about 1500fps out of a .38-40.

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Killed a big bodied Axis buck with mine using a BB Gold Dot. 10mm and .40 are plenty for deer and hogs.

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The TN hog I shot with mine, NOR the badly damaged oak tree behind him considered my 10mm to be anything other than very bad news.

And no, the 10mm is NOT "About like a 357" the 10mm throws a 40 caliber, 180 grain bullet at about the same speed a 357 tosses a 35 caliber 125gr bullet. That would be 1300-1400fps. My loads with AA#9 chronograph 1375.

The two are not even kissin cousins, power wise.


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Beal, you were on that TN hunt wherin I shot the hog with my 10, and yes I DO consider my 10mm to be MORE than adequate for shooting a deer, if I could get one within the limitation of my ability to make a sure bullet placement.
I finished off a rifle hit hog with a brain pan shot using my 10 on that same hunt and trip, and at close range every single bit of brain matter was removed from that hogs head.

Damned thing was as empty as the brain pan of a typical Democrat after that shot.


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From Ballistics by the inch:

Delta Elite 10mm (5")
180 gr JHC BB 1,374 fps
175 gr STHP WW 1,209 fps

S&W M57 .41 Mag (4")
180 gr DPX CB 1,221 fps
175 gr STHP WW 1,108 fps

S&W M 29 .44 mag (4")
240 gr HS FED 1,094 fps
200 gr GDHP SPEER 1,009 fps

S&W 686 .357 mag (4")
158 gr HS FED 1,248 fps

Looks like the 10mm is at or near the top of the heap when compared to any revolver caliber with a 4" barrel (which is equivalent to a 5" auto after accounting for chamber length).

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Originally Posted by safariman
The TN hog I shot with mine, NOR the badly damaged oak tree behind him considered my 10mm to be anything other than very bad news.

And no, the 10mm is NOT "About like a 357" the 10mm throws a 40 caliber, 180 grain bullet at about the same speed a 357 tosses a 35 caliber 125gr bullet. That would be 1300-1400fps. My loads with AA#9 chronograph 1375.

The two are not even kissin cousins, power wise.



Why do you post this BS? A fully loaded 125 is at least 300 FPS faster than a 180 grain 10mm. A fully loaded 357 158 grain is about 1400 FPS out of my 4" M-19

1. 3 inch S&W J frame

a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard cast LFN = 1302 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC (jacketed hollow cavity) = 1299 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1398 fps
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1476 fps

2. 4 inch S&W L frame Mt. Gun

a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard cast LFN = 1375 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr JHC = 1411 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1485 fps
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1603 fps


https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=103

This is at least the second time that you have posted this and ignored the correction the first time obviously.



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Originally Posted by K1500
From Ballistics by the inch:

Delta Elite 10mm (5")
180 gr JHC BB 1,374 fps
175 gr STHP WW 1,209 fps

S&W M57 .41 Mag (4")
180 gr DPX CB 1,221 fps
175 gr STHP WW 1,108 fps

S&W M 29 .44 mag (4")
240 gr HS FED 1,094 fps
200 gr GDHP SPEER 1,009 fps

S&W 686 .357 mag (4")
158 gr HS FED 1,248 fps

Looks like the 10mm is at or near the top of the heap when compared to any revolver caliber with a 4" barrel (which is equivalent to a 5" auto after accounting for chamber length).



I have chrono'ed the BB and older Remington 240 grain loads at 1400 FPS. The loads you list above are in the 44 special high end range. The 357 loads you list are not at low as well from my own chronographed results of other ammo.



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Originally Posted by K1500
S&W M 29 .44 mag (4")
240 gr HS FED 1,094 fps
200 gr GDHP SPEER 1,009 fps

Looks like the 10mm is at or near the top of the heap when compared to any revolver caliber with a 4" barrel (which is equivalent to a 5" auto after accounting for chamber length).

Yeah, uh, no. Those are not top end revolver loads and you're obviously looking at energy anyway. An absolute top end 10mm load is a 220gr at 1200fps. The .41Mag can get 265's to over 1300fps. Meanwhile, the .44Mag tops out at 355's at 1250fps and Ruger only .45Colt with 360's at 1100fps. So no, while it's very capable, it's nowhere near the top of the heap.

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Originally Posted by safariman
The TN hog I shot with mine, NOR the badly damaged oak tree behind him considered my 10mm to be anything other than very bad news.

And no, the 10mm is NOT "About like a 357" the 10mm throws a 40 caliber, 180 grain bullet at about the same speed a 357 tosses a 35 caliber 125gr bullet. That would be 1300-1400fps. My loads with AA#9 chronograph 1375.

The two are not even kissin cousins, power wise.


Remington 125 grain JHP ammo will be in the same ball park. You should compare top ends loads to top end loads.

Here is another 357 125 grain load that the 10 mm 180 can't touch for speed

http://www.underwoodammo.com/357magnum125grainjhpboxof50.aspx


Built to the tightest tolerances for peak performance rivaling and sometimes surpassing handloads in many guns. This ammunition is new production, non-corrosive, in boxer primed, reloadable brass cases.

XTP Bullets feature a performance-improved point that has 6 precise folds to divide the bullet into symmetrical sections and initiate controlled expansion at low velocities while not fragmenting at higher velocities. They expand reliably at a wide range of velocities for a deep, terminal penetration with every shot. This ammunition is new production, non-corrosive, in boxer-primed, reloadable brass cases.

Technical Information

Caliber: 357 Magnum
Bullet Weight: 125 Grains
Bullet Style: Hornady XTP Jacketed Hollow Point
Case Type: Brass

Ballistics Information:

Muzzle Velocity: 1700 fps
Muzzle Energy: 802 ft. lbs.

Ruger SP101 3" Barrel
Muzzle Velocity: 1500 fps

Ruger GP100 6" Barrel
Muzzle Velocity: 1700 fps



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Originally Posted by CraigC
Originally Posted by K1500
S&W M 29 .44 mag (4")
240 gr HS FED 1,094 fps
200 gr GDHP SPEER 1,009 fps

Looks like the 10mm is at or near the top of the heap when compared to any revolver caliber with a 4" barrel (which is equivalent to a 5" auto after accounting for chamber length).

Yeah, uh, no. Those are not top end revolver loads and you're obviously looking at energy anyway. An absolute top end 10mm load is a 220gr at 1200fps. The .41Mag can get 265's to over 1300fps. Meanwhile, the .44Mag tops out at 355's at 1250fps and Ruger only .45Colt with 360's at 1100fps. So no, while it's very capable, it's nowhere near the top of the heap.


That is looking at velocity from the ballistics by the inch website. They have not chrono'ed every load, so I grabbed the most comparable ones. Your loads and your guns and your chrono may be different. Out of a 4" barrel, off the shelf factory ammo for the magnum revolvers is not much better (and is quite often worse) than off the shelf 10mm ammo from a 5" barrel.

Yes, top end .41 and 44 loads should trump top end 10mm loads. That isn't really the point. The point is this: if a guy thinks a factory loaded .41 or .44 out of a 4" revolver is up to the task (whatever the task is....deer, bear, breaking rocks, etc) than one of the full power factory 10mm loads is equally up to the same task.

Super hot loads out of long barrels is another story, and I am not asserting otherwise. At various times for outdoor use I carry or use a 3" .357, an 4 5/8" .357, and a 4" .44 magnum, all with factory ammo from Win/Fed/Rem/Speer. I am happy to know that when I carry a 10mm with hotter loads I equal or exceed the performance of those guns with a factory load. That's it. Not that the 10 is better than a hot loaded .44 out of an 8" barrel, as it is clearly not. It is *close enough* to factory loads out of a short barrel to get the job done.

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A lot of 37 and 44 mag loads are not to to end specs. Remington, Double Tap, Buffalo Bore, Underwood Ammo and some of the Winchester rounds will be much higher velocity than the loads you listed, which are 38+P and 44 Special +P territory. Compare top end loads to top end loads. If you are using watered down 357 and 44 mags loads then list the 10mm watered down factory loads.

When I chrono my I used a 4" and 6" M-19 some loads were faster in the 4", some loads were faster in the 6" and some were nearly a dead heat. As to the 44 I used a M-26-2 with a 6 1/2" barrel. I have 2 of them and one is 50 to 80 FPS slowere than the other with the same loads on the same day.

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It's not even in the same ballpark. I don't know what the deal is with the loads tested by BBTI but they are anemic. My moderate Unique loads run in that velocity range. The Federal load listed is a self defense load, as are all the others. Bottom line is, they tested better 10mm loads and there is very little that can be assessed from the results of such limited testing.

And energy is meaningless.

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Ok. Just a point of clarification, since you said it twice. The above from BBTI is NOT energy, it is VELOCITY in fps.

Another point of reference, the .44 mag 240gr hydra shock load clocked in at 1,296 fps from a 6.5" model 629 and only 1,094 fps from a 4" model 629. These are velocities, not energy. The point is magnum revolver cartridges apparently lose A LOT when stepping down to a 4" barrel. It dropped off 202 fps, which is a bunch.

I own several magnum revolvers and only one 10mm, so I don't think it is bias on my part.

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That also depends largely on the revolver and factors such as the cylinder gap. I have seen plenty of examples of .44 Mags that do not lose a whole lot of velocity when compared to 6-inch models.


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The Gun Digest Book of Hunting Revolvers:
https://youtu.be/zKJbjjPaNUE

Bovine Bullet Test
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmtZky8T7-k&t=35s

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I use 10mm's....have a couple of them. Yes, they would do just
fine for deer. Not my first choice, but I would try it.
I prefer my .44's......but 10mm is a formidable weapon....just
ask Sonny Crockett...


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Originally Posted by K1500
Ok. Just a point of clarification, since you said it twice. The above from BBTI is NOT energy, it is VELOCITY in fps.

Another point of reference, the .44 mag 240gr hydra shock load clocked in at 1,296 fps from a 6.5" model 629 and only 1,094 fps from a 4" model 629. These are velocities, not energy. The point is magnum revolver cartridges apparently lose A LOT when stepping down to a 4" barrel. It dropped off 202 fps, which is a bunch.

I own several magnum revolvers and only one 10mm, so I don't think it is bias on my part.


I have seen 4" revolvers chrono faster than 6" revolvers on the same day with the same ammo. I have also seen them chrono nearly the same speed, it all depends on the ammo and the individual revolvers being used.
The Hydro Shock loads by Federal have never been much over 1200 FPS loads and are not top end 44 mag loads.


Check this link

http://www.ballistics101.com/44_magnum.php



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I love my 10mm but to say it is the same or close to 41 mag performance is silly.


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One thing that can be said for the G20 packing 15 rd. clips of some hot stuff. For just a woods buming gun I really don't think it can be beat. I know a little off the subject. But 30 rds., 2 15 rd. clips,of some pretty hot 180gr. anyflavor in a super light carry package is kinda nice. Especially when your max. your vel. out with 6 inch KKM barrel.

And while I am thinking about it. I know and most eveyone on here knows it is the 1st shot that counts. I have reviewed countless video clips of old timey wheel gun hunters, and one claim that was contstantly made by them almost without exception was when hunting with a handgun, "They preferred to get as many shots off as possible when using a handgun, of course after that first well place shot" Of course this was pre polymer guns with rounds that could be considered "Deer rounds"
And this to was pretty much before scoped pistols became the norm. Iron sights, and scoped hand guns 2 different animals. I have had bucks checking scrapes that I could not get on with my big 2x scoped ruger .454. While I am almost certain if I had iron sighted 10, it would have been no problem. Scoped hand guns for me personally are out, eye relief just to critical for any type of moving game. Now if your in a blind waiting on something to come into a particular area that may be different.

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Originally Posted by K1500
Ok. Just a point of clarification, since you said it twice. The above from BBTI is NOT energy, it is VELOCITY in fps.

Thank you for pointing out the obvious. I understand that but one can only assume that when you say "Looks like the 10mm is at or near the top of the heap when compared to any revolver caliber with a 4" barrel", that you are looking at energy figures.

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Originally Posted by j2dogs
For just a woods buming gun I really don't think it can be beat.

Maybe for a Glockophile but I'd rather have something with sights and a trigger more conducive to accurate shooting beyond 15yds.

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Granted 1911 platform can offer a much more refined trigger. But if you work with a Glock trigger enough, it is no problem to reach out farther then you think.

This group was shot of a bench rest at a measured 35 yds.
[Linked Image]
Yesterday at the range I shot several coffee saucer sized groups seated resting of my knees at a measured 70 yds. So, yes it can be accomplished with some practice.

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Originally Posted by CraigC
Originally Posted by j2dogs
For just a woods buming gun I really don't think it can be beat.

Maybe for a Glockophile but I'd rather have something with sights and a trigger more conducive to accurate shooting beyond 15yds.


Sights are easily changed, triggers can be manipulated for a better result also. I'm not a "Glockophile" but after a few changes I am very surprised by how well I shoot my G20 with decent ammunition.


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I shot Glocks for 15yrs, you're not going to tell me anything I don't already know.

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Not a glockophil either.As a matter of fact that is the only one I have. I have shot them for 20 years, they are kinda ugly in my opinion, but they do have a niche that many shooters capitalize on.

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j2dogs,

VERY good shooting there!

One thing that I think people overlook about the 10mm is its of shootability. Folks who do not shoot handguns a great deal can, IMO, do better with the relatively modest recoil of the big 10 than they would be able to a ccomplish with, say, a 44 Magnum shooting full house ammo. Much the way a shooter who does not practice a lot will shoot a 243 far better than a 30/06 in many cases.

Part of that equation is how much better a Glock 20 or a 1911 in 10mm handles and distributes recoil VS a traditional revolver.
I, myself do not get out to shoot nearly as much as I used to but I can get pretty respectable groups first shots downrange with my RIA 10mm and formerly my Delta Elite than I can my large bore revolver until I am practiced up again.

I have seen this with brand new shooters as well. Just some basic instruction on focusing on the sights VS the target, proper grip, and trigger control and they are shooting very respectfully with the 10 whereas with a 44 Magnum revolver the muzzle flip and noise and such make good concentration a bit harder in most cases.

Th e G-20 is a very good choice for a woods bumming gun for sure. If I did not have a 23 ounce 329PD, a Glock 20 could fill its role quite nicely. I have gone back and forth between the two several times now and niether is a poor choice by any stretch.


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Originally Posted by CraigC
I shot Glocks for 15yrs, you're not going to tell me anything I don't already know.


Of course not... smile


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Friends,

No dog in this fight. That said, it has been my experience and observations that factory 44 mag from the major manufacturers is pretty mild. With proper loads, the 10mm is not even close to a hot .41 or .44.

That said, it still is an excellent performer and from a purely practical standpoint, the large framed Glock 10 mm with its high capacity and soft shooting characteristics is a stellar field gun. I've owned 3 G20s over the years and currently my G21 .45 is set up to also run 10mm.

Even long time Glock shooters, who often are cops who rarely shoot past the 25 yard line, are very often surprised at the accuracy that can be wrung out of the platform, with the exception of the .40 Glocks, which is a whole other subject.

.45 Glocks seem to be especially accurate and though it ruffles feathers, I've seen MANY factory 1911s that could not hang accuracy wise with a G 21 and the compact G30. In fact G30s are one of the true accuracy "sleepers" of the .45 world.

They will never hang with my Les Baer but my G21 will put a couple of my Colts to shame.

The 10mm versions on average don't seem to be quite the tack drivers that the .45s are but they are still substantially more accurate than most give credit for.

With that said, I would not hesitate to hunt deer sized game with a 10mm. Do I believe it's an equivalent of the .41 or .44? Not a chance.

However I do think highly of the large framed Glocks for field guns and consider them an excellent choice when needing a self defense sidearm in bear/wolf/mountain lion country.

In the morning I am heading elk hunting. I will be taking both a 5" .44 Magnum and a semi auto. This time however I am strongly debating skipping the usual Glock .45 and packing my Les Baer. The Glock is more practical but the Baer is an easy shooting Tack driver.....

Decisions decisions..

Cheers!




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The 10mm is good performer especially out of a revolver. While I have 11 center-fire revolvers, I don't have a 41 magnum so I don't have first hand experience with them. However, my experience is that the 10mm is clearly more powerful than a 357 magnum (have 2 of those). A stout load out of the revolver will drive a 208 grain bullet over 1400 fps. In fact the velocity was [Linked Image] for a bullet weighing [Linked Image] and you can see there is no sign of pressure at this. [Linked Image]

That round yields about 922 ft/lbs of energy from a 6.5" revolver and I can't think of any 357 mags above that, in fact, a lot of factory 41 mags don't claim that much power. My standard load is a 180 XTP at 1252 from the 1911 and it serves me well but more power is there if you need that and don't want to go to a different caliber. The 10mm is designed to operate at a higher pressure than the 357 or 41 mag so that helps it in performance. YMMV

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Mackay,

Is the 21-to-20 conversion just a barrel and Mag?

Got a G29 for a song a few years back thinking I could just drop a G20 barrel in it and be deer legal in Tenn.: wrong!

In meantime got a 21SF that's not nearly accurate as my USP 45C, and converting it to 10mm has appeal.



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Buffalo Bore Ammunition Ballistics
** Loads below specified 6.5" BBL **
Round Type Weight Muzzle Energy ft�lb Muzzle Velocity ft/sec.
41 Magnum HP-GC----265 -1072-------1350
41 Magnum JHP -------230- 1074-------1450
41 Magnum HCWC----170 -1028--------1650



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Originally Posted by K1500
Ok. Just a point of clarification, since you said it twice. The above from BBTI is NOT energy, it is VELOCITY in fps.

Another point of reference, the .44 mag 240gr hydra shock load clocked in at 1,296 fps from a 6.5" model 629 and only 1,094 fps from a 4" model 629. These are velocities, not energy. The point is magnum revolver cartridges apparently lose A LOT when stepping down to a 4" barrel. It dropped off 202 fps, which is a bunch.

I own several magnum revolvers and only one 10mm, so I don't think it is bias on my part.


I also have no dog in this fight - but I have never seen any load lose 100 fps per inch. Usually more like 30 to 50 fps.


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I don't own a chrono so all I can go off of is BBTI. I guess I have all the dogs in the hunt (except the .41) since I own and use .44's, .357's, and a 10mm with barrels from 3" to 6.5". I just found it interesting the drastic difference between a 4" and 6.5" in a .44, and how close the listed loads were in .41/.44/10mm.

It was way closer than I thought, but as I have been informed emphatically by several posters that BBTI is doing one or more of the following: They are FOS / they cherry picked slow loads for everything but the 10mm / they made up data/or something. After all, it is not possible that the 10mm could be anywhere close to any of the magnum cartridges.

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I am fixing to find out!!!!!I just picked up a new G20SF at the gun show today....I am not much of a Glock fan, but it just felt right when I picked it up.


“When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.”
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Originally Posted by CraigC
Originally Posted by j2dogs
For just a woods buming gun I really don't think it can be beat.

Maybe for a Glockophile but I'd rather have something with sights and a trigger more conducive to accurate shooting beyond 15yds.


Well I despise Glock so.......

But this is my baby!
(15 shots) Accurate and great handling!

[Linked Image]


https://thehandloadinglog.wordpress.com
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208 gr at 1400 fps.....

I don't know.

1200 should be right at max.


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Originally Posted by Fotis
Originally Posted by CraigC
Originally Posted by j2dogs
For just a woods buming gun I really don't think it can be beat.

Maybe for a Glockophile but I'd rather have something with sights and a trigger more conducive to accurate shooting beyond 15yds.


Well I despise Glock so.......

But this is my baby!
(15 shots) Accurate and great handling!

[Linked Image]


I actually considered a witness before I got my Glock very handsome gun. But documented issue's with frame and slide cracking that seemed to be specific to the 10mm turned me off.

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Those issues do not plague this model. It was the Wonderfinish slides that cracked. Not the blued or SS.

Plus just to be on the safe side first thing I did was to add this lil gem


HUGE diff!


http://www.sprinco.com/recoil.html


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That spring should definitely help for sure.

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