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#9374556 11/28/14
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With kids getting older and guns becoming more valuable I'm looking to retire my gun cabinet I built in High School and get a safe.

Wondering which brands and models I should be looking into?

I know these things can be quite heavy, is trying to get one into a basement a bad idea?

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Fort Knox, Champion, Liberty are some good ones and a reputable dealer should have a safe dolly that is made for going up or down stairs.

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I have a 36 and 2 24s in my basement, getting 'em in the basement was easy, the gravity thing helped. Getting 'em out will be the kids problem.

My wife sells 'em, she has a safe dolly, like a hand truck with 2 sets of wheels powered by a motor. If I were to go up stairs I'd use it.


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I bought a 36 gun Liberty several years ago to put in our basement (which does not have a walk out). I called around and found the moving company that moved them for Cabela's and Bass Pro. I thought great, they will have some cool devices to handle this thing. Nope. Just a refrigerator dolly and brute strength from three guys. They never touched a wall or a piece of woodwork. It was the best $250 I ever spent.

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I have a Cabela's made by Cannon that has been great. I paid to have it moved into my basement and paid to have it moved out of my basement when we relocated. The movers had a dolly that climbed stairs and it cost me $150.00 each time (I had a walkout basement with cement stairs).

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I'm a big fan of American Security (AMSEC). Great bang for the buck and real protection as opposed to many other brands out there.

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fwiw,
Had a thee pager in response. Lost it...

The basics:

1. Could your basement flood? No safe, regardless of security rating, defends against water...

2. Everything from a $2000 Liberty to a $15,000 Fort Knox Titan are classified by Underwriters Laboratory as a RSC. In short they are not classified as a safe but rather as a Residential Security Container. There IS a difference between a $2000 Liberty and whatever Fort Knox and those BS Safes you see in Costco... With names like Winchester... They ARE tin cans that you can break into them with a pry bar in several minutes...

Real safes start at TL-15. Tool resistant for 15 minutes. TL-30 same attack double the time. TRTL-30x6 is Torch and Tool resistant for 30 minutes on all six surfaces. EXTREME Jewelry Vaults can go to TRTL-60x6 to TXTL-60x6. The TXTL is Torch, Tool, and Explosive Resistant...

Consider keeping a very low profile for your safe. The fewer folks who know you have one the better off you are... On this note one of my brighter friends bought a mid grade Fort Knox YEARS ago. He never tore off the brown box. Instead he carefully cut a door in the cardboard and uses velcro to keep the original box around the safe. Looks, at first glance, like a spare hot water heater.

Consider solid fire protection. Many RSCs use nothing more than a couple layers of sheetrock to withstand fire. The more expensive Fort Knox safes do well with fire. They have an expanding door seal activated by heat that seals the safe in a fire. Though you will pay for it...

I use ISM Super Treasury Diamond Vaults that were bought used for roughly $2000 a piece. They typically bring 4 to 5 times that in similar condition. New they are $20Kish. These Israeli made safes are the gold standard of the jewelry business...

Total overkill. That has its own pitfalls. Don't feel like typing it out again. Short of going with an UBER Safe you won't have this problem...

http://www.empiresafe.com/143/ism_super_treasury_trtl30x6

Thoughts:

1. Weight is your friend on safes. Light safes are easily moved unless bolted down to cement.

Never buy an old safe that is weighted with cement. It holds tremendous moisture.. I've seen one gun collection ruined by a cheap "old" safe...

2. Never count on an electronic lock. They will fail on you atleast once in 20 years. They are handy, however, make sure you have a redundant mechanical backup...

3. You will get more for your money with a used vault, however, as with all things there are pitfalls. You either spend your money up front from a legitimate safe dealer or you do mucho homework on used vaults and have the locks serviced.

Had a friend who brought home a US Navy M16 Safe that were being thrown out. He put a large gun collection in one. All was well until he was going to shoot prairie dogs. Safe would not open. Local safe guy drilled plenty of air holes in the safe with no luck. Finally had to pay an expert $400 to punch the lock and open it... Used OLD safes have pitfalls.

4. If you can afford it go with a Sargent & Greenleaf 2937 mechanical combination lock. This is current government spec for intelligence safes, file cabinets, etc... Don't ask me what happened with the Chinese and the F-35 plans...(grin)

Regards, Matt.


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Never place a safe where it can fall a full floor level in a fire because the fire liner will shatter. If you put your safe in a garage bolt it to the floor or wall or both. A safe is one level of security. A safe with an alarm system that is monitored is far better as it limits the time for a break-in. Never spin the lock dial as it can cause the tumblers to move and then you have to keep trying different number combinations until you get it right! A friend that went to safe cracking school for the USPS told me that one! Most problems with USPS safes were caused by spinning the dial when locking them.


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Buy a tall safe you have more "long" guns than you think. A friend told me that and i didnt listen. I do now.
that little slot in the shelf for your tall guns fills up quick and doesnt give much selection in placement. Had mine about 10 years, after a lot of research bought American Security. You can get better or cheaper but it was the best for me locally available. Many friends have placed theirs against a wall, bolted down (but so you couldnt pry up) and built a nice cabinet around them. You cant buy security. You buy time and effort. Anything you buy I could break. Period. Its all about time.


Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
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Thanks for all the great info. This gives me a great starting point.

Seems like I've read something about needing/having a de-humidifier?

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gun safes are good


bout the best locally is the AMSEC safes from what I've been able to glean


I'm also a believer in not keeping all your eggs in one basket


have multiples in different locations


even have some stuff at a good pard's house just in case.

I don't like the idea of surviving something nasty and having no $$$ or firearms


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I like my Fort Knox, but I know it's not the only good one out there.
1. Buy big. Mine was too small when I bought it. (Bought it from my buddy's dad when they moved.)
2. Think about humidity if you put it in a basement. Not saying I wouldn't do it, just look into it.


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2legit makes a good point ive never considered. Two smaller safes, twice as hard and long to break.


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Buy from local locksmith. You will get better advise than from a gunshop


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The good thing about where you live, Fort Knox and Liberty are both made in Utah County. The safe I bought from Cabela's is their "Tall and Wide" version. I got it during one of their LEO/Military/Fire Fighter/EMS appreciation sales, which knocked 40% off the top, then I had a coupon for another $150.00 off, and they discounted it another 10% because it was a display model. They almost paid me to take it!... whistle

It's served it's purpose, but someone determined and with a bit of time could get into it, but I'm confident it'll bring the average tweeker to a screaming halt.

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exactly right. a safe factory rep told me of a contractor on vacation, when they broke in they found his concrete saw. Nothing stops that, if you have the time and will. What you are looking for is something to stop the guy who is in and out in a few minutes. Given time bank safes are cracked


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What about the browning safes? I know they are not made by browning (liberty maybe?). I was looking at the sporter series on the low end (available locally) but would go up if it was worth it.

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A dehumidifier was asked about. I have always used a Goldenrod accessory in all my gun-safes. A small lightbulb would work, too, but might be easily broken.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1138614184/goldenrod-gunsaver-dehumidifier-rod-110v?cm_vc=U112


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This website should help -

http://gunsafereviewsguy.com/buyers-guide/best-gun-safe/

Best wishes for you in your search - it is a very confusing process.


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I have four now. Browning, Fort Knox, Liberty and a Stack On. I lock up the wife's stuff, papers, computer back ups and knives, as well as my guns.
No safe will 'stop' a determined thief with time, but they can sure slow them down, and they will prevent kids from stealing stuff.


Sam......

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