Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles The complete transition to Portugal is done

battue I schlepped around a FW 270 in the snow and mud last week(one of those "late, undesirable,declining quality rifles" that collectors don't like

But some collector kept it pristine for 40 years, before I bought it a dozen years ago. Redneck stocked it for me in a McMillan and it is the new #1. I hope to make it look really schitty someday but have too many rifles for that to happen. It needs some real abuse.

And that complex. Everyone has different ideas of what is important to them, thus perceived "value" is different for everyone.

Wouldn't be an ironic twist to have them build the new XPR in South Carolina? A little insight here: http://www.rrarms.com/winchester-xpr-270-win-3-24.html

Bob, what Mickey "pattern" did you buy for the stock?

I know some folks go all aflutter over the original M70 trigger, but I have owned several rifles with the new MOA trigger and loved them all after I replaced the factory trigger spring with one from Ernie's Gunsmithing.
AND....
Ruger sells all the American Rifles they can build. That should tell us something?

I'm still trying to decipher what makes a Tikka crap??? If it had a lug attached to the action rather than the stock maybe it would be put to rest? No, the Sako TRG uses the same configuration and barrels and they don't have the crap label for some reason.

+1 if the quality of a T3 is not readily apparent to even a casual observer then don't know what to say.

Clean machining, smooth feeding, sako extractor, adjustable trigger, sako barrel, and tons of aftermarket accessories. All in a lightweight package that flat shoots.

I have owned Savages etc, and they are a crude in comparison.

I think the T3 is a nice rifle though not my preference, and I think they are a smidge over priced.

Love the way they point though, and the excellent trigger and bog-standard accuracy.

I think some of the dis-likers are so because the T3 is not made in the US? I might well be wrong in many cases of course, but as it's the theme of this thread maybe in some cases I'm right too?

Never hear much bitching about Belgium Brownings. But I like Guinness, Toyotas, my last sushi meal was made by a Latino, Shimano reels rule, and I like Tikkas. If a guy wants to drive a Chevy to McDonalds, its OK by me.

Sue me.

And they do go elsewhere frequently. Which is really only a problem for dumbschits like those here who love to whine and bellyache about the poor quality of the guns they buy, made by all the new/inexperienced workers at the gun company.

OldBrownDog - talk about a CLONE...soon you'll have to look real close to see if it's a T3, Axis or RAR...did I miss one? Homesteader

DD I have the Compact Edge on that rifle.....black.

Winchester has turned out some POS rifles over some of the years.

I'd rather buy US. But there is a point that I will go to, RE the cost. And at cost I demand accuracy.

I personally don't care about looks much.

But if the rifle isn't accurate, its not worth a penny to me really...

So there are the demands. Whoever can fill them gets the business of mine. Granted mine is not enough to worry about.

But these days its cheaper to buy a donor action, and have a good barrel put on by a competent smith, rather than pay bigger bucks for a better rifle from a "factory" .

I suspect the market demands and what it will bear have always driven this.

Bingo....better way to go.

Nah, Bob...

I understand where you're coming from, but it just isn't true.

I have an elderly friend who doted for decades on his old model 70s. One in .243 and the other in .270.

In the mid 90s I showed him my then new model 70 classic featherweight in .243 and he was immediately impressed. He was even more impressed when he shot it. Impressed enough that he ordered out and purchased his first centerfire rifle since the early 60s.
He just turned 83, and he still loves his older Winchesters, but the classic featherweight is his shooting pride and joy.

And that is just one side of the New Haven story. I'm not sure when the Winchester 9422 was first built, but I'll stand corrected if it was pre-64. This is a rifle that (arguably)stands alone at the head of it's class. I'd give up all of my CF rifles before I'd part with mine...

John yes, they made a few good guns after 1964.


But the guns that cemented the Winchester reputation,were pretty much all pre 64 Models. The M70, the 52,the 94, the 71,64, M12's and 21's.....all the icons were pre 64's.

The Classic was a decent working gun (I bought two immediately,a 300 Win Mag and a 338 Win Mag SG) when they came out). But they had to irretrievably screw up the M70 before they were dragged kicking and screaming to have David Miller design rifle for them that people would buy again. Even then it was "different" from the pre 64.....MIM extractors, two piece bolts, cast parts,and after awhile very indifferent assembly.

The Classic probably gave me more fits related to sloppy and indifferent assembly than any other class of M70's. So I was never much of a fan unless a really good smith did the required work to the metal to make it work like it should. I was never a real fan because they were a crap shoot and had issues I never saw with any pre 64 i owned,which has been quite a few. I have had good and bad Classics,but never had a "bad" pre 64.

These are the reasons I say NH was never the same after 1964,but you will get as many opinions on this as there are shooters who used the guns from both time frames.

It's 1964 again. I reckon before the 24hr Campfire, guys sat around a wood campfire and had the same conversation about Winchester, except they liked 270's back then. Which is interesting in that it appears Winchester is changing once again for the same reason. And even more interesting, what does that say for the business of building firearms and the folks that buy them? Have consumers always expected more for less? Probably some pretty easy math could tell what a '64 M70 wouldl cost in 2014 dollars.

Have all the good guns already been built? Businesswise, it's an interesting study.

Maybe the answer all along is to just build whatcha want. The expectation of custom built quality and factory built price doesn't seem to pan out. I don't think the target market is here on this thread and further, most here would be considered a niche market. How many are willing to wait a year and spent 2 to 3 times the amount if a factory offering? Not many. But like I said earlier, a lot of fellas want a MOA rifle cause thats as far as their knowledge of rifles goes.

Well into the new millennium, I had several friends who purchased and used model 70 classics with very few issues. If it was a crap shoot, it was no more of an issue than the pre 64 crappy stock work.
I only wish that I had bought a 22-250 FW classic in that time frame. If I find the right rifle, it may yet happen...

Bob,

Damn it quit making sense, it just confuses the issues.

Some need to realize the run of the mill Pre 64 Model 70 isn't an original '67 427 Shelby Cobra, nor will they ever appreciate in value like the Cobra to allow them to live a little larger on the profits. Hit a home run and find a rare one at the right price, ya you can turn a nice profit and pay the light bill for a few years. The rest are better than good working rifles and not much more. For the most part, the people who think the pre 64 70's are the holy grail are dying out and the new generation doesn't look at them in the same way. Right or wrong, that is the fact.

Most here have a couple and don't fall into the classification of collectors.


The have their mystic and rightfully so, but the Mona Lisa they are not.