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JJHACK Offline OP
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I was fooling around with my archery gear and the chronograph when a friend wanted to see how fast his bow was.

While doing this, He shot his broad heads at my old block target that I use only for broad heads now. It's kinda beat up but still works okay for broad heads. His arrows were fine at 15 yards, but at 30 were all over the place. At 40 a 15" group was a good one! He shot some slick tricks as a base line and they were more like a 5"-7" groups. Maybe equipment, or his skills?

While doing this I shot several mechanicals and saw something amusing. With my bow which at this moment is set up to shoot 75FPE these mechanicals which were NAP kill zone, Rage, and grim Reapers all worked with amazing performance and drove the arrows more then half the length into the target at 18-20 yards. They stick out the back and show full deployment. Every time I do this I feel like this is the best way to shoot game. These things are astonishing!

Then I go to 30 yards none stick out the back of the target? A ten yard difference and 12" less penetration? At 40 yards they are only 6-7" deep at the most! By comparison at 40 yards the Slick trick Viper's penetrate more at 40 then the Grim Reaper did at 20!

After this exercise I come back down to earth and remember why I don't use Mechanicals on big game. Only on turkeys. After doing this we got to discussing the situation. I think that if a guy is shooting over 70FPE and holding shots to 25 yards or less with a decent mechanical shooting deer size game everything is good. Maybe the failures folks have and complain about, or become critical of, are shooting at 40 yards and expecting the same results. Or possibly they are shooting 60FPE and at 30 plus yards?

I don't see Mechanicals working at longer distances with the lower velocity and greater resistance to penetration. Especially when the bow has a lower draw weight, shorter draw length, or 60FPE to drive the arrows. I thought about how many guys use the ulmer edge and the Schwacker. Both are 1.5" expanded and two blades. I can believe that they would provide great long range penetration and perform as advertised.

The question then is, My little 4 blade 1-1/16" cut (one side) with the other being 7/8" as I recall is a greater amount of cutting area then the 1.5" mechanicals. I'm just not seeing any real advantage to a mechanical that only cuts 1.5" with two blades. The Short stubby blades on so may 4 blade heads today that shoot with flawless perfection have every advantage over a 1.5" 2 blade mechanical.

I've heard that the Ulmer and schwacker are the preference for very fast bows and guys shooting 50 plus yards. I cannot argue this point and I have no experience to even question the folks claiming this. I just don't shoot 50 plus yards at game and don't really know any folks personally that do this. I've had clients tell me they are good to 75 yards, but then lose game or make poor shots and need hours of tracking and follow up. I just don't care to see this kind of shooting. One friend of mine was (is) an astonishing archer. Pop cans with judo points in my pasture are no problem for him beyond 50 yards. Yet he shot a deer while I was ranging distance for him a few years ago, it was a looong shot. The arrow was way too far back left a few hundred yards of blood and was never recovered. Hunting in the real world is not pop cans in the pasture, or targets!

From my angle on this, it's not the mechanical heads that are the fault. It's the power available and the distance of the shot that plays a major role in the result. I believe that a big chunk of the failures are too little power. Whether it's from draw weight, length, or arrow weight. When you have the power to deliver a mechanical properly they are astonishing.


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Seems to me then the issue isn't so much the mech head but the shooter, his equipment choices, and shot placement. If you want to drive mech heads through stuff, especially at distance, you gotta put on your big boy pants and pull some weight. Even with today's super fast bows 70#DW is minimum. You got to have heavy arrows too. Research the bows you buy. Just because a bow is fast at IBO specs doesn't insure it will be efficient when arrow weight goes up. The RPM 360 from Bowtech is a prime example. Smoking fast with light arrows. But kick that arrow weight up and speed falls faster than the number of high ranking recruits at the University of Michigan. Also bet that poor shot placement to an extent falls back on tune of the bow as well. Has BH flight been checked at long distance? How competent is the shooter at those distances with his broadheads? JJ, I know your thoughts on mech heads. Heck, i shoot ST. But done properly, a mech head ain't all that bad.


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JJHACK Offline OP
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Exactly what I believe as well.

A mechanical on the end of a spear with good speed is amazing

Connected to the end if a dart,.... Well not so much


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mechanical. one more thing to fail.


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You must walk everywhere you go so you don't have to worry about your car breaking down. Just saying...


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Could this be the reason they are banned in some areas (like here in Idaho)?


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Could be. I have plenty of fpe to blow a mech thru anything I care to shoot, but I like my Slick Tricks. They are just flat nasty on deer. I did bend one this yr tho. Complete pass thru at 30yds. All 4 blades bent and a slight bend in ferrule. So....I ordered another pack of my 100grn mags. I could run mech heads but I'm happy with my tricks


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Really interesting observations on mechanicals penetrating a block target. It seems clear from these results that the penetration of mechanicals decreases as distance increases.

It'd be interesting to know how much penetration fixed blades lose as distance increases. I would guess there is some, but not as much as mechanicals.

On a practical level, I have to wonder how much penetration loss with mechanicals (at say 30 yards) you can withstand and still kill a deer with proper shot placement. I get that bigger/tougher game would change the equation, but deer are a bit easier to kill than some other game and to me, it always comes down to how much is enough and how much is over-engineering?

...these are largely rhetorical questions, not suggesting anyone else should undertake the tests...just some thoughts I had.

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Setch, it comes down to how heavy an arrow you are shooting and how fast you can push that heavy arrow...where mech heads are concerned. The heads that open with the blades merely sliding back don't shed near the energy that a cam over blade will. With animals vs a foam block the muscle and tissue tend to pull away when it's cut. A properly tuned bow driving a 450-500 grain arrow at 290fps+ will get the job done at distance with a mech head providing you can bypass heavy bone. By distance I mean 30-50 yds. Todays bows have no trouble putting up those kind of numbers but you won't see it running low draw weights. 70-80# DW is required. If you want to shoot low draw weight and lightish arrows a fixed blade head and close shots are the only way to go


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Originally Posted by 280Ackleyrized
The heads that open with the blades merely sliding back don't shed near the energy that a cam over blade will.


Great follow-up. I was wondering what a 'cam over blade' was...thank you to google!

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Well, now I understand something I've seen happen a few times on TV archery shows where a deer was hit well and the arrow achieved minimal penetration to the point it appeared recovery could be a problem. This explains it, though years ago when I used the small three blade 100 gr Rocket heads they came out the other side of elk and flew completely through chest cavities of bucks.


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Originally Posted by 280Ackleyrized
You must walk everywhere you go so you don't have to worry about your car breaking down. Just saying...


Not quite, but getting somewhere is different than risking a wound on an animal, when there is a proven way not to have to accept that risk.

I often wonder how folks killed stuff with bows for years before 300 fps and carbon and mechanicals came along..

I've seen too many mechanical failures. THere are enough ifs involved with a bow as it is. Much less risk the broadhead...


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I used NAP spitfires for several years because 10-20yrs ago fixed blade heads were not as good for accuracy as the newer ones in my experience - no failures. I shot deer from about 10yds out to 37yds (longest shot on a whitetail - bigger east Texas deer, not the smaller hill country deer). I have always shot 70-75lbs and carbon arrows (not ultralight, but lighter than aluminum). On that 37yd shot the arrow was not only a complete pass thru, but stuck in the ground at least 10yds beyond that deer. Keep 'em sharp, keep 'em working properly, and keep the arrows flying straight and should not be any issues with penetration.

Some of you guys are like the guy that swore to me that you NEEDED a 30-06 for Texas deer when a decent bullet in a 223 will do.


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Hmm, shot fixed blade zwickeys and snuffers for years. Never had any accuracy problems with them at all.

Nothing mechanical on them to fail either...

And the zwickeys were bad azz on penetration, better than any other head I"ve seen.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....

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