Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Light done Wrong.....Kimber Montana ;)

I can hear is now��gun is too light, barrel is too short, scope is to big and heavy, stock pattern is too busy��but I still like it.

A couple months back I bought a Kimber Montana 84L in 270 from a member here. This is what it weighed when I opened the box just long enough to weigh it before boxing it back up to send to JES reboring to turn this from a 270 to a 338-06.


In addition from taking out a bunch of metal punching out the .277� bore to a .338� bore I also had him chop the barrel back from 24� to 21� to make it more handy and less to get hung up when going through the alders with it on my pack. This is what it weighed when it came back from JES bored and shortened:


While the barrreled action was away I had the stock dipped by Alaska Hydrographics to give it a little bit of a custom look�.I like the dark camo look rather than lighter options and that�s really all that matters
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Next was to install an aluminum trigger guard I bought from Kevin Weaver in Colorado. I sent him my steel trigger guard back in 2012 so he had a template to make me one out of aluminum back then so just had him send me two more, one for this project and one for my wife�s Kimber Montana 308 of her own. Also installed a titanium bolt handle made by �Chris84� on here, its called his �Ascent� model. Here is what it weighs in at before I start putting rings/scope on it:


4.9 pounds bare rifle seems pretty good for a long action 338-06 and lighter than what I thought it would be. Anyways just over 5 pounds even with talleys on it:


Now with a VX-6 2-12X42. 17 oz scope but since I already have a UL 308 Montana that goes 5.5 pounds scoped with a 3-9X33 ultralight on it I figured I�d go for more FOV and higher power range of the VX-6 on this one and also to see what all the hub bub about the VX-6 was about�.anyways 6.1 pounds scoped is pretty good for this little powerhouse. If I don�t like the VX-6 I�ll end up going 2-7X33 on this setup but for now I�ll stick with the VX-6.


Clearance with the talley lows on the 42mm is more than enough
[img]http://i184.photobucket.com/al...-893E-E425A96ADF35_zpszcypnndm.jpg[/img]

Here are a few more random pics of the gun��I get to shoot it tomorrow. Just put it all together today as all the parts and pieces came back while I was out of town. Keep ya posted.

[img]http://i184.photobucket.com/al...-B582-BEC302186A7D_zpsqbc233vc.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i184.photobucket.com/al...-919F-0C7FB77FD417_zpscmpqyebb.jpg[/img]
[[img]http://i184.photobucket.com/al...-ab1c-2d761138ab6f_zpse0b8376e.jpg[/img]

I like it! I don't want to shoot it, but I like it! Curious how the VX6 will hold up to the recoil generated by that fly weight.

David

I like it!

How are the bolt handles held on?

Mike

First of all, sweet rifle!

Can Kevin take a piece of factory plastic bottom 'metal' and turn it into aluminum or stainless?

Go 2-7x33.....

They are threaded on. Just unscrew one and screw on the other.

Awesome gun. Only thing I'd change is the glass, barrel length, caliber, and stock color.



Actually, I think it's pretty dang well thought out. Now go shoot it and show us how she shoots.

Thanks!

Mike

Be interested to see how that dip takes the abuse. What weight, if any measurable, do you think it added?

How do you shoot that with that much eye relief and the scope set that far back??

I bet she is alittle snorty at that weight but damn fine to carry around. Id hunt with it for sure. What bullet are you planning to run in it?

Nice work!

One thing nice about a super light rifle is that you can afford a little extra weight on the glass if you like.

The thought was the extra 7 oz over a 2-7X33 VX-2 is that it could help with taming the lightweight beast a bit with some glass. We will see. Still may sell the VX-6 if I don't like it and go lightweight all the way around....time will tell.

Shouldn't be too much worse than my 325 WSM that uses 10% more powder shooting 200 and 220 grainers which weighed in sub 6 pounds with a 2-7X28 and 6.25 pounds with the vortex that is on it now.

I have 200 Hot Cors to get it sighted in. Then have 210 sciroccos, 210 Paritions, and 225 accubonds all loaded up to see which it likes best. Can't really go wrong with any of those so long as one shoots less than 1.5" its plenty good for me and the distances I shoot game at.

Good luck with her should be a fun gun to hunt with. Mine loves 225 grain accubonds on top of H4350

Can't find any 4350 or I would be giving that a whirl, so using RL-17 in all these load work ups. 2700 with 210s and 2600 with 225s and I would be stoked out of a 20" barrel.

Nice rifle but I could never cut a 338-06 that short...21 1/2 maybe but not no 20 inches. It just takes away from a beautiful rifle. Still a good lookin rifle though. powdr

I'd worry about barrel thickness before length....

I'd like to see a pic of the crown/muzzle just to see how much meat is there.

Im getting just over 2600 fps with 225 grain out of a 24" tube with H4350. You might get there with Rl17 but even if you only hit 2500fps that's still a hell of a hammer.

Curious as to why you didn't go 35 Whelan?

When Nosler data says a Whelan will push 225gr bullets to 2800fps while the .338-06 will only do 2600fps, I've always thought I'd go the Whelan route if I wanted to build a medium bore on the '06 case.

I want a report. Love the work you did. My kind of rifle.

Nice but I would have been plenty satisfied with the original .270.

WW brass, IMR 4320, not 50.
225 2670 23" Hart
215 2790
200 2910

Expect 50-60 less at 20"

Trajectory, retained energy, penetration is why I went OKH vs Colonel

Honestly the Whelen is an awesome round but the end of a standard montana barrel is only .560". Boring out to .338 only leaves .111" on each side of the bore for metal. A .358 hole would have left roughly .1" which it's getting super light. That and I like the more bullet options of the 338 family. Yes I know if I really like bullet options I should have got a 30-06 but everyone has one of those in Kimber Montana. Figure someone has to be first to try a 338-06 on this platform

Or 3x9 ultralight Leupold

I would have left 2 more inches on the barrel.

Nice looking rig.

I bet it will get your attention when it goes off too.

^^^^^ That's what I'm thinking, too.

+1!
My .338-06 weighs 7.4 lbs and it's all the fun I can stand with 225's going 2700.

Some original thinking there, well done!


X-VERMINATOR

I really like the stock color. I have a TI coming that I may have to do that to. Thanks for the cool pics and thread.

Reno

Sweet!!

Waiting impatiently for the range report.

Awesome gun!

Dang man that's a great looking build; I like the camo, weight, and cartridge!

I'd stick w/ 22" and skip the high-mag scope but the concept is fantastic.

What is the cost of having JES rebore?

Very cool man.

Great looking rifle! For what I do, I would have stayed at 22" or 23". But for what you describe, it should be perfect. If you do end up considering a lighter scope, look hard at the VX2s. The 3-9x42 will not be much, if any, sacrifice in glass, and it only weighs ~11oz.

Now go shoot that thing and report back. I'll bet there's no doubt when you pull the trigger!

I really like it. Looking forward to the range report.

That has to be butt heavy.

bellydeep,

Aside from the thinness of the barrel when rebored to .35, Nosler's data only gives 225's 2600 fps in the .338-06 because they only tried 4 powders, while their .35 Whelen 225-grain data includes 10 powders. Both Barnes and Hornady show 2700 for the .338-06 with 225's.

The Whelen's capable of about 3% more velocity when both rounds are loaded to the same pressure. Using the 225 AccuBond as an example in both rounds, loaded to 2700 in the .338-06 and 2800 in the .35 Whelen, the .33 caliber catches up in velocity at about 200 yards, and the gap widens beyond there. Oh, and the .338-06 kicks a little less, because the bullet isn't started as fast.

Elmer Keith noticed this longer-range advantage for .33 caliber bullets about 75 years ago, the reason he developed the .333 OKH and "quit" the .35 Whelen. This doesn't mean the .35 Whelen's a bad cartridge, just that muzzle velocity doesn't tell the entire story, especially when it's only from one source of loading data.

I too am interested in how that scope will hold up; guessing it won't. Doesn't make much sense to me putting a heavier scope on a flyweight rifle to help tame recoil(working against the laws of physics). Keep us posted on how she does. When the scope tanks I agree with your choice of Leupold VX2 2-7x33(2.5-8x36 VX3 would probably be even a better choice considering the recoil potential of that rifle).

Good luck,

Leftybolt

I made a couple minor changes to the otherwise great thought. (Your idea would probably be applicable to an equivalent rifle in a lighter caliber however.)

Bullets matter farrrrrrrr more than headstamps. Hint.

The .35 can't begin to hang,on ANY level...in a like sized case. The .338" 250 Scenar has a .675BC,full stop,end of story,35's are dog schit.

Now the bane of L/A Montuckies are their rather trite mag confines,which can,will and do affect boolit selection...which can,will and do upset the cart. That fact is rather unfortunate and as diameter goes up,boolits get longer(when talking meaningful BC's) and the door slams shut even tighter.

Beings Joe Average(s) ain't very fhuqking bright(understatement),their lead in "thought",is going to be that "BC doesn't matter",which is hilarious. Nope...funnier than that. Ping Pong Ball Launchers can't hang. Re-hint.

The overlooked .338" 250 Skinner is a phenom and at a paltry 2500fps launch,from a 200yd zero in a 5000' atmosphere of 70% humidity at 29.92,it'll reach the 1000yd line retaining an amazing 1555fps(less than 1000fps loss in transit) and drift but 57" in a full value 10mph wind. 'Course that threshold will fly over pointy heads,but a boolit's starting mannerisms,ain't nearly as important as it's finishing mannerisms and a .675BC(JBM Silver Skinner inputs) greedily clings on to it's speed and slips atmospherics wickedly. Mouths will be agape and noone will be able to correlate the Magnificence Ratio at any/all distances,from powder burns to the transonic slips,which only adds to the humor. The upside being of course,that there is NO downside. Tough to beat them "odds". It's comforting to know,that a 1" 6x42 has the moxy to literally hang,as well as the erector travel requisite to do as one pleases,beings the transition from zero to 1K,is sub 31MOA. 'Course that too,will sail well above heads.

As per always,it's impossible to get giddy about lazy twists,misaligned COAL constraints or botched throats...if only because them are the dots that shine brightest when connected and the ONLY way to arrange the warm/fuzzy.

A .473" L/A Montucky's best use for dot connection,is in 6-06/6-06AI,because slickery BC's come at a lesser length.

Not that numerous dropped balls and disconnected dots,don't swoon Sheep and Ping Pong Ball Launchers,due the multiple insulating layers of their ignorance.

But hey...it IS funny.(grin)

Pass the OEM Montucky 7-08 and 162's at 2700fps.

Hint.................



(Addendum: as my crummy is warming up and coffee brewing)

The 210PT is a common theme,which is constantly hilarious. Assuming a 2700fps launch with it,in the above cited atmosphere and like zero,it has a 40fps advantage in impact velocity at 200yds over the Skinner.

At 400yds the 250 has a better than 100fps impact velocity advantage(arriving faster at 500yds,than the 210 do at 400yds) and drifts 50% less. 'Course then it gets REAL ugly.

Boolits fhuqk with heads and it amazes me,how many are in such great hurries to drop soooooooo many balls and build themselves into numerous corners.

Though I do enjoy the humor!(grin)

No feat to flop MPAJ,dope a scope and arrange POA/POI intersections of meaningful BC's,as one pleases.

BUT...you gotta do it,in order to do it.

Hint.................



(RE-'dendum: The first (2) creeks are looooowwwwww)

'Lanche,

FACTS is VERY fhuqking funny. Perhaps wax eloquent on COAL latitude,boolit selection,throat geometry,twist rate and conjoin the belly laughs with some pics of the meldings...if only to reiterate obliviously,that which reliably escapes your faculties.

Never been tough to cypher,who shoots more than a smidge and to the confounding chagrin of Window Lickers fhuqking everywhere...Pretend ain't Real,no matter how feverishly they Imagine it to be.

You're doing "great" and really gave that POS some serious "thought"!

Laughing!...................

What JB said, and per Bigstick on OAL, if an issue there is always the Proven 210 PT and 210 TSX, HOWEVER, I ran 225 PT vs 210 for more energy, BC/SD, and only giving up 2" drop at 400 w/a 200 zero.

Ran a 1.5-6x 4200 in Colorado and it was a heavish scope, as my 8lb rifle sans scope was not so generous for any extra. Later had a 2.5-8 for a Texas hunt where I pole axed a nice 8 point, and then a 6x42 for local hunting, the latter I did most of the load testing, everything was 1/2" from 200 BTs, to 225s, though speaking of OD, mine was a bit thick, as I told Hart .050 over either sporter or Mag contour, a mistake. Mag contour would have been about right, and 22 if did again.

My former 22" SS Ruger 350 had a BOOM, I figure a similar capacity/expansion ratio OKH should be similar but a little closer to the ears.

A guy on another forum chopped his 338 WM from 24 to either 20 or 21, as I recall, and it lost little speed. I chopped one I had to 22.5, and as a mag contour it did well. My 23 was more than needed on my OKH.

It will handle well, if balanced. A 4x33, 6x, or small variable like the 2-7, 2.5-8x is what I would be looking at running. Never been happy mismatching a bulky heavy scope atop a rifle not welcoming it.

Never much to disagree on Big Sticks Calculations, but I question if one can make a shot with a flyweight OKH at 1K, so not sure how it applies, nor if the OP has plans for LR.

The biggest shock to me is not the 20" or OAL etc., it is the re-boring to 338 in a contour that light. So long as safe, no problem. It should heat fast. Cold bore first shot is key, so if stable, should be fine in the field. My 700 was chambered for 250s just b/c, and having such a deep throat, the OAL was very long and mag compatible, and still shot bugholes with 200 and 225s, so no regrets on how it turned out.

My biggest complaint was choosing TOO heavy a contour in my younger years, and then having the bolt handle fall off on the first shot after that Colorado Elk trip. Had I taken an Elk, it would have been with ONE shot, and the rifle would still be wrapped around an Aspen on some Mountain side!

Their is no rationale for what some Looney's do, folks like Bobin happily run an OEM, and successfully as expected. Then others want something different, less recoil, flatter trajectory, more KE, etc.

Those who like to tinker are never satisfied with status quo, as there MUST be a better way

No doubt, a 708, 270, or 280 would be MY limit on recoil in a Montucky, and it's a good thing for my wallet they are not chambered in say a 6.5 Creedmoor or 47 Lapua, 6XC, or 6.5x55. Looney's must be tempted with something different

HAHA...thanks I'll keep all that in mind. Thanks for the morning humor....good stuff.

Balance point is 3/4" behind the front action screw. We'll see how it goes.

It's a shame your moderator buds on AOD banned big stick yrs ago. I learned good things from him on reloading and AOD could benefited from him but guys over their rather taker loading advice from smittyofnorth

Stick,

No doubt .338 bullets are better for LR shooting. However, I haven't seen anything in this thread to indicate that is what the rifle was built for.

Very nice rifle. Excellent execution...excluding the scope. If that were mine, it would wear a S&B Zenith 1.1-4x24.

What twist rate did you go with?

338-06 is perfection. It doesn't kick hard, the bullets have high BC, it is pretty efficient in short barrels, and it consistently puts animals down within a few steps.

Which is one of the reasons I am on here a lot more than over there the past few years.

Did you have to do anything special to get the bolt handle off? I've tried removing mine with leather wrapped around it and a large pipe wrench, as well as a vice. It's on there pretty good. I need to try soaking it, and/or the heat gun.

lanche,

If you are going to keep your shooting under 400yds or so don't over look the 200 gr Hornady. I found it to fly flatter than what it should have, and it always held together and did its job really well on the 2 species of deer we have here as well as putting elk in the dirt before they new what was going on. Yeah, some will say the BC sucks on the little Hornady but for normal hunting ranges I was very impressed. I ran it out of a 22" 338-06AI at 2850.
Nice looking handy rifle there by the way.

Hope you have good dental insurance. At that weight a 338-06 will knock filling loose

I bought a LH blue Wood Stock and a RH SS Syn stock. Ruger 20" 338 RCM around 6.5 #. Ballistically the same a yours Luke. Very accurate both of them ande can see 2680 FPS with 225 Gr bullets.
Not as light as yours but well balanced. Very accurate both were
under 1" with first loads with no tinkering.

That is a sweet rifle. Nice build, in a great cartridge.

Do you mind sharing how much it cost you, all said and done?

I'm on Obamacare baby!!!!!

Seriously just sighted and shot some prilimanary work up loads. 50 rounds down and away. Just shot off sandbags. Honestly it isn't any worse than my Browning TI in 325 WSM.

Both the 210 Sciroccos and the 225 Accubonds shot better as I moved up in powder. 62 grains yielded nearly a clover leaf with the 210 Siroccos and 60 grains was just under an inch with the 225 Accubonds....neither load showed signs of pressure so there is some wiggle room to work it up.

My shoulder feels like I went shooting today certainly, but its not as bad as some people make it out to be or think it might be.

Oh yeah the VX-6 2-12 is still holding strong too, but we'll see how long it lasts.

Looks great, Luke! Bet we see pics with lots of dead critters with that rifle.

BTW, did you bed it?

What is the cost of having JES rebore?

Interesting build, Luke. Keep us posted on your progress.

I had JES do both the rebore and cut it from 24" to 21" and recrown...everything ran me $275.

What a cool rifle! That will be a perfect moose/ bear gun. You've got my brain working now!!

Any chrono readings? If you get those 210s to shoot well that would be a great load.

Not yet. Once I find a load I like best I will chrono it just to see. But for now just looking to see what groups best. Already found some inside an inch so thats great, no just getting greedy and seeing if I can beat that.

I had great results w/ Ramshot Hunter & 225s.

Love that cartridge!

Whatever shoots best will be fast enough at 62 and 60 grains of RL17!

You have a chrono, but choose NOT to use it during load development?

I was wondering the same with 3.8" eye relief. Maybe its just me, but I'd flip the Talleys around and move the scope forward.

That should help get a scope cap on there too.

Some stand on their hind feet to shoot which = scope farther back..
Belly shooters can't seem to grasp that concept..

Luke, thanks for sharing the details of your project, I'll look forward to your new rig in next season's pictures of dead stuff..

Nrut,

Most fellas I know set their rifle up for shooting prone, seated, and standing. And factor in heavy clothing and pack. Its no problem to find the happy medium.

Jason

Pretty sweet set-up!

Love the .338-06 cartridge. Old boss had a 1903-A3 set up in .338-06. Don't have one only because I have a .338WM with a fluted 22" tube in Ruger's Zytel stock. Not as lightweight as yours but lighter than most .338s. With 225g AccuBonds I get 2742fps and great accuracy using 69.0g H100V.

Happy hunting!

Cool stuff, Luke!

Love the look of the gun, hope it works out well.

I'm betting it works out fine.

You have a chrono, but choose NOT to use it during load development?


I have one also and our weather and short days in winter make it tough to use at times.

Nice rifle, looks like you had some planing into that one.

I have a 338-06, it's a great round. It will kill stuff just as dead as my 30-06. lol

I hope it shoots great for ya.

kk,

Lack of ambient light is something I don't have to deal with, but we get a little bit of that rain here on the OR coast too. A bunch of my load development has been done during the rainy season. I work out in the hills, out of the back of my rig. I use a pop-up blind or makeshift shelter for the chrono. At times I've been able to sneak in a few shots in light rain, then bring the chrono under cover while cooling the barrel. A bud made a plexi-glass raincover for his chrono.

Just recently tried RS Hunter and 162 in the rain with my 84 in 7-08. A handful of rounds loaded in increments up to max book fired over the chrono told me the powder was too slow. Literally took minutes. No sense shooting groups and time for something that is slower than what I'm looking for. Likewise, if I'm faster than I expect I want to know about it rather than guess.

Jason

I don't think those bullets will bounce off anything. Nice rifle.

Yeah, very nice. How'd it shoot? The stock finish seem pretty durable?

It shot great with the highest powder charges behind the 210 Scirocco and 225 accubonds. As for how durable the stock finish is, I guess time will tell.

Yeah it's a magnetospeed or however you spell the name of that chrono graph. Overall I like it better than my shooting chrony brand but with the chrono mounted on the pencil bore montanas it does change the poi some so now I just measure the speed if I get a load I like and if I am curious what speed it is doing. My heavy barrel rifles don't appear to be susseptable to poi changes with it mounted though.

Luke, I love the 338-06. One of the sexiest rounds ever. IIRC, mine went 2,750 with 210 NP's over H4350. Some scoff at 210's in the 33's, but the truth is, like the 130/270 Win, they kill far beyond their "numbers" as those that have actually used them will testify.

Aside, I suppose I don't see the reason to do a Hubble on top trying to add weight, while lightening the bolt and trigger guard.

Me, I'd have run the whole thing OEM with a svelt scope, but I'm turning into a bit of a recoil wimp as I get older

The 84L MT in 270 with 150's and 7-08/308 with 160/165's are my Montana fun limit.

Hope you knock over some big stuff with that setup my friend.

And to paraphrase Raising Arizona, "You're young, you've got your health, what do you want with a light kicking rifle?"

Haha I hear ya on the weight thinng for sure Brad. I will say doing load work ups at 12x was nice for certain compared to the 7x I am used to on a lot of rifles. I may swap things up to a 2-7x33 yet especially once it got my load dialed in. Save the extra 7 oz and make it under 5 pounds 11 oz scoped which will make it even more of a joy to carry and only 3 oz more than my UL 308 Kimber. Which makes me wonder how often the 308 will get the nod when they are sitting next to each other in the safe.

Well, at the end of the day, the 308 is one hell of a cartridge, and I'll bet you'd never see any real difference between the two on game. Ditto the 7-08.

I used my 7-08 MT this year to knock over a nice 6pt bull elk with a 150 Ballistic Tip, and I really didn't see much difference than anything else I've used on similar sized bulls from the past, up to the 338 WM.

Cartridges are more alike than different

Brad,

Not to hijack but I'd love to see a pic of that 6x6 if you have one.

Jason

Jason, don't want to clog-up Luke's terrific post, so PM en-route.

I understand. Back to Luke's rifle...

Jason

I hear ya Brad growing up all I had was a 308 with crappy corelokts and used it to take 10 or so moose and a dozen caribou with it myself let alone the rest of the family that used it as well. Heck even have taken a couple grizz with it was well. That said I do think the 338-06 is a healthy step up from the 308 as I am increasing case capacity and bore diameter.

I gotta believe going from a 165 grain bullet at 2700 fps out of my 20" barrel 308 to a wider and nearly 30% heavier bullet going the same speed makes it a bit better tool for grizz/brown bear. Can't go wrong with either though. I do like that I am not giving up mag capacity as well. Still 4+1 unlike my 325 wsm which I don't see it getting used much anymore with these two to choose from.

You only have yourself to please.

And as a young man, with lot's of energy in game-rich country, you have plenty of time to test your theory.

However, my bet is when you're my age you'll be right back where you started... just sayin

I don't doubt hay for a second Brad! Though I will say game densities and access to game is likely much better in the lower 48 than alaska from what I have seen.

Looks good to me... I would rethink the glass situation but to each his own..

Geo

Luke,
I like what you have done to the rifle.
The 338-06 is a favorite of mine.

Neat rifle!

Personally I would have gone with SAS�s Lilja contour, which would put some more weight and stiffness out front, even with the shorter barrel.

A few observations on the 338-06:
I�ve had better accuracy necking down 35 Whelen brass, or using 338-06 factory brass, rather than necking up 30-06.

When using 30-06 brass, Winchester brass gave a smidge more capacity than Remington, which helped when using H4350 or RE17.

In a 22.5� barrel on a Ruger action, I see 2900 fps with 185s, 2800 with 200s, 2750 with 210s, 2650 with 225s, and 2500 with 250s.

I�ve settled on 225 Accubonds at 2650 over H4350 as a do-all. Top end load in my rifle, but brass life is quite good. This bullet exhibits a nice combination of traits. Wouldn�t be surprised if you could get 2600 in your barrel, but that�s probably about it. You may or may not see any more velocity out of RE17 with accuracy- personally I haven�t found it to be a magic elixir.

Very nice rifle! Looks like a really nice set up for hunting.

JES did my 35 Newton as well and did great work..

So, when are you going to shoot it?

Already have 50 rounds down it when I sighted it in and did some early load work ups. Recoil is stout sure, but very manageable.

Beautiful rifle, interesting work! I like it when guys go their own way to try new things. It shows self-knowledge and independent thinking. I'm sure the recoil is well outside my comfort zone, at least for load development, but it looks to be an exceptionally handy rig for a serious hunter after big animals in unforgiving country. I particularly like the accuracy results that you've gotten so far. Slick rig!

Like others, I like the cartridge, and it has a lot going for it, whether you prefer heavies at long range or mediums at moderate range. Were I to do it, and I may one day very soon, I'd go heavier all the way around!

A message for Big Stick: 29.92" at 5000ft? Which planet is that?