|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,862
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,862 |
I finished my first AR build this week, and hit the range with it today. The rifle ran 30 rounds without a hitch, cycles and functions flawlessly.....but it shoots 10-12" low at 100yds. Even with the elevation knob cranked all the way up, it still shoots a foot low. To add insult to injury, groups are 5-6 inches.
Parts include: Spike's Tactical upper and lower, 16" Red X carbine barrel (stainless, fluted, 1-9 twist), Troy low-profile gas block w/ Spike's gas tube, Hogue mid-length free-float tube. I tried two different scopes, both VX-III 3.5-10's, with the same results. Mount is a LaRue LT104, and it was tight.
I put the rifle together, so what did I screw up? Bad barrel, maybe?
Thoroughly enjoying Alaska since 2001.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474 |
Pretty hard to put it together wrong if you followed instructions.
The hitting low issue, can be resolved with offset burris ring inserts.
But I'd bet the barrel is a bit non concentric and causing the issue.
5-6 inch groups could come from cheap ball ammo, thats not unheard of.
But the low impact is either the mount, and would be hard to believe with a La Rue supposedly. Or the barrel.
Jeff
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,300
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,300 |
how cold is it where you are shooting, how old was the ammunition, who made the ammunition, and did you try any other ammunition to see if it was similar.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474 |
Interestingly we've shot down to about 10 degrees in matches, I've never seen an impact issue to speak of other than the expected due to MV loss.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,335
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,335 |
Swap the Larue end for end,
I've been so overwhelmed with fake news that I'm now nuts. Let's go Brandon
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 4,597
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 4,597 |
Were all of the upper parts new, or a mix of new and used?
What was your torque on the barrel nut on the Hogue tube? Did you back it on and off, or just torque it down once?
What do you have on the muzzle?
Last edited by AH64guy; 12/08/14.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,300
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,300 |
we have no idea "what" ammo he is shooting or how cold it is. It would at least be nice to know if two different ammunition would hit in about the same place.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,862
Campfire Regular
|
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,862 |
Here is a picture of the rifle: ![[Linked Image]](http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q120/dvretz/73E2B914-ECAA-4DB3-9C1B-DAFA85F726CD-669-0000009E101BABF6_zps965e0ea7.jpg) More info to answer some of your questions: - The rifle was built 100% from brand new parts, mostly from Brownells (barrel, handguard, gas tube, gas block, lower parts kit, stock kit). I got the upper and lower receivers from a gun shop. The charging handle and bolt carrier group came from a different shop. If it turns out to be a barrel issue, I'm hoping Brownells will accept a return. - I just used a standard A2 flash hider, nothing fancy. It aligned properly without needing a crush washer, so I skipped the crush washer. - The scope mount is a LaRue that I'd bought 5-6 years ago, directly from LaRue. It's been on 2 or 3 different AR's without issue, so I don't think it's a mount issue. Using two different scopes on the same day, with identical results, leads me to believe it's not an optics issue, either. - I put the Hogue barrel nut on the way Hogue describes in their directions....finger tight lined up between two holes, so I tightened with their plastic tool to line up with the next available hole. I tightened it in one motion, no back and forth, and the gas tube slides in without issue. Once it was tight, I've never touched it or backed off. - The ammo was my handloads (69gr SMK, Benchmark powder, Rem 7-1/2 primers, Rem cases). This particular handload consistently shoots under an inch in the previous AR's I've owned from Rock River. I didn't have another AR at the range yesterday to compare against and know for sure, but my gut tells me that the 6" groups are not an ammo problem. It certainly could be, though, so I'll bring some decent factory ammo along next time, just to see what's what. - Temps were in the upper twenties/lower thirties. It was raining on the way out, and we were commenting that maybe we really didn't need to be out on the winter roads. We saw several bad accidents on our way to the range.
Thoroughly enjoying Alaska since 2001.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,300
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,300 |
well the 1-9 should be OK with the 69MK's so that ain't it, and its not some chineese ardvarkian ammunition, two scopes leans against scope problem unless they were both hosed...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 4,597
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 4,597 |
- I just used a standard A2 flash hider, nothing fancy. It aligned properly without needing a crush washer, so I skipped the crush washer.
- I put the Hogue barrel nut on the way Hogue describes in their directions....finger tight lined up between two holes, so I tightened with their plastic tool to line up with the next available hole. I tightened it in one motion, no back and forth, and the gas tube slides in without issue. Once it was tight, I've never touched it or backed off.
Nice looking build! I'd look at the barrel nut, just one seating of the barrel nut may not have been enough to fully snug the barrel extension into the upper receiver extension. Generally, tightening it down, and loosening back up a few times (3-5) will get the barrel extension fully seated against the upper receiver. I would also get a torque wrench and get to the recommended 30-80 ft lbs. It is possible that the upper reciever face on the extension is out "true" on the top and is forcing the barrel to point down a few degrees. But, it would be as likely as a barrel bored out of true with the bore, possible but not likely.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653 |
Can a plastic barrel nut wrench even get the nut tight enough without stripping?
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474 |
Here is a picture of the rifle: More info to answer some of your questions: - The rifle was built 100% from brand new parts, mostly from Brownells (barrel, handguard, gas tube, gas block, lower parts kit, stock kit). I got the upper and lower receivers from a gun shop. The charging handle and bolt carrier group came from a different shop. If it turns out to be a barrel issue, I'm hoping Brownells will accept a return. - I just used a standard A2 flash hider, nothing fancy. It aligned properly without needing a crush washer, so I skipped the crush washer. - The scope mount is a LaRue that I'd bought 5-6 years ago, directly from LaRue. It's been on 2 or 3 different AR's without issue, so I don't think it's a mount issue. Using two different scopes on the same day, with identical results, leads me to believe it's not an optics issue, either. - I put the Hogue barrel nut on the way Hogue describes in their directions....finger tight lined up between two holes, so I tightened with their plastic tool to line up with the next available hole. I tightened it in one motion, no back and forth, and the gas tube slides in without issue. Once it was tight, I've never touched it or backed off. - The ammo was my handloads (69gr SMK, Benchmark powder, Rem 7-1/2 primers, Rem cases). This particular handload consistently shoots under an inch in the previous AR's I've owned from Rock River. I didn't have another AR at the range yesterday to compare against and know for sure, but my gut tells me that the 6" groups are not an ammo problem. It certainly could be, though, so I'll bring some decent factory ammo along next time, just to see what's what. - Temps were in the upper twenties/lower thirties. It was raining on the way out, and we were commenting that maybe we really didn't need to be out on the winter roads. We saw several bad accidents on our way to the range. Ddin't see this before my last post... thats a bad barrel IMHO.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 4,597
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 4,597 |
Can't be much worse than the orignal rubber strap wrench ideas...
Brother Rost, respectfully, that post doesn't help him much without the "why" behind it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,806
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,806 |
Just for giggles turn your scope mount backwards and see what happens.
Islam is a terrorist organization.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474 |
AH64, you don't always find out why. I love finding out why. But sometimes its not in the cards.
The first thing I"d do, besides flipping the scope mount, would be get a new barrel.
Pull old off, put new on. If problem goes away, its solved. Send old barrel back in with a note etc.... and hope to get your money back.
Sometimes finding out why is too expensive in time... vs just spending that in cash and solving it.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317 |
Dan,
I've got a barrel you can borrow to see if it's the barrel or something else.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 4,597
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 4,597 |
Tracking...you labeled that as a "bad" barrel, IYHO.
Why do you think it's a bad barrel, what in that picture gives it away as bad, that some of us other readers may have missed?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,300
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,300 |
Ddin't see this before my last post... thats a bad barrel IMHO. [/quote] ![[Linked Image]](http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff205/Jimmyp50/the-tonight-show-starring-johnny-carson-carnac-the-magnificent_zps8ddafe3f.jpg)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474 |
Tracking...you labeled that as a "bad" barrel, IYHO.
Why do you think it's a bad barrel, what in that picture gives it away as bad, that some of us other readers may have missed? Sorry, missed the point which I"m apt to do ducking in and out of office during day and speed reading.... 5-6 inch groups would be a good start. As to why. I've not seen an AR that would shoot worse than 2 inches at 100 ever. And that was with the cheapest model one sales barrel you could get. And the fact its hitting a foot or more off, actually more at 100 since its a foot off with max scope adjustment. I've seen barrels that were not snug, still shooting good groups, well under 5-6 inches. I'm inclined to think there is something in there, and it might not only be the barrel but the chamber. I also have barrels Dan can borrow, but I was hoping a local would offer first. Which has happened. But I do have a new Shilen somewhere never fired... if Dan needs to try it.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860 |
[/quote]
I've not seen an AR that would shoot worse than 2 inches at 100 ever. And that was with the cheapest model one sales barrel you could get.
I have, a DPMS SASS. six-seven inch groups @100yd. Same rifle would cloverleaf 77gr Gold Medal.
|
|
|
|
|
572 members (10Glocks, 10ring1, 12344mag, 007FJ, 10gaugemag, 06hunter59, 53 invisible),
2,450
guests, and
1,225
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,191,242
Posts18,466,861
Members73,925
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
![[Linked Image]](http://s134.photobucket.com/user/dvretz/media/73E2B914-ECAA-4DB3-9C1B-DAFA85F726CD-669-0000009E101BABF6_zps965e0ea7.jpg.html)
