Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting AZ 7W Bull tag for my son! Little advice?

I just drew my first choice AZ elk, 7W rifle Bull. Absolutely thrilled. Hunted my first elk with my father in this unit 23 years ago, and now I'm trying to do the same for my 13 year old son. I'll be transfering my tag to him when it arrives in the mail. I've been wanting this exact hunt with him since he was born, so I'm both thrilled, and would really like to get him a decent 4x4 or 5x5 bull. I've no illusions of getting him a 380 class bull or anything <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />, but a decent lesser bull would be very nice, and is what we're shooting for.

He'll be using my .270 with some 150 gr. partitions on the hunt. Practice has been ongoing and will continue with his .243, with some "recoil familiarization" with the .270 so he realizes it won't jump up and bite him when the time comes during the hunt. I just picked up a set of stoney point shooting sticks that I'll have him do a lot of practice from sitting, kneeling, and standing, as well as off hand and field rests.

He's pretty much set for the cold weather. I've outfitted him well for our annual December predator calling trips when I fly him out Xmas vacation, so we know where we stand there.

Can anyone recommend a few good books and videos on the type of post-rut elk hunting we'll be doing? Seems most vids are geared toward calling and early season or archery now.

I hunted elk in this unit as a teenager, and still visit it often, so I'm a little ahead of the game, but it has been since before I left for the Army at 18 that I hunted elk here, or anywhere else for that matter. To say I'm a bit rusty would be an understatement. In no way did I anticipate an elk tag, let alone a bull elk tag this year, so I had been gearing up hoping for a deer tag, and my scouting from out of state has reflected that the past couple years.

Tips or help appreciated. I'll be putting in a lot of scouting time (beginning with an already planned 10 day trip Friday), and plan on making at least 2 trips out a month over the next few months. He lives with mom half way across the country, so this little trip will cost a fortune, and for other obvious reasons, I'm determined to get him a bull and make this as memorable a hunt for him as it was for me at his age.

Dave,

Durwood Hollis has a good book on elk. Its been a while since I have read it, but it should help. What are the dates of the hunt? If I am free, I'd be willing to donate a day or so to your son and help him kill a bull if you'd like. A few of the guys I hunt with know the area well. I see what kind of info I can get for you.

Enrique

It's nice to hear someone with reasonable expectations for a late-season elk hunt in Arizona. The November hunts are tough, and in Unit 7, I don't think I'd be passing up many branch-antlered bulls.

Your scouting time now will mainly be to acquaint yourself with the area, access points, water sources and good glassing points. It's just not likely that the elk will be in the same places now that they will be in November. Your most valuable scouting time would be in the days immediatly preceding the beginning of your hunt. The mature bulls will likely be off by themselves, with some small bulls still hanging around the cows. After the shooting starts, their patterns will change dramatically.

Good luck. I had that hunt two times in the '90s and shot one small branch-antlered bull. It's not an easy hunt, and it can be really cold camping. Be prepared!

Unit 7 was my first elk hunt as a boy in 1971 and it sounds like nothing has changed. AZBob nailed it exactly with what he said.

It's like I told my son last night, that depending on what happens with the scouting over the next few months, my plan is now for the first 3 or 3.5 days is to hold out for a decent mid-sized bull. If we see a few bulls and I feel that will continue, we may extend that time. If we see no bulls, after 3.5 days, all bets are off and the first elk sporting hardware gets the nod. Nothing in the world wrong with a 13 year old taking a spike elk as his first big game animal, and we'd both be tickled if he can pull that off. I'm making sure his expectations are realistic, and he understands he's got a good chance of coming away with nothing but some great memories and an empty tag.

Back in 84, our party of 3 hunters went 3 for 3 with a couple spike/fork horns and a 4x5. We thought we did pretty good. I did bust up a very nice bull on that hunt at about 20 yards still hunting my way up the side of a small mountain when my foot slipped trying to pull myself up a small ledge, but didn't get a shot. That bruiser still haunts my dreams! He also burned into my brain just the type of area the bigger bulls like to call home pressured and post-rut. I don't know how effective still hunting these areas will be with a 13 year old, so I'll be concentrating more on trying to catch one going into or out of these areas in the morning or evening, and possibly trying our hand at still hunting some not so rugged areas in between, or just seeing if we can glass up anything. The where and how of that is what I'm mostly undecided about so far.

It's like I told my son last night, that depending on what happens with the scouting over the next few months, my plan is now for the first 3 or 3.5 days is to hold out for a decent mid-sized bull. If we see a few bulls and I feel that will continue, we may extend that time. If we see no bulls, after 3.5 days, all bets are off and the first elk sporting hardware gets the nod. Nothing in the world wrong with a 13 year old taking a spike elk as his first big game animal, and we'd both be tickled if he can pull that off. I'm making sure his expectations are realistic, and he understands he's got a good chance of coming away with nothing but some great memories and an empty tag.

Back in 84, our party of 3 hunters went 3 for 3 with a couple spike/fork horns and a 4x5. We thought we did pretty good. I did bust up a very nice bull on that hunt at about 20 yards still hunting my way up the side of a small mountain when my foot slipped trying to pull myself up a small ledge, but didn't get a shot. That bruiser still haunts my dreams! He also burned into my brain just the type of area the bigger bulls like to call home pressured and post-rut. I don't know how effective still hunting these areas will be with a 13 year old, so I'll be concentrating more on trying to catch one going into or out of these areas in the morning or evening, and possibly trying our hand at still hunting some not so rugged areas in between, or just seeing if we can glass up anything. The where and how of that is what I'm mostly undecided about so far.

I think John McLendon has a video on rifle bull hunts in AZ called "Winter Bulls"
http://northstarvideopro.com/cgi-bin/plu...ategory_Code=EH

Planning on snow could be iffy. If no snow, they may be tucked away up on Kendrick or Sitgreaves still. The fire on Kendrick a couple years ago opened a lot of slope to viewing. THere should still be some thick timber above Bull Basin onthe north side. If it does snow heavy, maybe have a spotting hill chosen on a cedar knob in the north of the unit for the first light in the morning. Think about their escape routes and where the other hunters will run em opening morning. Plan a scouting trip(s) after the rifle cow and deer hunts to see where the bulls have been pushed (But sounds like you'll be doing that).

Have a great hunt with your son.

Doug~RR

Congrats on your draw. Asside from having your boy practice with his rifle, I would also teach him to hunt slowly. That little tid bit is often overlooked. Post rut elk are a little different, and Unit 7 may be as tricky as any. Often they don't come out of the thick stuff until long after shooting light and they're back in before the sun comes up. That being said, I know hunters who have walked to the edge of a park on opening morning (and not that early) and have seen raghorns just hanging out - hunt over. I hope it comes this easy to you. I drew a bull tag last year and they all seemed to bed very early. I decided to go in after them and tip toed through some bedding area. I took my bull at 40 yards. Which brings up another point - I hear those shooting sticks are great, but have your boy practice off hand too. My bull gave me about three seconds to 1) decide to take him, and 2) make the shot. That's a second to unsling the rifle, a second to analyze the situation and a second to squeeze one off in the right spot. And in my opinion, there's nothing wrong with a 38 year old taking a spike elk either. He's absolutely delicious. My only other peace of advise...realize that it's far more important to be able to hunt with your 13-year-old son than it is to actually harvest an animal. There's a lot of other things besided harvesting an animal that can make this hunt great for both of you - and you have a lot more control over those things. I remember being proud the trip I started my own camp fire or when I cooked something good for everyone else. Don't let not getting an elk ruin a good trip. Good luck!

Thanks for the advice. I intend to do just as you say. My most memorable hunt as a kid, and the one that left me with a love for 7W like no other unit was the year I did not take anything. I still hunted up on a very nice bull, but busted him off his bed, and also still hunted up on the biggest typical muley I've personally seen to date and got to watch him from 15 yards for half an hour. That trip sold me on still hunting, and I intend to begin my son's practice with that Saturday. We'll be working much of next week on still hunting up on the bedded elk during the day so he can see what it takes, and can get his confidence up in this type of hunting.

He understands hunting, and does very well preator hunting. He knows how to walk quietly, where to walk to increase odds of avoiding detection, how to sit quietly and without movement on a stand, and is a pretty good shot in the heat of the hunt, having taken 4 coyotes to date with some fairly difficult shots for a kid his age. He keeps his cool pretty good. All of this hunting and shooting has been meant to get him ready for this hunt. While I'd have preferred he had a Javelina and couple of deer hunts under his belt first, I'll work with what I've got. I'm continually stressing to him how fortunate he is and to not take this for granted. Seeing how his eyes welled up just a bit when I informed him he not only drew an elk tag, but a bull elk tag to boot in our favorite hunting area, I think he's on the right track.

While I'd be incredibly pleased in he could take a bull on opening morning, I'd be more pleased if he had to work for it, experience what elk hunting is all about, and harvest one toward the end of the season. I don't want this to come easy for him, because to me that's not what elk hunting is all about. But, we won't be turning away any 4x4's or the like come opening morning either. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> And he already knows that even with me knowing the area rather well and that I'll be putting a lot of work into the scouting process, his chances of taking any bull is still less than a coin flip.

He might wind up without a bull and a little dissapointed, but I guarantee he'll have the time of his life and leave an elk hunter with memories to last a lifetime.

November can't get here fast enough!

RedRabbit, thanks for the tip on the video. Ordered it yesterday.

DaveR, Been many years sinced I hunted elk in AZ and then on the eastern units..mostly 27, 5A .

Here's an excerpt from the Az game & Fish:
They say for the late hunts, you really need to do the bulk of your scouting the week before the opener as weather has a large influence on where the elk will be.
That's a dray area..and so water of any sort from seeps in the timber to stock tanks will be a magnet even in the late fall.jim

Elk
NOTE: MOST ELK HUNTS IN THIS UNIT ARE RESTRICTED EITHER TO UNIT 7 WEST OR UNIT 7 EAST. UNIT 7M IS A SEPARATE UNIT AND IS NOT OPEN TO ELK FIREARMS HUNTS.

Overview: Elk occur throughout Unit 7 except in open, extensive grasslands. Prior to significant snowfall, which seldom takes place before late November, elk occupy summer range. With two feet or more of snow, elk will leave the higher elevations and congregate on winter ranges. Winter ranges for elk in the unit include the ecotone between ponderosa pine and the pinyon-juniper woodland and the pinyon-juniper woodland. In Unit 7, these habitat types occur north of the three major topographic features: the San Francisco Peaks (Unit 7 East) and Kendrick Mountain and Sitgreaves Mountain (Unit 7 West).

Prior to heavy snowfall and the first day of the hunting season, elk can often be sighted in meadows and open grasslands on summer range. Summer range for elk includes the entire unit except for extensive grasslands, as mentioned above. The highest densities of elk on summer range are usually at elevations above the pinyon-juniper habitat type. However, elk are sensitive to food availability and will move to lower elevations if summer rains improve forage conditions there. Burned areas appeal to elk but the animals usually abandon such open sites after the first day or two of the hunt.

Areas: Remember that elk permits are issued specifically for and are restricted to either Unit 7 West or Unit 7 East.

The fall of 2005 will be the seventh year the Department has made an effort to significantly reduce the population of elk in Unit 7 East to protect new aspen and other resources. In October of 2002, the firearms hunt success for antler-less elk was 23% in Unit 7 East and 54% in Unit 7 West. These data indicate by comparison, a lower elk population in Unit 7 East. In October of 2004, the firearms hunt success for antler-less elk was 28% in Unit 7 East and 56% in Unit 7 West. This data continues to indicate that the elk population in 7 East continues to be lower than the population in 7 West.

On summer range, elk will be found in Unit 7 East on the new burns north of the San Francisco Peaks. In Unit 7 West, check out Government Prairie north of Parks and the southwest corner of the unit near Williams. With two feet of snow, the elk will move out of the ponderosa pine type and can be found north of the major mountain ranges noted above. Once the elk have left summer range and have been pursued by hunters into the dense pinyon-juniper woodlands, they are difficult to hunt.

Your best bet for locating elk is to go out and look for the animals and their tracks 2 or 3 days before the start of your hunt.

Access: The Forest Service and the State Land Department manage most of the land in Unit 7. These lands are available for hunting by licensed hunters. Forest Service maps for the Coconino and south Kaibab Forests can be obtained from most Forest Service offices in the state and will cover most areas in the Unit occupied by elk. Be sure you do not enter any areas posted against trespass.

Concerns: Leave all gates as you find them. If they are open, leave them open. If they are closed, be sure and close them when you exit or enter a pasture. Avoid littering and avoid driving off-road when hunting. These two activities are very aggravating to land managers and private landowners. We will cite people for hunting from a vehicle if they are traveling off-road in motorized vehicles and if they have weapons. No vehicles, including bicycles, are allowed in designated wilderness areas. On other public lands and on state land, you may travel cross-country in a motorized vehicle to pick up downed game.

The Unit has some access problems because of remote subdivisions. These developments are increasing across private lands. Be sure of your background when making that shot - houses, which seem to spring up overnight, can be obscured by vegetation or rolling topography. If an area is sign posted, avoid that area and stay at least 1/4 mile away from occupied buildings when shooting at game. Also, camping within 1/4 mile of a water source is prohibited.

I killed a bull in that unit in '91, I hunted further up north but Dog Knob or something like that. It got really cold towards the end of the hunt with below zero temps all day. some of the horses got frostbite, my mustang was pretty wooly and did fine. Killed my bull in a blizzard with a 30-30 at 40 yds. To this day, it is the only bull I have ever recovered whole- all the rest had to be quartered to get them back to camp.

I have buddy who has hunted up there a lot the last few years. I need to see if he has been in 7E or 7W- when I hunted, it was just unit 7, with no east or west divider.

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