|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424
Campfire Sage
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 |
Travis, I'm just making a suggestion here, in order to invite conversation. I'm not anti-police, and actually worked in law enforcement for 10 years. I don't believe all cops are bad, nor even most of them. But something needs to be done to curtail the growing number of wrongful shootings. If you don't like my idea, then what would your suggestion be?
There's nothing to suggest. LE are subjected to the same legal proceedings as everybody else. If a department or agency is corrupt, that is due to an internal problem that typically stems from the elected officials in that area. If a department or agency enforces outlandish laws, that's because the elected officials in that area are telling them to do so. Use of Force is Use of Force is Use of Force. It's either legal within, or it isn't. Grand Juries decide that. Same as they do for you and me. Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,625
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,625 |
Some jurisdictions are more open about that than others. I was reading this morning about a 2004 Wisconsin case where an officer shot & killed a 22 year old that was scheduled to testify against him in court the next day. His department cleared him of any wrongdoing in 48 hours, before they even received any lab/forensic results back. Here's the story, if you want to read it. Link Why would you have any problems with that officer doing what needed to be done?
"My message to my troops is if you see anybody carrying a gun on the streets of Milwaukee, we'll put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide whether you have a right to carry it." - Milwaukee Police Chief Ed Flynn
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300
Campfire Oracle
|
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300 |
On a serious note, I have a suggestion that I think would cut down on a lot of these police shootings. Any cop firing his weapon would face automatic criminal charges. If everything was done legit, then he/she'd beat it in court. Just knowing that they would have to face the music would, I think, cut down on a lot of the trigger happy behavior. Sooooo, we can schittcan the whole " Innocent until proven guilty " concept too...?
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,716
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,716 |
On a serious note, I have a suggestion that I think would cut down on a lot of these police shootings. Any cop firing his weapon would face automatic criminal charges. If everything was done legit, then he/she'd beat it in court. Just knowing that they would have to face the music would, I think, cut down on a lot of the trigger happy behavior. Have to disagree. That would create strong disincentives to anyone taking the job. Defending a murder case will cost years of a person's life and hundreds of thousands of dollars. And Travis is spot on, police are subject to the same review by a grand jury as every citizen. Criminal actions should be reserved mostly for those people who present a physical danger to the public such a violent individuals, rapists, burglars, and also for thieves. Most cases including all of the recent shooting cases receiving attention should be the province of civil cases, where people can be held responsible for actions, but they do not present an ongoing physical danger to the public. Defending a civil action is covered by insurance in most instances and yet the person faces accountability for their conduct. For the police, make their departments and cities liable for their actions, and budgets for adequate manpower, support, and training will increase. As it stands now in many states, in a civil case the officer faces personal liability, while their employer does not. That puts no incentive on the employer to help improve the skills and performance of their employees.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,949
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,949 |
Link to ArticleIn this season where we seem to be hearing about another murder by police every week or so, I've read a lot of anti-cop stuff, most of it merely angry and unconsidered. I certainly understand the anger, but it's unfortunate to see people writing before they think. Enter Gary North. He's been doing some thinking, and that's refreshing to see. Of course, he's probably a little too innovative for the taste of most of the folks here, but I still find his ideas new and fresh...although they're actually not new at all. Excerpt:
A policeman would gain obedience, like James Stewart in Destry Rides Again, through judicial empowerment. He would not threaten anyone with immediate violence. He would simply say, �Folks, I�ve got a problem here. This person is resisting arrest. Would three of you accompany me to the local station with this individual?�
He would blow his whistle, and a dozen sawed-off shotguns accompanied by people would be there within 60 seconds.
Every member of society would be trained from an early age to honor the law as an adult by being willing to carry a handgun. Everyone would see himself as a defender of the law and a peace-keeper. Guns would be universal. Every criminal would know that the man or woman next to him is armed and dangerous. He would be surrounded at all times by people who see their task as defending themselves and others against the likes of him.
The only person he could trust not to shoot him dead in his tracks for becoming an aggressor would be the policeman on the beat. The aggressor�s place of safety would be custody.
Sir Robert Peel felt the same way hence the "Bobbies" in London. Yea, but if you give the bobbies crap they call in the Army.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 8,900
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 8,900 |
On a serious note, I have a suggestion that I think would cut down on a lot of these police shootings. Any cop firing his weapon would face automatic criminal charges. If everything was done legit, then he/she'd beat it in court. Just knowing that they would have to face the music would, I think, cut down on a lot of the trigger happy behavior. Sooooo, we can schittcan the whole " Innocent until proven guilty " concept too...? Maybe actual criminal charges wouldn't be necessary, but how about review by an impartial outside agency or commission? Not all cases are reviewed by grand juries, and, in the ones that are, the outcome is mostly decided by how, or if, the DA presents the case.
Last edited by HilhamHawk; 12/14/14.
While it's true that all liberals are crazy people, not all crazy people are liberals.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,716
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,716 |
On a serious note, I have a suggestion that I think would cut down on a lot of these police shootings. Any cop firing his weapon would face automatic criminal charges. If everything was done legit, then he/she'd beat it in court. Just knowing that they would have to face the music would, I think, cut down on a lot of the trigger happy behavior. Sooooo, we can schittcan the whole " Innocent until proven guilty " concept too...? Maybe actual criminal charges wouldn't be necessary, but how about review by an impartial outside agency or commission? That is what a grand jury is. They are ordinary citizens off of the street. Size varies by state, but most serve a few months reviewing cases and then go back to their ordinary lives.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,098
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,098 |
On a serious note, I have a suggestion that I think would cut down on a lot of these police shootings. Any cop firing his weapon would face automatic criminal charges. If everything was done legit, then he/she'd beat it in court. Just knowing that they would have to face the music would, I think, cut down on a lot of the trigger happy behavior. Sooooo, we can schittcan the whole " Innocent until proven guilty " concept too...? Maybe actual criminal charges wouldn't be necessary, but how about review by an impartial outside agency or commission? You mean something like a Grand Jury.....
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 8,900
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 8,900 |
Not all cases are reviewed by grand juries, and, in the ones that are, the outcome is mostly decided by how, or if, the DA presents the case. In the link I posted earlier, or one of the links off of that one, it stated that the previous DA had never, in 30 years, charged any officer with any improper use of force, including deadly force.
While it's true that all liberals are crazy people, not all crazy people are liberals.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,625
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,625 |
There's nothing to suggest. LE are subjected to the same legal proceedings as everybody else.
Oh now, no need to lie about that here because we all think just like you do. Police are exempt, either in the laws/ordinances or in practice. Common wording included in laws and ordinances: "B. Subsection A of this section does not apply to: 1. The use of a handheld mobile telephone for the sole purpose of communicating with any of the following regarding an emergency situation: ..... e. A police department. 2. Any of the following persons while in the performance of their official duties and within the scope of their employment: a. A public safety officer as defined in section 44-4-401, Montana Code Annotated; and .... (Ord. 3146, 11-7-2011) http://sterlingcodifiers.com/codebook/index.php?book_id=401§ion_id=771866Police lobby for exemptions on everything so it doesn't look quite as onerous versus just not applying it to themselves: http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/...w_against_prostitution.html?id=251369561
"My message to my troops is if you see anybody carrying a gun on the streets of Milwaukee, we'll put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide whether you have a right to carry it." - Milwaukee Police Chief Ed Flynn
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,625
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,625 |
On a serious note, I have a suggestion that I think would cut down on a lot of these police shootings. Any cop firing his weapon would face automatic criminal charges. If everything was done legit, then he/she'd beat it in court. Just knowing that they would have to face the music would, I think, cut down on a lot of the trigger happy behavior. Sooooo, we can schittcan the whole " Innocent until proven guilty " concept too...? Maybe actual criminal charges wouldn't be necessary, but how about review by an impartial outside agency or commission? That is what a grand jury is. They are ordinary citizens off of the street. Size varies by state, but most serve a few months reviewing cases and then go back to their ordinary lives. Great idea. The same people who didn't go after Darren Wilson for false arrest and submitting a false police report in 2013 got to decide what evidence those ordinary citizens got to see during the Grand Jury proceedings: http://ago.mo.gov/publications/courtprocess.pdf
"My message to my troops is if you see anybody carrying a gun on the streets of Milwaukee, we'll put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide whether you have a right to carry it." - Milwaukee Police Chief Ed Flynn
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,716
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,716 |
Sherp, citizens get the government they want and accept. If that is the local attitude, then they are governing themselves and choosing to accept one standard of conduct over another. Juries of ordinary citizens off the street, whether grand or petit, is preferable to a panel of government political appointees making decisions of who to indict and convict, and safer for citizens. Our legal system is highly imperfect, but it affords more rights to more citizens than most any other legal system in the world.
Someone once said, freedom comes from three boxes, the ballot box, the jury box, and the ammo box. Watch for efforts to restrict and alter the right to those three.
There is no barrier to filing a civil case by a citizen. In a civil case, the lawyers will go after the defendant vigorously, no need to worry about that, but even then, a jury of local citizens will have to make the final decision.
And the problem with satire is that about half of the audience does not recognize it as such.
Since you must like Voltaire, an interesting thought of his: "Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do."
See if your local department allows for ride alongs. If so, go try that for a few days. It will add some interesting perspective.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424
Campfire Sage
|
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 |
Not all cases are reviewed by grand juries, and, in the ones that are, the outcome is mostly decided by how, or if, the DA presents the case. In the link I posted earlier, or one of the links off of that one, it stated that the previous DA had never, in 30 years, charged any officer with any improper use of force, including deadly force. Dude, not every case for citizens goes before a GJ either. Unless the state law mandates it. And if the state law mandates it, the same goes for LE. Again, if the DA is dirty, he's dirty. New policy and changes in law shouldn't have to take place because somebody is dirty. Get his ass removed (if you can prove it) or start changing your local elections. Don't drink the "broken legal system kool aid" that is being poured down everybody's throats right now. Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424
Campfire Sage
|
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 |
sherp,
We all know the only reason you come here is to suck on Bluedreaux's COCK.
Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653 |
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 8,900
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 8,900 |
But, how is it? Is he a scraper?
While it's true that all liberals are crazy people, not all crazy people are liberals.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 |
On a serious note, I have a suggestion that I think would cut down on a lot of these police shootings. Any cop firing his weapon would face automatic criminal charges. If everything was done legit, then he/she'd beat it in court. Just knowing that they would have to face the music would, I think, cut down on a lot of the trigger happy behavior. I think we should have a tag system. Three tags and your career is done. If you make it 'til retirement without using any, you get to cull whatever you want.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,625
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,625 |
Sherp, citizens get the government they want and accept. If that is the local attitude, then they are governing themselves and choosing to accept one standard of conduct over another. Juries of ordinary citizens off the street, whether grand or petit, is preferable to a panel of government political appointees making decisions of who to indict and convict, and safer for citizens. Our legal system is highly imperfect, but it affords more rights to more citizens than most any other legal system in the world.
Someone once said, freedom comes from three boxes, the ballot box, the jury box, and the ammo box.
There is no barrier to filing a civil case by a citizen. In a civil case, the lawyers will go after the defendant vigorously, no need to worry about that, but even then, a jury of local citizens will have to make the final decision.
And the problem with satire is that about half of the audience does not recognize it as such.
Since you must like Voltaire, an interesting thought of his: "Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do."
See if your local department allows for ride alongs. If so, go try that for a few days. It will add some interesting perspective. I wasn't complaining at all since I am just like you. I want police in the Aloha State to be able to have sex with prostitutes without fear of penalty then arrest the whores if they complain too much about not getting paid for their services.
"My message to my troops is if you see anybody carrying a gun on the streets of Milwaukee, we'll put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide whether you have a right to carry it." - Milwaukee Police Chief Ed Flynn
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,625
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,625 |
sherp,
We all know the only reason you come here is to suck on Bluedreaux's COCK.
Travis Nope, keep telling you I am just a plain, straight Republican and not a member of the Log Cabin Wing like you and several others are.
"My message to my troops is if you see anybody carrying a gun on the streets of Milwaukee, we'll put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide whether you have a right to carry it." - Milwaukee Police Chief Ed Flynn
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301 |
wouldn't it be easier to just disarm everyone? problem solved. you can thank me later. i'm on to curing cancer. Removing everyone's arms and legs would help end violence.
The first time I shot myself in the head...
Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
|
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,191,279
Posts18,467,662
Members73,928
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
