Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Deer Hunting Question For PA Deer Hunters???

Last year while different than this one, was similar in that I saw pretty much the same number of Deer. Then on the last Friday a good snow storm moved in and they were out and getting groceries. Saw 40 some and they didn't care that I saw them. Could have shot at least 20 different Does.

Thought hmmmm, there are more than enough and definitely the Buck/Doe relationship is out of proportion. Held of on Friday because I knew Saturday with 6 inches of snow would be a great day to hunt. They were holed up tight, but finally bounced 4 out of their bed in the afternoon and shot one. Regular sized Doe and would like to have had horns, but it was a hunt to remember.
Everything was just about perfect.

However, they got a little even with me. The logging road on the way down was pretty much ice. Slipped of the side and jammed the truck into a hole. Knocked the front end out of alignment.

They used to issue doe permits by county. Now by unit which is a larger area. does not make sense. It is impossible to control where hunting pressure is in a large area. People hunt where they want to or can get to.

Excess pressure is controlled in a larger unit. Most will hunt the easy locations, the more difficult ones and the more of them available become natural refuges of safe haven.

Most Pa hunters don't want to hunt a Doe. They want to just shoot one quick and go home.


ADDITION: an old Doe that has 4 or so seasons of experience, is a lot more attuned to her surroundings than the majority of Bucks killed.

Find yourself an old Doe by herself and a big older Buck may not be far away. He has learned to allow her to be on point because she is good at it.

I'm not much threat to the Doe herd. I've kept my Doe license in my pocket three years straight. I'm only interested in shooting a mature Doe, preferably dry, and I just haven't been seeing any.

This is a good discussion.

I'm old enough to remember the good ol days of PA hunting. Shot my first deer in 1975 in the corner of Elk County not far from Lolita. She was in a herd of ~ 40 at 9 AM. I saw ~ 20 I couldn't get a good shot at before I shot mine. Before we got out of the woods that day, I know we saw 100+ deer.

Those days are over. I recall deer numbers dropping significantly in the following years - before the increase in doe licenses. I didn't understand it at the time but do now. The habitat couldn't support those numbers. I moved to east Tennessee 6 years ago. It is lot like the central part of PA - mountainous, laurel, steep, alot of oaks - if you didn't know you were in TN, you'd think it was Renovo or some similar place. The deer density is low; I'd even venture to say identical to the central part of PA. The first year I hunted down here I saw 8 deer on the first day, passed a small 6 pt, and thought it a pretty average day. Compared to my buddies, it was a season's worth of deer sightings in one day. The following years have borne that out. I've hunted ~ 7-8 days and parts of others this year and have seen 1 small buck and 9-10 does. This is a bit less than I've seen in the past couple years but everyone is noting the lack of deer sightings in TN. I think the answer, this year, is the huge crop of acorns. I see lots of deer sign in areas that have oaks and laurel mixed. I believe the deer are staying in the laurel to eat, breed, hide - all without leaving security. I've jumped more than a few deer in that type of cover.

The other mitigating factor is the drop in the number of hunters and the method of hunting has changed. License sales have dropped by ~ 25-30% since the 1970's-80's. We see it in our area of NW PA. So you get a two-fer - fewer guys and more guys sitting. Result less deer moving around. I understand the frustration from those that used to see a gazilion deer but struggle to sympathize. Things have changed and most haven't changed with the times. I know guys that have sat in the same stand for 20+ years. Until this year, my Dad sat in the same tree since 1984. That stand has produced at least one buck every year since 1984 and multiple bucks in numerous years. The landowner logged the woods this past summer. For the first time since 1984, we didn't kill a buck on that piece of land. I did manage to miss one on the first saturday but it wasn't on that piece of land. I've been trying to get my Dad to broaden his horizons for the past 20 years in anticipation of this day. We are in the process of finding new hunting ground in the event things are permanently changed at our favorite spot.

As to doe licenses, I'm a bit miffed but for selfish reasons. Now as a non-resident, I get to apply a couple weeks after residents - all the doe licenses are gone in my home area (1B) before I can even apply. I spent 45 years of my life living in PA and now can't seem to get a doe license. Shooting a doe with a rifle in 1B is remarkably easy although some still seem to have unfilled licenses at the end of the year. I'm starting to believe guys buy all the licenses they can and simply don't use them. I'm ok with that strategy - if thats what is happening. I suspect, and know for certain in at least 2 instances, that an entire family gets a doe license but only one shooter exists in the family but everyone gets a doe. This pisses me off and I'm likely to start turning people in if things don't improve. If you need the meat fine, I'll give you some of mine. In the instances I know of, this isn't the case. Its simply a bragging deal.

+100

An old doe is harder to kill then your average buck, especially f she has fawns with her. I've been spied by more old does than bucks by a large margin over the years.

I've eaten my doe tag a couple of times. I really like doe hunting but with some form of limited range weapon. I've shot them with flintlocks, pistols, bows, shotguns, and rifles. I really, really like still hunting does with an iron sighted revolver. I like that almost as much as hunting a buck. Rifle season gives me more opportunities because of the increased deer movement. It is a kick and we do it alot.

One of the mistakes we made in the 1990's on our land was to take a bunch of kids on the land to shoot a doe. They ended up shooting 4 button bucks. Buck hunting took a hit for 3-4 years after that incident. Many times its tough to tell apart buck fawns from doe fawns but we normally don't shoot deer in multiple family units. Big, single does are the goal.

First part, I dont agree with at all. Not going to argue with you, just dont agree. the forest in our area has essentially remained the same since I started hunting in 82. Plenty of logging every year, plenty of mast, though some years slimmer than others, but enough to hold them through. Im seeing a lot of guys not knowing how to hunt the big woods, or grasp hunting at all. Not judging, cause im in their shoes on farmland down here where I live. Deer kick my ass down here. But that brings me to the 2nd part..

I call BS on lack of hunters and laying blame there. I agree wholeheartedly there are a lot less hunters. But thats no excuse. Less hunters means deer will travel naturally. Bear hunters do indeed get the deer stirred up, but by rifle theyre back to normal patterns. Get passed the 1st day or two and guys go home, lack of pressure sends them right back to normal patterns. End of the first week, and 2nd week, can be very good. But most hunters will still fall short. They either give up, or dont know how to hunt. With deer numbers being absolutely pathetic in some areas, that means you actually have to work at it.

Last couple I got

In the laurel



Escape route




Escape route



Scent checking old clearcut(strong 2nd rut this year)



Not much different than the first buck I ever shot, in the laurel





I dont like hunters, and rather stay far away from you. Dont get me wrong, theyre times you "hunt the hunters" but by far id rather play the deer on their own turf. Just because deer and hunter numbers suck ass dont mean you cant fill that tag. To be completely honest, though I dont like the low numbers, im just as happy as ive ever been hunting. Frustrating sometimes, but no matter the number of hunters or deer, you have to make it work for you.

I agree on how you hunt....I much prefer to hunt deer acting like deer and not the panic-driven frenzy rifle season can be.

I loved the low pressure this year....deer acting like deer are deer I can hunt much more successfully.

Ive got a doe tag twice since 82. Not much sense shooting doe when the numbers are down. That said, ill be red taggin it down home here this year where some farms are getting hammered. I intentionally havent shot a doe since 85. Not sure how ill feel doing it, but locals need some help on the farms round here. Since I havent shot a doe in so many years, the mindset from upstate is stuck in my head, and I find myself struggling with the thought of it, down here. Theres no mistaking it needs done down here though. Some are suffering huge loss to deer damage.

Yup, you have to have that bow hunters mentality when the pressures low. Big woods means lay of the land, path of least resistance and bedding areas(screw food sources). When the pressure kicks in, again lay of the land, but think thick and"I need to get the hell outta here fast". Whether pressured or not, you just cant beat public land big woods bucks! I love it!

These two quotes sum it up really well for me. In my view, half (maybe more than half) the problem with PA hunting is PA hunters...being inconsiderate, wildly disturbing the ecosystem & wondering why they don't see any deer, and bitching and whining about deer numbers or whatever else. PA has one of the best public access to hunting opportunities in the east, and hunters ought to embrace that, as pahick suggests and adapt.

Hunted Pa. for two weeks this year.. Saw bucks, but tough to put enough points on them.. Although a couple were legal.. They escaped after I realized the fact.. Does seem less plentiful..

pahick - we can agree to disagree. My post was not a complaining post to bemoan the lack of deer sightings and blame it on other hunters. I always choose less deer density/fewer hunters than higher deer density/more hunters. As an aside, I too prefer to hunt deer undisturbed - they are easier to figure out than when hunters are moving them around.

I am curious how deer numbers in 1982 compare to 2014 in the areas you reference. I hunted alot in Warren and Elk counties in the late 70 and early 80's. There is not the same number of deer in those areas today as there was in the late 70's, early 80's time period. The deer numbers dropped off in the early 1980's - and increased doe licenses didn't start till the early 90's if my memory serves me. As an aside my family hails from Clearfield County and my grandfather and father stated the same observation - their experience dates back to the 50's.

Something to chew on with respect to hunter mobility: I sense that I'm a bit older than you. As such, I remember the revolution that was the Baker treestand. The first one I remember belonged to my uncle who bought it to archery hunt from. The only treestands I recall from my youth were wooden fixtures nailed to trees. The Baker allowed you to hunt anywhere suitable trees were found. I recall very, very few people hunting from treestands in rifle season and certainly none in a portable before the early 80's. Possibly it could just be my part of PA. This year I watched 2 guys climbing treestands within site of my first location. My Dad, brother and I are likely representative of the modern deer hunter - we've been using climbing treestands almost exclusively for 25+ years. I normally hunt brushy areas that are virtually impossible to hunt from the ground - without a TS, you would push those deer toward other hunters if trying to hunt there. Its my position that this evolution occurred in NW PA, southern NY, and eastern OH about the same time. I hunted all three of those states in the same year during that time frame and saw the same thing.

As to fewer hunters, its a numerical fact that fewer hunters exist now than at about any earlier time in history. Having hunted in more than few States under natural and man-induced movement conditions, I think its a bit of a stretch to infer that deer movement isn't increased when hunters are moving around the woods. The inference being less guys = less deer total movement. Last year on the first day of rifle I saw 49 deer from my treestand. This year I saw 24, 22 between noon and 4:30. I mentioned watching people climbing trees this year. I saw at least 1 other guy from my treestand as well. I saw 24 deer, mostly around noon. I hunted the first saturday, which was crappy - 36 degrees and rain/fog. I saw not a single guy and 1 deer from the exact same stand, with the exact same wind conditions. My Dad saw 0. This past saturday was a repeat of the first saturday. No guys, 1 deer sighting - until my Dad and brother got down and made loops through known deer bedding areas. 10 deer were seen in 1 hr. We've hunted this area for 30 years. We know where the deer eat, bed, travel - travel both under natural conditions and when pushed. I've seen this many, many times in my areas and its not a remarkable coincidence. I probably won't be convinced that less hunters that are less mobile don't result in less total deer sightings.

I'd gather by your reference to bear hunters, you live/hunt in the 'big woods'. I don't doubt deer get back to their normal patterns in a few days after bear season. I think the difference is the amount of pressure actually experienced by the deer during bear season in your area. Overall, I think deer in those type scenarios have much less overall pressure than their farmland brethren.

This was a long-winded way of saying we can disagree on amount of hunter movement and deer habitat. I agree wholeheartedly about hunter expertise and made reference to such in my post - things have changed but the hunters, for the most part, have not. Your pictures don't display for me but don't doubt you've shot some decent bucks or you wouldn't be posting them. My representation from last year - big 8 pt from eastern TN, shot high on the mountain with no agricultural fields within 10 miles; a 10 pt shot from the aforementioned treestand about 100 yards from a PA farm field. I could post numerous pictures of both environments plus a few from western states but don't think this is a bigger wanger discussion. To your point on hunting where no people go - thats why I hunt the mountains of east Tennessee. Love the mountains and the fact that I see no people. I may have a few sheds from bucks I'm trying to figure out. They are there, the people are not.

There is no argument about less PA hunters around here. The shooting you hear now is down to almost nothing. The first Saturday was the buck and doe opener around here and you would have thought there was no season open at all. I am seeing more sign of deer at some areas again, but it is slow. I think the PAGC is getting better and actually trying to correct their mistakes. Cutting back on doe tags around here is a start. This year they started controlled burns in my area instead of worthless clear cut nonsense. Closing snowshoe season the other year and dropping it back to a couple days this year shows they are starting to pay attention to what is REALLY going on. I mean, how many of you guys ever even think about snowshoes? If you hike this area you can see there is a definite drop in the shoe population. I have never been against doe hunting and it is necessary, but trying to control deer overpopulation where people can not hunt by issuing more and more tags is a waste of time. If the herd was ever out of balance, it was when King Alt was in charge. Maybe some of the problems will work themselves out, who knows what is down the road.

When I lived there I used a cigar to be sure I was moving into the wind..... I had an uncle I used to hunt with that smoke one cigarette after another and he was alwaus the first one to tag a deer. Dont blame smokers on the lack of deer.....LOL!

I hunt 3C,

I hunt a few places my family farms in Northern Lackawanna county. Started hunting in the late 90's and feel the hunting's better than ever. Plenty of doe, and bigger bucks are more common. Actually this year some of our crops took a beating. The only real complaint I have is the atv's run the mountain tops and the deer get pushed pretty hard.

I also hunt in Susquehanna county, I'd say there are more deer up there in general, usually see plenty of doe and bucks here and there.

pahick noted something I also noticed, the 2nd rut was strong this year. I saw a few bucks with nose down following does. On some of our drives we put buck out that would not leave doe. Lots of rubs/scrapes that I didn't see the last week in archery. Anybody got any ideas why?

Yes we can. Ill comment more on your post tomorrow. Ive got some major stomach pain going on right now. Hope you understand.




Weather. A lot of guys get wrapped up in moon phase and other such witchery but its BS IMO. Keep a journal, one of the best things a hunter can do for himself. 93,96,2002..just a few of the years we've seen a vague 1st rut, distinct 2nd, and 3rd. If you head back out for muzzleloader hunt like you would Oct 18-30th. Youre gonna see rut activity around the end of the first week on. As I said above, got some issues going on or id write more. Sorry just feeling like crap right now.

In my area of PA deer hunting has never been better. A hunter could could fill twenty tags per day if they were so inclined. If you pay for the tags at the courthouse, you can pretty much shoot unlimited deer.