Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics Leupold VX-3 vs Night Force 2-10x42

Serious - and I know NF owners are proud of their scopes

Owners of the VX-3 with CDS and/or M1s -

1. Any tracking issues?
2. Failures of any kind?

I ask this as it was long awaited for NF fans to have a 42mm version in this zoom range, I see Pros/Cons.

Con on the NF I see:
Price, weight, and reviews of less than expected glass quality.

I know the NF has a bullet proof reputation, but sell me on the value of a NF for 3x the price of a VX-3.

Looking for fact based info from experienced owners, not looking to pick an argument, just have a logic based discussion. Thanks in advance.

All of my VX3's (3.5-10) and FX3's have been great. I don't shoot as much as Stick and others, but I burn my share of powder, and all of them have been rock solid.
Never owned a NF, so can't comment

I've got 4 of the CDS Leupy's, 2 of them VX3's, and my buddy has a couple, and another buddy has another couple. Over the past 3 years we've had zero issues with tracking, repeatability, or anything else. Can't speak for my friends, but my two VX3 CDS scopes have had about 500 rounds through them combined. If I were a tactical dude (which I'm not), and my desire was to spin the ever loving' pizza out of my turrets every day, then I'd probably go NF. As a regular hunting type, I'm not sure you will find a better hunting scope than the VX3, unless it's a VX6!

I know this isn't exactly what you're referring to, but I've had two 50+MM NF's side by side with my VX6 for 3-4 days at a time, and the VX6 was superior optically in both cases. I could dial out to 900 and everywhere in between zero (200) many times, doing everything the NF did.

Thanks for the input guys. JG, I don't shoot Tacticool matches so it sounds like I have no worries with tracking. Those who do, and have issues with Leupy's may well do a lot more turret cranking on an annual basis. The VX-6's seem to have a good reputation. I never needed more zoom range than say a 3 but nice to know Leupy is holding it's own with current offerings given it's price point advantage.

I was contemplating a 2-10 (CDS/M1 ele) or 4-14 (30mm LR w/CDS or M1) - the former has many happy users overall, the latter mixed due to FOV it seems. I still may run a fixed 6x but if I want to do some LR Gongs or hunting, esp varmints, the 10 or 14 might be handy.

JG - what ranges, target size/game, and model VX-3 are you running for those? Thanks again.

What's the difference in price? Hate to say it but Leupold broke my heart. I'd look at the Nightforce...

IIRC a VX-3 CDS/M1 can be had for around 450-500, and a NF 1350+

My setups are as follows:

Tikka 7mm08, 2810fps, 140 AB's, 3.5-10x40 VX3, 200 yd zero, can get out to 625yds. I've shotloads of aoudad (acutally my son has), mule deer, whitetails, and a few hogs out to 480 yds, countless 8-10" gongs and rocks out to the 625.

Nosler 48 7mm08, 2835fps, 140AB's, 3.5-10x40 VX5, 200 yd zero, gets maxed out at 650yds. Same sized targets, as I try to stick to shooting vital sized targets. Only killed one deer so far with it at 200'ish.

Hill Country Rifles 7mmRM, 3-18x44 VX6 150 BST's, 3175fps, 200 yd zero, maxes out at 930yds. Killed several mule deer with it, and vital sized targets numerous times. The previous scope on this rifle was the 4.5-14x50 VX3LR CDS w/SF. Same setup, would max out at 775 (IIRC)due to 15MOA per turn w/ zero stop. I also have a custom dial for 160gr AB's for this rifle and scope.

Tikka 695 7mm RM, 2-12x42 VX6 CDS, 160 AB's @ 3050fps. 200yd zero, maxes out at 900 yds. Same targets as above, African game, several mule deer bucks, and an absolute crapload of aoudad culls.

I'm not good enough to dope 20-30mph inconsistent winds, but when the wind does cooperate, using these CDS dials is like cheating with these hunting rifles.

Hope that helps some.

Rick what happened?

IMO the Leupold line of scopes are fine for the average hunter/shooter... Once a guy starts to push the product failure is imminent... I used to be a Leupy guy at one time... Its what I learned on and used primarily... The leupys of old were solid but leupys as of late are lacking in all realms... I can not seem to keep a variable leupy together no matter the genera.... Tracking reliability, internal malfunctions/failures, reticle issues, ability to hold zero, etc... All makes, not just the VX... The tactical line appears to be no better...

I'm not a fan boy of any product/manufacturer... I am a fan of reliability, repeatability, robustness and a product that flat out works when called on... So far NightForce has done that... The things just work and work... Are they indestructible...Hell no they're not... I've had 2 failures thus far with them... One I dropped on the elevation turret and it locked up, the other just recently on a 2.5-10x32 compact that appeared to have moisture/condensation in the tube... This compact has been on 3 rifles... All 308's... the last rifle was/is a truck/atv rifle... Never comes inside, rides the truck or the atv, gets hosed off once or twice a year... This rifle has right at 8,000 rounds via that scope and I would guess the scope has seen 20-25,000 rounds total...

The only Leupold I have owned that has never went back to repair was a 10x M3 MK 4... I've owned 13 Leupy's that were all 30mm Tubes, variable and fixed in Vari-X III, VX-III and Mark 4 models... I now own one... a Fixed 10x MK 4...

I currently have 16 NF scopes with one on order and will purchase 2 more after the Mule deer hunts in January...I will continue to use NF until something comes along that does the job better...

IMO a VX-3 will only trump a NightForce in price... In all other areas there is NO comparison... You get what you pay for and I'll gladly pay the price for what I look for in an Optic... YMMV...

EHG.....Is the 2.5-10x32 your favorite on a hunting-weight rifle?? What reticle is your favorite for all/any hunting situation that may arise when hunting deer-size game??

ETA: Thanks for the insight. I'm even more tempted now.

2fiddy7... I wouldn't say my favorite but it does work extremely well... I've been changing over to the 42... The 32 is a great choice but I see the 42 catching more light and extending my shooting time... I'm a mil/mrad guy so I've been running the Mil-R reticle with mrad turrets as of late... I have that in both 32 and 42 compacts... I'm also a fan of the velocity reticle on rifles that are set where I want them and don't plan on changing... No bullshit dead on holds out to 600 ain't a bad thing... Again these are only on rifles that I will not change load, location, etc on... ie: 338-06 AI running 210 TTSX... The medium velocity matches this rifle perfect at my elev. and the load shoots so well I'll never change from it...

I've run the MOAR version and see no problems with them either... I've heard complaints of the reticle being to fine but have never experienced this personally...

I'm not a big fan of the illumination on the 42 yet... I dig the adj. parallax but am undecided on the push button illumination...

Now if NF would make a 4-16x42 FFP, zero stop elev, capped windage and old illumination with adj. parallax, I'd maybe have found my perfect scope for hunting...

Well..... Check PM's...... grin

Preach it! Is something in the works Formid?

I've used or seen used 10-12 VX3 with turrets, CDS/M1's, and dozens of Mk4 variables (which are functionally identical) in the last year from out of the box to at least 500 rounds. Around 15-20% were not functional out of the box. I.e.- unable to zero or adjustments so bad that they couldn't be used. Around 30-40% failed within 500-1,000 rounds. No abuse, just zeroing and shooting.


Pros of VX3-

1) Price
2) Weight


Cons of VX3-

1) High rate of loss of zero
2) High rate of incorrect adjustments
3) High rate of inability to return to zero





Pros of NF Compact-

1) Lowest failure rate in the business
2) One of the, if not the, most durable scopes made
3) Consistently near perfect adjustments
4) Untouchable zero retention
5) They just work


Cons of NF Compact-

1) Price





As EHG stated, Leupold Mark 4 fixed powers are excellent scopes. Unfortunately they are fixed high power MOA/mil scopes priced well outside their competition. If Leupold would do what several entities have asked and build a variable with the construction and quality of the Mark 4 Fixed powers, they'd have something.




As far as glass goes, it's a non starter. First off, no ones eyes are as calibrated as they think they are. Second, brand bias and general emotions play WAY more into "evaluations" of glass than anyone will admit. Thirdly, every major company knows exactly how their competitors match up by measuring them. The differance a between quality glass is measured in nanometers and microns. Every single lens has a prescription and it is measured.

Manufacturers make a balance between contrast and resolution with every scopes. Contrast being the "pop" that you see when looking through really good glass, and resolution being the ability to resolve fine details. Contrast and resolution are constantly at odds with each other. To get one you give up the other to an extent. Nightforce historically has lacked the "pop" of other Alpha glass because they put more into resolution than into contrast. That's what you're hearing when people "complain" about NF glass. It's not that it's not excellent, it is, it's just that it doesn't have the visual "pop" that people look for when they don't know what they are looking at.

Having said that the 2.5-10x42mm and especially the ATACR and BEAST have world class glass that is as good as anyone's.

Where is that coming from? I've not read it. To my eyes the glass on the 42mm is excellent, much better than the VX3.

Have had two VX3's refuse to hold zero on my 300RUM....NF NSX 3.5-15 fixed the issue

Still run Leups on my 243's and varmint rigs but lost faith on the bigger stuff

I have read this foolishness a lot. The Nightforce glass is in a league above the Swarovski z5 glass, based on side by side comparisons.

I don't scrutinize over glass much, as long as its in the ballpark I call it good, but I've compared the NF 42mm head to head with the Zeiss HD5 (which is better than the VX3) and the NF gets the edge.

Hardy "Amen" from the 24HCF member in the back row!!! Include decent eye relief of about 3.7" to 4.0" (unlike the F1), a good reticle (subjective I know), sufficient tube length of 30mm diameter to mount on a long action, with reasonable mass and I'll be dancing in the aisles.

I've read some people complaining here on the fire about the NF image not stacking up against some of the competitors. I can only say that Clint's NF 2-10x42 has better glass than my 2-10 HD 5. My HD5 with the Rapid Z 600 was my preferred scope... Right up to the point it failed me... The LRHS is riding my .308 now. It works well. My only wishes are for a little coarser reticle and a bit less weight.

All things considered, I'm thinking the 2-10x42 NF might be the pinnacle of long range hunting scopes. NF reliability, reasonable weight given that reliability and great glass too. That's a hard combination to find at ANY price.

John

Could you explain these comment in more technical terms? Especially micron tolerances in optics, and the difference between contrast and resolution. What trade off parameter in manufacturing does this impact? Feel free to be technical, I teach this stuff at one of the largest material engineering schools in the country, and I am not clear on your point. Thanks.

This is very true regarding brand preference and I remember JB/MD citing a parallel story but using wine tasting connoisseurs. Folks see what they want to see to an extent and are constantly chasing barely measurable differences as evidenced right here in out own classified's section. When Swarovski comes out with a new bino, you can see the list starting to form with the sale of practically brand new SLC's, then SLC NEU's, SLC HD's, Swarovisions over standard EL's (they do have a different view, but the point being both are superb) and so forth.

I remember when Steiner first came out with their Predator lens coatings which have very high contrast with regard to " game colors". You didn't need any training or expertise to see the difference between those lense coating formulations and standard broad band coatings. They were the first bino's, to my knowledge, that were designed specifically for hunters and not birders. They also made a riflescope with the same coating technology and code named "inferred " coatings. The scopes were called Penetrator's and they used to have a promo video of a guy driving tent stakes with the scope and then remounting them on a rifle.

Here is an over exaggerated example of "contrast" with regard to what Steiner does with their game sensing lenses. Simply put, they tweak the coatings so that the colors red/brown are more pronounced than greens and blues. Resolution is simply how sharp the image is.

I just got this NF not too long ago. Very happy with it so far.

Uh Oh, what happened? This too has become my preferred hunting scope, love the Rapid Z-600 reticle and the 300 m parallax setting, but your report suggests its failure rate may be a problem.

WRT glass quality/performance in a big game hunting sight, I don't stress too much about it either. Most glass is pretty good these days. IMO, a 0-600 yard capable reticle, adequate eye-relief, ability to hold zero over time/travel/recoil, and appropriate parallax calibration/adjustment are more important.

Let's see a pic through the scope

Just having to send things in for repair. Even though it comes back fixed, a guy shouldn't have to do that. I have had one particular product line from Leupold that seems to want to return home frequently; the VX3's and Variable Mark 4's with the 30mm tubes. The Mark 4 M5 A2 is simply the best scope I or anyone I know has ever seen, on the other hand.

I realize that all scopes break or fail regardless of the brand, but the 30mm tube offerings from Leupold seem to be prone to this for some reason.

My VX2's have never been back to Leupold and function flawlessly. I've actually used them in Tac Matches, constantly dialing too.

I will add that since you can buy 2 and a half VX3's for the cost of one of the Nightforce scopes in question, I'd go Leupold.

Outstanding information, which provides a lot of insight. The last NXS 5.5-22x56 I bought, a friend and I put side by side with his S&B. Both of us were surprised the NXS allowed us to read the writing on paper targets at 100 and 200 yards, which the S&B did not at identical magnifications.

To the OP, I've had both. The VXIII is lighter and less expensive. The NF is better in every other aspect and dramatically more so.

The only Leupold I still own is a fixed 4x on a 22.

Can you say Confused? Lol - after ALL that praise on NF,after much Leupy praise with JG, RC has to throw that in there

Seriously, all VERY good info, it reinforces my confidence in NF should I acquire the funds, but by there, yes a 4-16 on the same platform might just be the straw that breaks my wallet...

As to my mention of mixed reviews on NF glass, I simply googled said scope model in question, and read many reviews on various sites. Some were so disappointed overall they sold or returned the scope for refund, others happy or on the fence to be determined.

I can GET what Contrast is, former Swaro had great contrast, no issues with Rez either. I like both, but can understand perhaps it's a balancing act. In Bino's you want contrast as you are looking at colors, shadows, game, yet you need Rez too which you seem to get both in the alpha line of Leica and Swaro - to my eyes.

That brings up another point, individual eyesight, age of those eyes affect use of exit pupil as we know, and overall simply expectations.

If I pay 3 fold for a product - I darned sure expect to be very impressed, which is why I wanted to open this thread. It IS conceiveable that early production of ANY new product causes a mfg. to quickly assess any issues and correct. Could that have been the case in the launch of this new NF? Perhaps. If so was it due to glass specs....or assembly line issues, I have no clue. Again, not enough info to know.

All the above feedback to me gives a good sampling of info on both models. Thankfully, one always has a lifetime warranty on Leupold if/when things do go wrong. That is no justification for any shortcuts in quality, but is nice to know it is backing your invested dollars....

Btw, about that M3 MK 4 10x, anyone compare that to an S&B 10x?

The best warranty and customer service is to engineer it right, build it right, and quality check it before it goes out the door so that it does not have to go back. A lifetime warranty is worthless if you are on the hunt of a lifetime, or the deer of your dreams.

I still have my very first NF, which is the one that bounces between new rifles to check them, has been bounced around for years on more rounds and rifles than I can count, and has been hunting through temps over 100F+ to -25F and everything in between. It was retrofitted with a zero stop and reticle change, other than that, I've never sent a scope back to NF for anything.

Leupold, no comment, other than I've bought my last one. Every time I decide to try them again, I end up kicking myself and end up buying another NF to replace it.

fwiw on usage, My scopes are zeroed for 100 yards, and I dial elevation for almost every shot, so that I can hold dead on, and then I hold for wind and lead as needed.

I'll be the first to admit that if I start having trouble with the VX's, I'll try something else. I'm not the least bit interested in 2.5-3lb hunting scopes though in any case. I'm also one of those who thinks a guy should get whatever he wants to get, for any reason he wants. Matters not to me. I will say though I'm always skeptical of all these Leupy failure threads, primarily because I've used them off and on for over 40 years, much more so lately, and due to the fact that I've had probably 80 or so hunters show up in muley camp, aoudad camp, whitetail camp, or antelope camp with various rifles topped with Leupy scopes, and not one of them has had any failures. Many of these guys can afford anything they want and hunt all over the world. I make it a point to ask each and every one of them, every time about their equipment. Now I'm not going to say it can't and won't happen, but IME I haven't seen it yet.

You have to separate the tactical use with regular hunting use though to decide what you want. I also do not like schitttt hanging off my reticles for hunting, when a regular duplex or #4 will do 98% of anything you want to do in the field.

Maybe they should package the VX-3's with one free return authorization ticket as it seems likely that they'll need to tighten up all the internal parts that they miss with their first trip through the "quality control" line.......... For whatever reason, Leupold seems to get a pass on schitty quality control from their loyal fan base whereas most other brands get a rant thread with a solemn promise to never purchase another product from said company.

Interesting...

http://nightforceoptics.com/shv/3-10x42

And for you FFP guys:

http://nightforceoptics.com/atacr/4-16x42-f1

That would be the perfect hunting scope if they'd:

1) Get rid of the side focus (just not needed on a 10X hunting scope)

2) Put a decent hunting reticle in it like a German #4. The MOAR is cute for range work, I have one in a 8-32 NXS, but it's far too fine for a hunting rifle and overly complicated.

3) Get rid of the illumination, it's a gimmick in a hunting scope and not needed if you've got a good bold reticle like a German #4

4) Knock about 6 oz. off of it which actually is probably doable if you get rid of the side focus and illumination, at least they could probably get close.

I'm actually a big nightforce fan, all scopes should be built as reliably as they are. They're moving in the right direction in the hunting market but still need to figure out how to shave some weight without sacrificing reliability and get rid of some useless features while retaining the important stuff like zero stops, etc. They need to go talk to the Krauts about how to make a proper hunting reticle for low light instead of the illuminated christmas tree stuff.

My google research has only been able to turn up a single thread at SH with a bad review, and it was only one person in the thread. There is not much "smoke" out there.

You need to look through one for yourself. You will not be disappointed. Eurooptics has a return policy which I have discussed with them. They have no problem with you taking the scope out of the box, looking through it, and sending it back if you are not satisfied (as long as it hasn't been mounted). Nothing stopping you.

No comparison... S&B is more scope than the MK 4 could ever be... Matching reticle and turrets, Glass quality, Robustness, Tracking and return to zero all go the S&B...

The MK 4 with its MOA turret allows quicker adjustment for longer range shooting but lacks the precision being its 1 MOA per click... Glass quality is par for the Leupy Genera... Adjustments are not as crisp... Lack of reticle/turret match is problematic for some... Side parallax is touchy... I do like the TMR reticle vs the MilDot... Its a great optic but has its place...

I've not had a bad Leupie, ever. But then again, I don't dial, ever.

No zero stop. No decent hunting reticle. Side focus on a 10X scope. 20.8 ozs.

I'm for making it illegal to build a scope with a elevation turret without a zero stop.



I like the feature set on this one but holy cow!!!, 30 ozs?

A friend has a 5-25 ATACR and the glass is great, I'm sure this is the same.

It looks like a great scope but at almost 2 lbs. that rules it out for any hunting rifle use for me. The lack of good hunting reticles still remains.

That�s getting there. If they offered that scope with the Velocity reticles, I�ll buy.

Lack of zero stop doesn�t bother me with covered turrets.

Didn't see anything about turrets...it mentions capped adjustments!

I'm in the camp that a ZS is a must have, the new SHV if as reliable as the majority of NF scopes could be very interesting!

The ATACR is tempting.Smaller package but weighs the same as a 3.5-15x50 NXS that I use a lot currently. Reticle choices are fine for me. I'd have no use for a German 4 in a scope like that.

The SHV is a major improvement, yet still a disappointment.

CH,

I used one of these a bit this season.

1. Focus is required at 10x. It cannot be left at one setting that will work at 50 yards, 100, 150, 200, and 300, and work equally well at all, not to mention potential parallax issues.

2. MOAR - It has 1 MOA hash marks. What is complicated about that? It ties for my favorite with the NP-R1.

The IHR reticle is pretty simple, although I prefer to have some information in the reticle to allow for holding elevation, wind, and lead, if needed.

3. Illumination - not sure why you think it is a gimmick. Illumination is a feature that I find very helpful and tend to use with some regularity in shooting feral pigs, which usually are black, and tend to come out in low light.

Here is the hair color, which at 100 - 200 yards in low light makes illumination helpful.

Interesting. Do you feel like because it has not been your exerience it is not so? Do you feel like the failure reports are fabricated? Or do you feel that the failure reports are accurate, but the cause of the failure is justifiable?

What do you make of RC's most recent experience? Skeptical?

I am confident you have not experienced a failure. Why then don't you return the love

I think we hear more about Leupolds going down because there are so many of them in circulation,so naturally we hear about it more.

But I don't think any of these "mid-price" variables are immune....I have seen Nikons, Swaro AV, Zeiss,and others in that $800 and under price range puke in one way or another. Have seen it so much, in fact, that I wince when I buy any of them.Some days I think a guy is better off with a Leupold fixed power than he is with any of the popular brands of variables in that price range.

Plus we have this huge cultural rift today....the average hunter does not shoot all that much.If the rifle sees 200-300 rounds a year that's a lot.So the gear does not see much use.

OTOH we have the avid shooter/hunters like guys on here who pound several thousand rounds a year down range....they are going to make the low price spreads puke on a consistent basis. When I was doing that volume of shooting, I broke several common variables, and 300-375 cal magnums ate those variables for lunch after not much shooting at all. It got to the point where i would buy a Leupold variable and after round count hit 500-600 rounds, I'd just sell it off and buy a new one,whether it worked or not.

And ALL my scope problems started when I started using variables....before that I used fixed powers and there were no "problems".

We did not have things like NF back then, but I understand why guys are drawn to them and the more the annual round count reaches into the thousands, the more likely they are to use them.

Bob, you're spot on.

A good rule of thumb is that if a hunter shoots factory ammo they are much more likely not to experience a failure. Simply not enough rounds down range. I believe they still experience slight zero shifts, but it is not considered a failure.

There's a reason I've switched to aperture sights. I'm sure they aren't as tough as a NF, but they'll get me through...

That's a fair question. I mean no offense or disrespect to anyone when I said that. I was/am specifically referring to the non turret spinning or casual CDS spinning hunter/user. Since I've seen what I've seen and described previously with my own, and my hunter's Leupy's, I believe there could be any number of reason's for a "failure". For instance, there are lots and lots of "hunters" who are clueless about scope mounting, and parallax.

My lone scope failure was with a SwaroA, during a hunt. Should I therefore say from here on out that the SwaroA Z3 is POS?

Like I say, when I start having failures with them, and my hunter's start having failures with them, then I would rethink my position. I can't tell you the number of head of big game I've seen killed, or killed myself with a Leupy of some sort over the past 40 years......probably 250 or so, and if including hogs would probably be in the 400 range.

That being said, I have no doubt that they can and do fail, just like every other brand of scope out there, period. They all do, which is why they all have repair/return/CS facilities.

Silhouette shooters, both center fire and rimfire adjust the turrets all the time. Serious silhouette shooters shoot thousands of rounds in practice every season. This is an area where barrels get worn out, and the scope goes on the next barrel. By far the scope of choice is the Leupold. I have shot for over 20 years, and I see very few failures. Weight is a consideration due to rules, but cost has no bounds. If Leupold was a liability, then over 90% of the scopes would not be Leupold. I personally could care less about brand loyalty. This is what you see when you are around guys that shoot ammo by the case, not by the box.

This is a great observation that makes me wonder if knob twisting AND recoil or rough handling are needed to create the failures. Relatively low recoil sillywet rifles probably see different treatment compared to rifles in tactical comp or combat. Or riding on an ATV or getting beat-on in rough environments and terrain.

Good info guys. Re reviews I read on NF glass, I googled this particular model and found several scrolling thru pages of hits on various forums.

Very good discussion and feedback by all.

Bobin no doubt a 6x w say M1 might rate real high in low failure rates
Scott - irons are perhaps the gold standard till like you say, we move to steel scopes. Wait, wasn't that tried before... Lol.

I agree on comment about the difference in Tactical vs Hunting application.
Also about reticle choice and scope weight for hunting rifles. I recall toting an 8lb sans glass 338-06 in my younger years wishing I had used something lighter than the 4200 1.5-6 - believe was 15-16 oz.

Ironic or causal that we see lighter rifles yet often heavier scopes -
Keeping total package in line?

Again - Appreciate all input. Nice rifle above w S&B 10x

Getting the 1st paycheck and a car might be a better option vs Nightforce.... Just sayin.

Gotta say I appreciate Rick coming clean with his Leupo failures. I know he's been successful with them but his honest feedback supports what others have been stating.

I've been looking for one of those scopes with the optional Firefly reticle and I wanted to know what your thoughts were about the scope as far as eye relief. Any problem with that scope due to mileage or extended use ?

That's a logical conclusion however, I don't know if the brand Leupold sells more scopes than the others. IIRC, I saw a post several years ago here that was titled something to the effect about most popular equipment list by the numbers. I don't remember who did the survey but it included scopes, bino's, rifles etc etc. I believe it was one of the Jap scope brands that was the number one seller by shear volume alone.

Stoney, no NF in my near future, even if I wanted one.

RD, it was a good optic, but I did fine with a VX-III 2.5-8x36 on a Texas hunt and a 6x42 for most other hunts. No issues with ER on 4200. Like and use a 3200 3-10x40 compact on my T3 and my son's 270 has a 4200 3-9x40. Both seem about identical to my eyes, very good.

Check out the new HD Ziess conquest w/zero stop Cliff.

RD: Well yeah maybe but there's a shidt load of Leupolds out there is my point.

Yep, and a large variety of models being retro'd with turrets.

NF is just getting into a "lower" end option, it'll be interesting to see how their reputation holds up in the future.

I agree Bob. Wasn't trying to be a contrary guy, just saying that there are an awful lot of broken scope (code worded customer service sometimes) compared to all the other brands combined. Perhaps more to your point, there are very few reports of Leupold's fixed power scopes going down and if there are any more Leupold's in my future, they will be fixed powers for certain.

Over the years, I've spoken with Matt and Dave of Hill Country Rifles several times regarding Leupolds QC. The boys at HCR see their share (and then some) of Leupolds, and have noted that over the past several years, the QC has indeed taken a hit.

And the deterioration has nothing to do with the number of popped primers, nor fiddling with turrets. New scopes straight out of the box having issues. Canted reticles, parallax issues, erectors not tracking, not holding zero, etc.

I highly doubt the "lower" end NF scope will be any less of a product than their current product... Although the SHV is not built to NXS specs of the 2 I have, I have not experienced a single problem...

The 5-20 SHV I have sits on a 6.5 SLR and has right at about 1700 rounds under it... The Substensions on the MOAR have proved to be accurate and dialing out to 1360 yds with the capped turret has not been a problem with a perfect RTZ each time...

The 4-14 SHV was on a 6x47 Improved (6/222 Rem Mag AI)and has seen about 3500 rounds... I recently put a 2.5-10x42 on it so the SHV was moved to a 223 Vanilla... Between now and the first of the year it will see about 2K rounds as we'll hit the P-Dog towns before the snow/cold drives them down in the holes...

As soon as I get my hands on a 3-10x42 SHV I'll throw it on a high count rifle and put it through the paces and see how it performs... I would think it will be no different than what I have become accustomed to with the NF product... If not I will speak up...

I can't seem to find this SHV 2-10 for sale anywhere...are they new?

yes....I'm sure Alex Roy has em at Euro Optic

NF just released the announcement yesterday...

elkhunter: Oohhh.....OK guess we gotta wait. Thanks


RD: Just saw your post. I will check on line.

Not till sometime during 1st quarter 2015 according to NF contact...

Sorry Bob, I must have been thinking about the 4-14. Just saw the scope listed at Euro-Optic for around a grand. Also noticed the weight of 27 ounces. Does anyone know if this is a USA assembled scope or a Light Optical product ?

OK guys thank you.

I don't know how these compare to the Nightforce, but so far everyone who has one is reporting good results.

[u][color:#000099]Bushnell Long Range Hunting Scope[/color][/u]

All NightForce scopes are USA assembled... The SHV's are marked Made in Japan... This is due to the country of origin for it's core components... All of the final assembly and quality assurance testing is conducted at their factory in Idaho...

As for the LRHS... Its a nice scope and I've had a few... With that said I found a few things that I disliked on it and will replace them all as well... It should be a great scope for the casual hunter/shooter as is the Leupold...

What didn't you care for sire ?

My sniper contact likes the Bushy HDMR version.

Isn't that the short 34mm version that Formy always speaks highly of Jim ? The Budhnell LRHS is better suited for a hunting rig due to it's extra length to make mounting easier on long action rifles. Formy also states that it is holding up quite well and I belive it is quite a bit lighter than the pure tactical version. It was designed more for hunters.

I'm not sure. I've only seen a grand total of one, sitting on top of a T3 tactical.

Note sure if you're trying to be cute, sarcastic or just plain stupid but I will consider the source...

For one the windage turret zero reset lands on just either side of zero and IMO seems cheesy for a lack of a better technical term... It is capped so failure there would be limited...

The elevation turret zero reset can only be set to every other click... The turret and brass mating piece have 50 teeth, and with only 50 teeth, only every other click can be indexed... the turret has 0.1 mrad per click and 10 mrad per complete turn for a total of 100 clicks... This could have been better thought out before release of the product IMO...

I had one unit that the sunshade when unscrewed would turn the objective lens piece which if not given care would expose the lens and the scope tube internals (?)... This turned out to be a chingered thread on the sunshade...

This same scope died after 550 rds of 223... The elevation turret locked up and would not rotate... It was returned to the provider and replaced...

Everything else with the scope seemed fine... Glass, tracking, reticle, etc... Just not the scope for me... Ive had 3 of them... Two well used scopes went to individuals that loved them locally and one safe queen was sold... I no longer own one...

As far as the Bushnell HDMR version, I have used one and had no problems with it but would not own one either...

YMMV...

Isn't that the short 34mm version that Formy always speaks highly of Jim ? The Budhnell LRHS is better suited for a hunting rig due to it's extra length to make mounting easier on long action rifles. Formy also states that it is holding up quite well and I belive it is quite a bit lighter than the pure tactical version. It was designed more for hunters.