Home Forums Birds & Dogs Hunting Dogs Versatile Dog training references?

HOW TO HELP GUN DOGS TRAIN THEMSELVES, TAKING ADVANTAGE OF EARLY CONDITIONED LEARNING by Joan Bailey
and
THE TRAINING AND CARE OF THE VERSATILE HUNTING DOG by Edward Bailey and Sigbot Winterheld, North American Versatile Hunting Dog Association (NAVHDA)
These two will help tremendously.
Use the crate diligently. This is the method we use and it flat works.
No scratched doors.
http://coveyrun.net/pages/gsp_owners_guide/potty_training.html
Bird insticts will come with proper breeding, manners will ONLY come with proper training.

Doc- I'm pretty sure if I got her in a room or puppies of any breed we'd come one with one! That's a great suggestion! The good news, the breed she wants (pudelpointer) and the one I want (deutsch drathaar) are very similar. Either way, I just want a bird dog to work and chase feathers with.

The dog will be crated. We did that with our last and it was a much better experience.

For most sporting dogs, their first 2 years of life equals 25 years in human years so there eagerness to be trained the first two years is time that should never be wasted.

Most sporting breeds require 20 repetitions to grasp a training concept and most trainers "STOP" at that point thinking the training concept is now learned....NOT. This is the point where you take the understanding of the task being trained with repetition to a LEARNED
response by the dog.

The negative side is if the wrong concept is taught it takes a minimum of 40 or more repetitions to "un-train"...YOUR training MISTAKE.

Doc

Spot on. We went from this.





To THIS in what seems like no time at all. It's MY belief that more time should be spent training the OWNER. NOT the dog.

When you start looking for a pup, don't rule out the Wachtelhund. I have three of my own. I know of a litter that is due around Christmas.

The Wachtelhund looks like a very neat breed!! I hadn't heard of them before. Only downside for me is I'm leaning heavily towards a pointing breed. That's not set in stone and thanks for the suggestion. I'll let you know if I need the contact info.

This may come off as an AH, but I really give 0 Fs anymore. Don't hang out on the Fire anymore.......but either breed you listed is much more than a simple Craigslist ad. There is a ton of commitment that come with either dog. Testing and travel is not mandatory, but STRONGLY encouraged. And both dogs, if they are worth a half cup of piss, can be hard to handle AT TIMES. They are Machines. The Germans have the systems in place and breeding restrictions to create MACHINES. Every dog in the US has been bred down and dumbed down into a PET. Any true "working dog" or Euro dog bred for a task and not to be a pet is a MACHINE. Look at any Malinios, Rott, even the Earth Dogs like the Dachs are vastly different.

The potential for killing all the cats in the county is High. Chicken coops...High. Skunks, Possums, Pets.....High. It's what they do. Running and hunting every chance the door opens? High.

I've read your stuff for many years and do not think you're an AH. Just think hard about what you really NEED and WANT in the dog. And how much MACHINE can you deal with.

My dog is simply AWESOME. Not because he's mine. Simply because he is. So are the rest of them. PM me if you have questions. May take a while for me to check in . But I asked a question on 7WSM brass sources, so I will look back a few times in the near future.

Additionally, you could expect a wait list. YOU will most likely be interviewed. I've heard of people being turned down and refused dogs. Do NOT expect to choose your dog. High probability it would be chosen for you.

Just a few of many things that I've experienced that really blew me back.....as it's not the Typical way American's do things or how we expect things to play out. Should be obvious I hold the breed(s) pretty close to my heart. A simple look at the Laborador Retriever paints a clear picture of why I do not want the Drahthaar to become any more popular than it already is. Keeping them quiet and under the radar so to speak is what will keep them tough, high drive, and well bred. You simply cannot buy one and breed it as a Back Yard breeder because "I want a pup outta Ol'Joe...he was such a nice dog". The parameters to make it to Breed Status is staggering.

Laughing, ...FormFollowsFunction, ...and agree w/ ZeroFucks given.
Fanged a Bird or Two...

Jesse- Thanks for the pics and perspective! Though I've never really lived/trained one I've been around my pard's and dad's Drathaars quite a bit hunting and just having them in camp. As you say, when coming from good stock they are machines! Funny that you mention cats. The two I've been around the most have not problem corning and making cats into multiple pieces.

That said, one thing that has really impressed me about their 3 dogs is the difference between them when in the field and around home/camp. They have a switch and seem like totally different dogs in the two different settings. This would be a new adventure for me, but lots of hand wringing and thought we used to come to this conclusion. That said, what I think and what is reality may or may not match. But, I'm thinking that either of the two breeds could be a fit for me. The plan is to start calling kennels/breeders in an ever widening circle after the first of the year and see about getting on some puppy lists. I do not foresee being able to get a dog until the summer at the earliest judging from what you posted, my pards told me (he's having to wait for a second litter as they didn't have enough in the most recent litter for him to get one), and reading of various breeders websites. I fully anticipate being interviewed and hope that I am no to proud to admit that these breeds may not be for me after going through that process.

PS- Thanks for not thinking I'm an asshat!

Tyler

Though an old thread, just thought I'd give it a bump. I've tracked down and gotten 3 of the training books suggested. Thank you guys for those references! I've started to employ the methods on my kids...and it's working!

Secondly, I've gotten on two lists for breeders that are close enough I can drive an pick up/out the dog. Both are part of and active with the Pudelpointer Breeders Alliance. One just had a breeding, but won't take deposits until the ultrasound results are back. Though my preference if for a female, it appears there may not be any available from this litter as many are spoken for by other breeders in the alliance. It's a very well respected pairing and the 3rd breeding for these two. Though it'll make housebreaking a bit more troublesome, they are due to be whelped at Xmas time. Can't think of a better gift for two boys!

Second breeder won't be breeding until spring, so if this one doesn't work out, I'm first on his list.

Getting pretty excited to start this adventure!