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Campfire Kahuna
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Considering buying one and have two questions.

First, can you fire standard .45 acp loads down the .460 barrel ?

And can you use your .45 acp reloading dies to reload .460 Roland cases ?


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From what I understand yes in both cases. You might want to go out to the Rowland web site as they have many answers to your questions.

http://460rowland.com/


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Campfire Kahuna
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Thanks DD I'll check it out.


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yes
yes


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Campfire Kahuna
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Thanks! Might have a to buy me a Christmas present from me this week!

I've got an old Custom Springfield 1911 that I shot ISPC with for years that just sets in the safe. After seeing my buddies Conversion, I thought it would be cool to install one on my old race gun.
And with the longer barrel and compensator installed, it will be nice if I can also shoot the 45acp ammo and leave the .460 Conversion Kit on the pistol, since I have a truckload of 45acp ammo and brass, also. It ought to also be a hog hammering machine too with the .460 Roland Ammo.


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You might want to check out the you tube videos on the .460 Rowland. Somebody had one of a sub machine gun is .460 Rowland and holy smokes.


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I had a Clark conversion with comp I used on my Sig 1911 and it shot great. Played hell on deer


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Quote from Rowland website: "In order to prevent our high-pressure round from being chambering and fired from guns that may not be up to the task, the .460 Rowland�s shell casing is 1/16 of an inch longer than a standard .45 ACP cartridge. Due to their identical overall length, however, an Authentic .460 Rowland Conversion will reliably feed and fire standard .45 ACP cartridges from standard .45 ACP magazines; just like the .357 Magnum feeds and fires the .38 Special� only bigger� much bigger."
If the 460 Rowland case is 1/16" longer than a 45 ACP, I do not see how a 45 ACP would fire in a Rowland chamber because the case headspaces on the rim of the case. Perhaps the ACP case sitting 1/16th of an inch deeper in the Rowland chamber can still be reached by the firing pin?
The other issue is the heavier recoil spring required in the Rowland conversion. Will the slide still cycle fully with a lighter recoil impulse of a 45 ACP considering the heavier spring and the greater mass of the compensator?
Any information about the carbine referred to on the website?
I have a 460 Rowland Clark 1911 conversion as well as a Mec Tec carbine. Both are great but I have never tried a 45 ACP round in either firearm. With a 230 grain flat point lead bullet, I chronographed 1370 fps from the sidearm with AA7 loads from Accurate provided reloading data.

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Rowland is not as critical as Clark. Clark says not to try to fire .45ACP ammo in a .460 barrel, because since the round head spaces on the mouth of the case, instead of the rim (rimless cartridges). This makes the relationship much different than that between a .44 Special/.44 mag or .36 Special/.357 mag. As mentioned, the .45 might not even fire if the extractor doesn't hold the cartridge in place. Even if it does fire, performance might be spotty.

As to the reloading dies, yes, .45ACP dies, as well as primers and bullets, will work for the Rowland. I have a Springfield Mi Spec with a Clark conversion barrel that works very well, shoots accurately. Most I've pushed a hand load to so far is a 200 XTP to 1340 fps, and there is a lot more to go.

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I had the same question...since the .45 ACP headspaces on the case mouth how can a .45 ACP be safely fired in a Roland chamber. This would be like trying to shoot a 9mm in a 9x23 Winchester chamber.

Anyone here shoot a .45 Super? Same size case as the ACP but thicker brass.

Bob


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Supposedly the overall cartridge length is the same for the .45ACP and the .460 Rowland. However, I just looked at the Hodgdon reloading site and it shows the .460 Rowland being .070 overall longer than the .45ACP. So I don't know about interchangeability.


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Originally Posted by RJM
I had the same question...since the .45 ACP headspaces on the case mouth how can a .45 ACP be safely fired in a Roland chamber. This would be like trying to shoot a 9mm in a 9x23 Winchester chamber.

Anyone here shoot a .45 Super? Same size case as the ACP but thicker brass.

Bob



I shoot 45 Super and absolutely love it. A 185 at 1300. FPS + a 230 at 1100 FPS + and a 255 hard cast at 1075 to 1090 FPS. I shoot 45 ACP, 45 acp +P and 45 Super without a hitch and changes to my 1911 from one to the other.
I find that the 45 Super is a significant step up from a +P 45 ACP.



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Originally Posted by derby_dude
Supposedly the overall cartridge length is the same for the .45ACP and the .460 Rowland. However, I just looked at the Hodgdon reloading site and it shows the .460 Rowland being .070 overall longer than the .45ACP. So I don't know about interchangeability.



The 45 ACP, 45 Super and 460 have to be loaded to a cartridge over all length that will work through the magazine. From any practical stand point they are the same length and powder capacity.



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Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by derby_dude
Supposedly the overall cartridge length is the same for the .45ACP and the .460 Rowland. However, I just looked at the Hodgdon reloading site and it shows the .460 Rowland being .070 overall longer than the .45ACP. So I don't know about interchangeability.



The 45 ACP, 45 Super and 460 have to be loaded to a cartridge over all length that will work through the magazine. From any practical stand point they are the same length and powder capacity.


I know that's true but I wonder how they get the higher velocities if all things are equal.


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Originally Posted by derby_dude
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by derby_dude
Supposedly the overall cartridge length is the same for the .45ACP and the .460 Rowland. However, I just looked at the Hodgdon reloading site and it shows the .460 Rowland being .070 overall longer than the .45ACP. So I don't know about interchangeability.



The 45 ACP, 45 Super and 460 have to be loaded to a cartridge over all length that will work through the magazine. From any practical stand point they are the same length and powder capacity.


I know that's true but I wonder how they get the higher velocities if all things are equal.
.

All things are not equal, to get more velocity is very simple. Just add a bit more powder which increases pressure thus increasing velocity. This is not brain surgery.

Just because length and capacity are basically equal it is als obvious that pressures are not equal.



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As pointed out, the Rowland cartridge CASE is a bit longer. Overall loaded length is the same, so .45ACP magazines can be used with Rowland ammo as well as reloading dies. The ACP will chamber in the Rowland, because it is shorter, Rowland will not fit in an ACP chamber.

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Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by derby_dude
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by derby_dude
Supposedly the overall cartridge length is the same for the .45ACP and the .460 Rowland. However, I just looked at the Hodgdon reloading site and it shows the .460 Rowland being .070 overall longer than the .45ACP. So I don't know about interchangeability.



The 45 ACP, 45 Super and 460 have to be loaded to a cartridge over all length that will work through the magazine. From any practical stand point they are the same length and powder capacity.


I know that's true but I wonder how they get the higher velocities if all things are equal.
.

All things are not equal, to get more velocity is very simple. Just add a bit more powder which increases pressure thus increasing velocity. This is not brain surgery.

Just because length and capacity are basically equal it is als obvious that pressures are not equal.


Thanks, but it is brain surgery for me, just like political philosophy and history is brain surgery for most on here.

So, while the overall length might be the same the oversize cases contain just a smidgen more powder thereby increasing pressure and velocity. Okay I think I have now.


Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous

"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude


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Mike: Thanks for the extractor explanation

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DerbyDude, the powder capacity for for all cases is basically the same. It is like up the charge in a 30-06 case and increases the pressure from the SAAMI max of 60,000 psi to 55 or 70 thousand psi this will crease the velocity.

Derby Dude the only reason the Rowland case is longer is to prevent clambering in unaltered pistols. If the Rowland case can be shortened to 45 ACP length and the same power loads can still be assembled.

Last edited by jwp475; 12/22/14.


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