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I'd absolutely go Medium (Regular)... get the stays bent to your back and get some real weight in it, and I'll bet its fit will be about perfect (ie, the load lifters will be at the correct angle, 30-45* above your shoulders).

**You really can't know fit well without getting the stays bent to your back and getting 25+ lbs in the pack**

I use Large (Tall) Bora with my 22" torso and it fits to perfection, whilst I fell in-between the old Dana Design sizing.

Load lifters are one of the most misunderstood items on an internal frame and are absolutely critical to a comfortable ride with heavy loads.

That pack absolutely doesn't fit you and looks like a bummer to carry.

But you're one stout dude!

I'd never win an arm-wrestling comp with you!

I survived, but I'm shopping now!

I see a LOT of people on various hunting/backpacking sites with packs that fit like that, that think their packs fit them. You obviously know better!

Pack fit is a very personal thing and what works for one may not work for you. Doesn't make it wrong just means it doesn't fit your preferences or needs.

I have tried several packs from Osprey, Arcteryx, and Lowe. In fact in 1997 I scraped my pennies together to buy a Arcteryx Bora 80. Great pack for backpacking and hauled several caribou out with it during high school. That said it does not compare to Mystery Ranch NICE 6500, Barney's, Kifaru Bikini or Duplex, Stone Glacier, or Paradox packs when it comes time to haul meat off the mountain.

For me the Kifaru seems to fit my body the best so thats what I go with now, but they are a spendy SOB no doubt, but given that I haul out a dozen or so animals out of the woods annually its worth the money for the comfort.

However you might luck out and a less expesnive pack might be just what you need. The Exo or Paradox can cost less as well as weigh less, but I'd rather have a 7 pound pack that hauls well than a 4 pound pack that doesn't fit me quite as well or isn't quite as comfy when the pack is loaded down heavy. If you can get a 4 pound pack that hauls well for you all the better!

Certainly blessed to have so many options. I was negative 10 years or so when Brad started backpacking and value his input certainly. Realize I am soley basing my opinion on only roughly 10 years of backpack hunting and helping haul nearly 100 animals out of the woods in that time frame which I will admit is not nearly as many on here so my expereince is limited and just throwing in my .02

Actually the Osprey Vector series are excellent packs in my opinion. I have one in the basement, have used it regularly and loaned it out a fair amount. However, IMO, and based on feedback from others that have used both (borrowed from me) the Paradox carries a lot better

I actually really like the Osprey Aether 85, likely my favorite OTC backpack, for general backpacking. But it is lacking when you load it up over 85 pounds or so....the frame just isn't stout enough, but I like the way the waistbelt fits.

I would certainly pick the Paradox over any of the OTC backpacks for hauling real weight and as a bonus the Paradox weighs less than nearly all "heavy hauler" expedition packs you could buy at REI and the like.

True, but only to a point. There are certain fundamentals that don't change. One is load lifters that actually are functional, not those laying flat accross one's shoulders or, worse yet, at a negative angle.



Somehow I go the impression he was after an internal. No internal carries weight like an external, and a NICE is just a gussied up external.

Kevin, I'd love to see your packs in person, I haven't been able to so far. Just based on what I can see on your website they certainly look promising to me. Problem is, when I've gone to your site I can't enlarge any of the details on the packs and frames sufficiently to see what they are... I click on the pics, and the enlarge only slightly, but in no way large enough to make an informed purchase. Is there a way to change that?

I agree Brad, the NICE frame as a stand alone is a terrible design the only thing that saves it is the load lifter extensions on the 6500 and 7500.

I didn't see anywhere on this thread the mention of strictly an internal except what you posted so if I missed that than the OP should be writing off the Paradox, Stone Glacier (except for their new Hybrid pack that just released), Kifaru (except for the Timberline series, Mystery Ranch (except for the grizzly or Kodiak whatever its called), and for sure Barney's.

However I have found that these sort of internal/externals carry heavy loads better than true internal frames. But everyone is different and I certainly understand that.

No he absolutely didn't state a preference for an internal... I'm agreeing with you! I got that wrong. Somehow I got that lodged in my noggin, likely based on this statement: "My desire is for volume to haul camp in, lightweight, compresses down nicely for day pack (hunting)."

As to individual preferences, it's undoubtedly true to a point. But I am amazed that you don't like the Bora, yet somehow like the Aether. My experience is so completely opposite I'm a bit baffled. If there ever was a crummier, more flexible frame for a pack than the Aether, I've not experienced it! I found it uncomfortable (and sagging), to the point of painful at 35lbs, let alone 85 lbs. Yet the Bora has been great for me up to 100 lbs.

Still, I'd generally take a external over an internal... but only if its one on the list you made, or is a Dana Terraframe. The Dana external is in a class all by itself, and remains, to me, the very pinnacle of external design.

But the stuff on Kevin's site looks pretty promising to me...

Brad
You can send me an email and I can look at the specific photos and see if I can get larger ones. It's hard to tell, if it is in the site, in the cart etc.

Smaller images load faster, so I would prefer to have larger images elsewhere not on main sites if possible

Thanks Kevin... PS, you are the designer/manufacturer of the packs, yes? Or is there a site to see other, larger photos of them?

We design, manufacture, sell

I can get bigger photos placed some where, but need to know which ones

The next time I'm in Helena I hope to have time to look at them at Capital. What all does Ed_T usually have on-hand?

Right now I have two Evolutions, one in hauler mode, the other with a 6300 coyote bag, plus several Talons, Gun Hooks and a BCS 2 shelter.

I'd like to see some pics of that Paradox pack compressed way down in day pack mode and hear from some guy that hunt with either a re curve or long bow to see if it inhibits their shooting form
Tim

Appreciate all the inputs. Learning something new everyday. As for internal vs. external frame, I really have no preference. Whatever best facilitates the scenario I laid out earlier. I wish I had access to all these packs to try on with some weight in them.

prm, you live in Colorado right? I've got a Duplex Kifaru you can try out if you'd like to.

I packed out 4 elk this year, one bull with a Stone Glacier 7400, and 3 cows with the Kifaru Duplex / Highcamp 4800 combo. Both packs were awesome hauling meat, but I prefer the Kifaru thus far.

Though I don't have nearly the experience that Brad does, I would have to disagree with his statement about the state of packs being in a bad way. At least to me, it seems like there are quite a few really solid offerings out there that haul and don't weigh much. The Paradox series, Exo, Kifaru, and Stone Glacier, in addition to the internals that Brad talked about, are all damn good.

Tanner, appreciate the offer. I grew up in CO, SW of Denver ~40 min and had the Pike Nat'l forest as my back yard. I went to CU Boulder (that was interesting...), but after a decade+ of riding around in jets flying off ships I now live outside DC in Northern Virginia. This place is seriously lacking in hard core outdoor equipment stores. A career change that takes me back west is definitely on my radar.