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I loaned my current backpack to my brother in law and he really likes it. I think I'll let him keep it. Least I can do for all his support bringing horses for our hunt this year. Now I am looking for what to get. I was able to get all my stuff for a backcountry hunt into mine which is 4800ci with an additional 3500ci bag attached for the trip in. My desire is for volume to haul camp in, lightweight, compresses down nicely for day pack (hunting) use and good capability hauling up to ~100lbs of meat/hide/rack.





I am really interested in the Paradox, but looking at the website they have the Unaweep and the Evolution. Which is better for elk hunting and why? I don't think I need the freighter pack option. My first guess is a Unaweep, 4800, side zipper. Thinking I would add the dual Talon. Sound reasonable?

Also looked at the Stone Glacier or Kifaru. Lot more coin, what's it going to do that I can't with the Paradox?

My 4800 Unaweep with side zip and Hydro Talon comes in at 3 lb 1 oz in the Cuben fabric, I still have an Evolution but I brlueve the Unaweep will do it all for me.

Perfect, thanks Ed T. One of your stoves will be part of my load. Love that thing!

At first I thought that was a J.O.B., a little messy but I will pass you!

I really want to like the Paradox. In fact, I like almost everything about it and if 95% of my hunting wasn't with a bow I would own one. Quiet matters at 25yds.

I still might get one for my annual elk/rifle hunt.

The 4800 Unaweep is on my radar. How noisy is it?

Vendor, User , Designer , whatever I will give a pretty unbiased answer, or try at least.

In really cold weather , Cuben is noisy as are most XPAC materials. The soft hand Coyote VX21 is not bad at all IMO. I've been out skiing 3 days in a row, with a 4800 Unaweep , Coyote / Side Zip in tow and I have not been like wow it's noisy and I don't think I have been in a temp above 15 F. As a plus the soft hand coyote is a little lighter than a standard vx21.

If noise matters, the Coyote VX21 is pretty good IMO, especially in the cold. Obviously , sub freezing and bow hunting are not really in the same environment. Above freezing, I think most (Cuben , any XPAC ) are fine when worn. Perhaps not a quite as a soft fleece or wool when struck by a branch but no louder than a Cordura IMO or not much louder.

In summary, at least as a user, above freezing, none are much different than Cordura , below freezing some get real loud, and some (Coyote) do not.

As for sizing / style from a user perspective. I gravitate to the Unaweep 4800 Side Zip a lot. I have a Cuben 3900 no zip, I have Evo's etc but IMO , the EVO with a talon only is not large enough for off season / winter stuff on it's own. With a pack bag, they are both about the same, except the Unaweep is lighter. The side zip is handy for day access and thus the 4800 gets the call even on day skiing trips when a small little pack is just not enough.

Packing animals, I packed 4 with the Unaweep this year. The Evo allows you to use the load shelf which is a positive, but in my cases, I either put it in the pack bag or compressed it between the bag and talon and got camp on the next load, or put camp outside the pack and meat inside. I stuck the unaweep bag in the washer, no detergent and ran it and stuck it in the sun and it looks like new.

Everyone has their own style and what they prefer. For me, I end up gravitating to a certain setup most of the time.
Kevin

Kevin, you mention the Coyote being quiet. You do have the grey in the same material? Coyote is the brown color right?

What you describe for hauling meat is what I envision. I just put the meat bag in a trash bag and slide it in the pack for the trip and then remove from the trash bag to hang.

Another thing that has bothered me the last couple years is that my old pack would extend above my shoulders enough to make working through branches more difficult (noisier) than desired. All the elk I find are in really thick stuff. How far does the Unaweep with a 4800 extend upwards? Have a picture? This would be while hunting and thus the pack nearly empty and cinched down.

Also, on another note, I have a BCS Tipi, and would really like to upgrade to the BCS 2 with two doors. Can an original BCS be modified?

Thank you Kevin.

Good info Kevin.
Especially regarding the different materials at different temperatures.
Thanks

I'm going to get festive here in a few and cook up some Elk for friends, so anything else will be later this week

BCS can not be modified to a BCS 2 sorry.

You an use extensions on extending above shoulders. I am 6'1 and a 24 inch frame is fine but for big loads above 60 a 26 inch is better. If you are 5'7" obviously a 24 may be sort of big in relation to branches. This is where the EVO has an advantage, you can trim the frame to 23 or 22.5 if you wish for non load hauling and be ok.

Gray is "technically" the same, but not soft hand. Different finishing method on the fabric. FWIW , I anticipate having a lighter gray that is a bit more quite at some point, but I am not 100 percent sure at the moment.

Coyote is the brown. There are photos in the shopping cart. It is almost exactly the same as the "Redwood Brown" tents. It is not the Tan .. which there are a few photos floating around of. Of topic, the Tan is not a bad pack fabric in it's own right, but just wasn't popular enough. It's not great for rock climbing / scree / talus , but not that much is that is lightweight.

I am very happy with my Paradox Evo. Cut 5lbs of weight from my old crewcab.

5lbs.

Put lots of miles on the pack this year, hauled out 2 elk with a partner and have packed camp a couple times as well.
I opted for a 4800 bag and base talon, both in vx42.
The bag was a bit noisy at -18, same for the snow, shell mittens, and gaiters. Not noticeable in milder weather for a rifle hunter.
Not a factor for me at all where/how I hunt, YMMV.
I have hauled some huge drybags with the Evo and talon, the flexibility to do so is nice and was the reason I chose the Evo over the Unaweep.
Well worth the money for a VERY light system.

Appreciate it. Happy New Year!

I got the Seek Outside Evolution with the 3900 bag, the talon with space inside, and the lid which adds A LOT of space. On summer hunts I can drop the bag and just use the lid and talon for gear. The 3900 bag seems pretty huge to me - I can't see why anyone would need more space. But we do not put meat in the bag either. We use game bags and tuck the meat under the talon (see photo).

And it carries heavy loads really well. I carried a couple of deer and a couple of elk this past fall. One of my loads was in the 160 pound range (for only a 1/2 mile or so thank god).

The Evolution is a really good pack and I've used a lot of different packs. I've used everything from a Bullpak (really BAD suspension but strong), a Kifaru Longhunter hauler (great suspension but fell apart), to a Granite Gear Stratus (amazing pack but heavy), and even a few others but those were the last 3.

I'd go for the evolution over the unaweep for the added versatility.

I am trying to attach a photo of me with an elk front quarter in the pack. In the photo I've dropped the bag - just the lid and talon on the pack. I took out a hindquarter and my gear in the bag on the first load. This photo was taken at the end of the second trip - hence the rack on the other pack (an adapted unaweep).

prm, forget the "hunting packs" and go direct to those that got it right first.

Get a 90's Dana Terraplane or Astralplane.

Get a 90's Osprey Vector Silhouette or Xenith (I like the early 2000's Crescent's in 75 liters or less too).

Get a 2000's Arcteryx Bora 80 or 95.

That's about all you need to know about comfortable packs with 100 lbs... but the truth is, "comfort" is relative at 100 lbs.

Kifaru makes a nice pack too, but I can't fathom spending that kind of coin when you can pick up an Arcteryx Bora 80 on ebay for around $250 that will be as or more comfortable.

Aside, the pack in your photo isn't something I'd be interested in carrying... too squatty and fat with the weight to far away from your core... just my observation. And the Stone Glacier I tried felt like a brick on my back.

Thanks Brad, I'm always open to ideas. Lots of very good reviews on the Bora 80. Why did they stop making it? Or, I should ask what did they replace it with in their lineup and why is it not as good? Yes, the pack pictured above did have the weight a bit too far back. Although, the bag attached to the back was mostly bulky but light items such as Mtn House meals. One of my issues was the way the built in scabbard allowed the main bag to pull away from the frame a couple inches. I believe they changed that in later versions though by changing the attachment point of the horizontal compression straps.

My intended use is to haul camp in about 6mi from 8,000' to 10,500' at a total weight of ~50lbs. Then hunting with it only carrying an MRE, game bags, knife(s), water, snacks, small medical kit and possibly rain pants. For that I want it as compressed as possible for moving through the thick timber. Then, if all goes well, hauling out ~230-250lbs of deboned meat and the rack in three trips. Four if I bring the hide out too. That's about all I'm comfortable carrying any meaningful distance at 10,000'+ and countless deadfalls.

Take a look at the Exo packs they look kind of interesting
Tim

I have a Bora 65 it is a great pack but it has seen better days. I also love my Dana Bomb pack although it is a little beefy.

PRM, arcteryx, like most of the pack makers, have given into the obsession of grams over comfort and have trended to lighter packs. Lighter packs are good to a point, but most just don't carry truly heavy weight like a pack with a bomber, adjustable suspension. Adjustability is paramount in an internal. That genuinely means they need to come in multiple sizes. One-size-fits-all, generally means about half or more aren't fit by it.

Get your torso measured and start looking for a Bora 80. It's about the most comfortable hauling pack I've ever used. Beefy, shapable aluminum stays, and the brilliant "outrigger stays" pioneered by Dana. No internal used for carrying truly heavy loads should be without those IMO.

The state of packs today is depressing. You can find light, but it's difficult to find comfortable. I've been trying at least one, new. light pack every year for backpacking, and I haven't found one yet as comfortable as my heavier packs.

I'm not going to quit just yet, and will likely try a ULA Catalyst, and the new Exped Thunder 70 for this year's summer backpacking, but they'll not be going hunting come fall. I'll either use my Bora 80 or Crescent 75.

My torso is ~18.5". Puts me in the top of the short or bottom of the regular sizes for the Bora 80. 5' 8" tall and 170lbs. Thinking a short would be preferred. Nothing seems to fit me exactly.

I'd absolutely go Medium (Regular)... get the stays bent to your back and get some real weight in it, and I'll bet its fit will be about perfect (ie, the load lifters will be at the correct angle, 30-45* above your shoulders).

**You really can't know fit well without getting the stays bent to your back and getting 25+ lbs in the pack**

I use Large (Tall) Bora with my 22" torso and it fits to perfection, whilst I fell in-between the old Dana Design sizing.

Load lifters are one of the most misunderstood items on an internal frame and are absolutely critical to a comfortable ride with heavy loads.

That pack absolutely doesn't fit you and looks like a bummer to carry.

But you're one stout dude!

I'd never win an arm-wrestling comp with you!

I survived, but I'm shopping now!

I see a LOT of people on various hunting/backpacking sites with packs that fit like that, that think their packs fit them. You obviously know better!

Pack fit is a very personal thing and what works for one may not work for you. Doesn't make it wrong just means it doesn't fit your preferences or needs.

I have tried several packs from Osprey, Arcteryx, and Lowe. In fact in 1997 I scraped my pennies together to buy a Arcteryx Bora 80. Great pack for backpacking and hauled several caribou out with it during high school. That said it does not compare to Mystery Ranch NICE 6500, Barney's, Kifaru Bikini or Duplex, Stone Glacier, or Paradox packs when it comes time to haul meat off the mountain.

For me the Kifaru seems to fit my body the best so thats what I go with now, but they are a spendy SOB no doubt, but given that I haul out a dozen or so animals out of the woods annually its worth the money for the comfort.

However you might luck out and a less expesnive pack might be just what you need. The Exo or Paradox can cost less as well as weigh less, but I'd rather have a 7 pound pack that hauls well than a 4 pound pack that doesn't fit me quite as well or isn't quite as comfy when the pack is loaded down heavy. If you can get a 4 pound pack that hauls well for you all the better!

Certainly blessed to have so many options. I was negative 10 years or so when Brad started backpacking and value his input certainly. Realize I am soley basing my opinion on only roughly 10 years of backpack hunting and helping haul nearly 100 animals out of the woods in that time frame which I will admit is not nearly as many on here so my expereince is limited and just throwing in my .02

Actually the Osprey Vector series are excellent packs in my opinion. I have one in the basement, have used it regularly and loaned it out a fair amount. However, IMO, and based on feedback from others that have used both (borrowed from me) the Paradox carries a lot better

I actually really like the Osprey Aether 85, likely my favorite OTC backpack, for general backpacking. But it is lacking when you load it up over 85 pounds or so....the frame just isn't stout enough, but I like the way the waistbelt fits.

I would certainly pick the Paradox over any of the OTC backpacks for hauling real weight and as a bonus the Paradox weighs less than nearly all "heavy hauler" expedition packs you could buy at REI and the like.

True, but only to a point. There are certain fundamentals that don't change. One is load lifters that actually are functional, not those laying flat accross one's shoulders or, worse yet, at a negative angle.



Somehow I go the impression he was after an internal. No internal carries weight like an external, and a NICE is just a gussied up external.

Kevin, I'd love to see your packs in person, I haven't been able to so far. Just based on what I can see on your website they certainly look promising to me. Problem is, when I've gone to your site I can't enlarge any of the details on the packs and frames sufficiently to see what they are... I click on the pics, and the enlarge only slightly, but in no way large enough to make an informed purchase. Is there a way to change that?

I agree Brad, the NICE frame as a stand alone is a terrible design the only thing that saves it is the load lifter extensions on the 6500 and 7500.

I didn't see anywhere on this thread the mention of strictly an internal except what you posted so if I missed that than the OP should be writing off the Paradox, Stone Glacier (except for their new Hybrid pack that just released), Kifaru (except for the Timberline series, Mystery Ranch (except for the grizzly or Kodiak whatever its called), and for sure Barney's.

However I have found that these sort of internal/externals carry heavy loads better than true internal frames. But everyone is different and I certainly understand that.

No he absolutely didn't state a preference for an internal... I'm agreeing with you! I got that wrong. Somehow I got that lodged in my noggin, likely based on this statement: "My desire is for volume to haul camp in, lightweight, compresses down nicely for day pack (hunting)."

As to individual preferences, it's undoubtedly true to a point. But I am amazed that you don't like the Bora, yet somehow like the Aether. My experience is so completely opposite I'm a bit baffled. If there ever was a crummier, more flexible frame for a pack than the Aether, I've not experienced it! I found it uncomfortable (and sagging), to the point of painful at 35lbs, let alone 85 lbs. Yet the Bora has been great for me up to 100 lbs.

Still, I'd generally take a external over an internal... but only if its one on the list you made, or is a Dana Terraframe. The Dana external is in a class all by itself, and remains, to me, the very pinnacle of external design.

But the stuff on Kevin's site looks pretty promising to me...

Brad
You can send me an email and I can look at the specific photos and see if I can get larger ones. It's hard to tell, if it is in the site, in the cart etc.

Smaller images load faster, so I would prefer to have larger images elsewhere not on main sites if possible

Thanks Kevin... PS, you are the designer/manufacturer of the packs, yes? Or is there a site to see other, larger photos of them?

We design, manufacture, sell

I can get bigger photos placed some where, but need to know which ones

The next time I'm in Helena I hope to have time to look at them at Capital. What all does Ed_T usually have on-hand?

Right now I have two Evolutions, one in hauler mode, the other with a 6300 coyote bag, plus several Talons, Gun Hooks and a BCS 2 shelter.

I'd like to see some pics of that Paradox pack compressed way down in day pack mode and hear from some guy that hunt with either a re curve or long bow to see if it inhibits their shooting form
Tim

Appreciate all the inputs. Learning something new everyday. As for internal vs. external frame, I really have no preference. Whatever best facilitates the scenario I laid out earlier. I wish I had access to all these packs to try on with some weight in them.

prm, you live in Colorado right? I've got a Duplex Kifaru you can try out if you'd like to.

I packed out 4 elk this year, one bull with a Stone Glacier 7400, and 3 cows with the Kifaru Duplex / Highcamp 4800 combo. Both packs were awesome hauling meat, but I prefer the Kifaru thus far.

Though I don't have nearly the experience that Brad does, I would have to disagree with his statement about the state of packs being in a bad way. At least to me, it seems like there are quite a few really solid offerings out there that haul and don't weigh much. The Paradox series, Exo, Kifaru, and Stone Glacier, in addition to the internals that Brad talked about, are all damn good.

Tanner, appreciate the offer. I grew up in CO, SW of Denver ~40 min and had the Pike Nat'l forest as my back yard. I went to CU Boulder (that was interesting...), but after a decade+ of riding around in jets flying off ships I now live outside DC in Northern Virginia. This place is seriously lacking in hard core outdoor equipment stores. A career change that takes me back west is definitely on my radar.

FWIW, I am loving my stone glacier, and it is the first internal I've used for anything other than backpacking. I've attempted to use a Dana Terraplane, MR, Osprey Aether (I think? Its been a while and I dismissed it pretty quick). None of them were ever as comfortable as my Barney's external, so they never went hunting.

The SG kept weight closer to my back, and was much more comfortable for longer periods. I prefer it over the Barney's for carrying heavy loads in most cases. I've only used it to pack 3 sheep and one goat, but so far it is holding up well.

Man, I really feel for ya........

The parts are smaller than an elk or moose...:) I'd like to try to pack a moose hind quarter bone-in with the Terminus, but I have a feeling it would look really funny.

BTW, we have several pack items discounted to clear out

http://store.seekoutside.com/in-stock/

In stock and will ship next week , the discounted stuff is marked in Red

Taunting me I see...

Yes but no. We need to clear out a few items , we will be changing a few things up a little bit in the future. Not much, but a few less options, a bit more bundled.

Definitely intrigued. Shot you a PM with a question.

Brad,
If you had to walk in a mountaineering shop right now and buy a new pack, what would you pick?

Happy birthday Chip....

Thanks, OSD!

Chip, happy belated birthday!

To me, the pinnacle of packs was from the late 80's through the 1990's from makers like Dana, Osprey, Gregory, Mountainsmith, Lowe, etc. After that (and currently) the trend makers have been following is to try to make lighter packs with "fits-all" suspensions, in fewer sizes and "fixed" internal frames with non-removable, customizable stays. The trend is also away from beefy hipblets and harnesses, to lighter and thinner for both.

Makers took away options because it's cheaper, and training store staff to fit packs correctly was a nightmare.

Today there's very little to chose from in any backpackatorium for me. That's why I say the state of packs is so depressing.

Deuter makes a nice pack with removable stays. The better Deuter models use an X frame which makes it tougher to shape, but it can be done. However, their packs are only available in one-size. I'm not sure, but I think Lowe still offers removable stays, as do some of the European makers.

The reason I harp on stays being customizable is my back shape falls outside the pre-shaped frame form. I also have a 22" torso, so I'm too long in the torso for many (most) one-size packs.

All that leaves a guy like me buying older, used packs like those I listed. I wish I still had my Greogry from 1986. One of the most comfortable packs I've ever owned.

If you're of a shorter torso than me, and your back more closely matches the "fixed" frames offered, you have a lot more to chose from.

At my suggestion, a friend of mine recently switched from her Bora 75 to a ULA Catalyst. She had knee surgery and was trying to eliminate ounces everywhere. She absolutely loves the fit and comfort of the Catalyst. ULA offers multiple sizes and removeable, customizable stays. I'll likely get a Catalyst in size Large for a test this summer. I just wish they had a model with a top pocket.

I'll also try the Exped I mentioned.

Of the internal frame hunting packs out there, I still think the Kifaru is at the top. It's a genuine, old-school, customizable internal, with a good lumbar pad.

For externals, Kevin's offerings at Seekoutside have me very interested. EdT seems to like his.

I only strayed away from my Osprey Crescent on time this year, and that was to try an REI Yosemite 75. I got it because it was light, fit my torso, and had removeable stays. However, the pack turned out to have a thin, uncomfortable hipbelt. Had it had a beefier (heavier) belt, I'd have kept the pack.

Here's the REI Yosemite, and next to the ULA Catalyst:

The Crescent 75 on this year's hunt with right at 100 lbs:



The Bora 80 with around 100 lbs:

Thanks Brad!

I've read enough good reviews to give the Paradox a try. The compression system intrigues me as it would allow me to use an existing bag for camp attached for the hike in. Of course that is only if I can't get everything in the pack as-is. I do like the ability to pull the tent and stove out of that bag and then just set in the tent with all my food and clothes organized. With this pack I look to really try different adjustments to refine the fit. The light weight will be nice too if it fits well. Ha, compared to what I'm used to it will probably feel great!

I haven't done any backpacking since the 1970s - 1980s, but did quite a bit back then. I have an old Kelty Tioga external frame (frame only - the bag fell apart long ago) that I've used as a meat hauler since the '70s. I've been wanting to start backpack hunting again and have felt a pack that can pack in a camp, compress down to serve as a day pack, and haul elk quarters comfortably would suit all my needs.

I spent quite a bit of time researching hunting packs and settled on the Paradox Evo. I bought the frame and compression panel only, and a couple different size dry bags to get started. The first thing I did when it arrived was load 70 lbs on both the Paradox and the old Kelty and walked around a bit. The Paradox is more comfortable and handled the weight better for me. I haven't had a chance to use it hunting other than as a day pack thus far, but I'm confident I made the right choice...

too funny...that is probably a "normal" sentence for someone living in AK, not so for us down here who may shoot one sheep in 30-45 years

i was testing the fireproof quality of the vest.... need nomex as it is more fireproof than ballistc nylon. the gasoline bomb that i used for the test landed me in icu in Greeley with 3rd degree burns to my lower legs and 2 and 3 degree to my face, ears and neck... really stupid mistake guys. i was blessed not to have been injured worse and not destroyed my shop. will be back at it soon though.... greeley is a top notch facility and the people are wonderful! Angels everywhere Thank God!

posted it in the wrong topic... i am looped from the pain killers. sorry fellas

Good luck Wham, sorry to hear of your misfortune

Thank you sooo much Kevin. i pray that the Lord Blesses you and your family. Happy hunting/hiking!

Man, that's a bad burn! Sorry to hear of it. You get well for your wedding!

I have a Kifaru Longhunter (excellent pack) and another decent hauler pack but, I keep going back to my Eberlestock J34 for elk hunting. While the load lifters on this pack aren't as robust as those on my Kifaru, I have found that its adjustability well compensates for this shortcoming. It has the ability to compress down nicely to a larger day pack. I have used it now for the past 3 hunting seasons and I think it is a keeper.

Thanks Okanagan
i am in surgery monday for lower leg skin grafts
the face is nearly healed and will be fine.
kids, don't play with fire and gasoline.
and keep fire extinguishers everywhere..you can't have too many
the stop drop and roll thing i do not agree with
smothering the flames with a blanket though is a method that works

Chip, happy belated birthday!

To me, the pinnacle of packs was from the late 80's through the 1990's from makers like Dana, Osprey, Gregory, Mountainsmith, Lowe, etc. After that (and currently) the trend makers have been following is to try to make lighter packs with "fits-all" suspensions, in fewer sizes and "fixed" internal frames with non-removable, customizable stays. The trend is also away from beefy hipblets and harnesses, to lighter and thinner for both.

Makers took away options because it's cheaper, and training store staff to fit packs correctly was a nightmare.

Today there's very little to chose from in any backpackatorium for me. That's why I say the state of packs is so depressing.

Deuter makes a nice pack with removable stays. The better Deuter models use an X frame which makes it tougher to shape, but it can be done. However, their packs are only available in one-size. I'm not sure, but I think Lowe still offers removable stays, as do some of the European makers.

The reason I harp on stays being customizable is my back shape falls outside the pre-shaped frame form. I also have a 22" torso, so I'm too long in the torso for many (most) one-size packs.

All that leaves a guy like me buying older, used packs like those I listed. I wish I still had my Greogry from 1986. One of the most comfortable packs I've ever owned.

If you're of a shorter torso than me, and your back more closely matches the "fixed" frames offered, you have a lot more to chose from.

At my suggestion, a friend of mine recently switched from her Bora 75 to a ULA Catalyst. She had knee surgery and was trying to eliminate ounces everywhere. She absolutely loves the fit and comfort of the Catalyst. ULA offers multiple sizes and removeable, customizable stays. I'll likely get a Catalyst in size Large for a test this summer. I just wish they had a model with a top pocket.

I'll also try the Exped I mentioned.

Of the internal frame hunting packs out there, I still think the Kifaru is at the top. It's a genuine, old-school, customizable internal, with a good lumbar pad.

For externals, Kevin's offerings at Seekoutside have me very interested. EdT seems to like his.

I only strayed away from my Osprey Crescent on time this year, and that was to try an REI Yosemite 75. I got it because it was light, fit my torso, and had removeable stays. However, the pack turned out to have a thin, uncomfortable hipbelt. Had it had a beefier (heavier) belt, I'd have kept the pack.

Here's the REI Yosemite, and next to the ULA Catalyst:







[/quote\]

I tend to agree with Brad here, but, after owning two Kifaru packs, I much prefer my Mystery Ranch NICE rigs(2).

I also have three Dana Design frame packs and they fit me best.

We have changed a few of our pack offerings. Mainly , how products are offered, and some fabrics, and how they are categorized.

Here are the links , let me know if you have any questions
Lightweight Backpacks
Standard Use Backpacks
Rugged Use Lightweight Backpacks

It is important to note, the suspension is the same of all of these depending on platform (500D Cordura), just materials of Backpack Pack bags and Talons change.

Pricing is pretty similar, as to before, maybe changing a few dollars up or down depending. The amount of different fabrics is reduced.
Lightweight uses X21RC , the same as VX21 without the interior scrim so it has less interior abrasion resistance. Since this fabric is very light, we did away with Cuben fiber as an option. It is also more quiet as it is a softer fabric. A 210D face fabric is just far more durable than Cuben for a 2 ounce gain per pack really and it is far less expensive.
Standard uses VX21 Coyote Soft , which is more quiet and has been our most popular fabric. Both of the X21 fabrics work very well for most uses such as busting brush etc and should look new after many miles through timber and brush. However, for canyons / talus / scree VX42 is a better choice.
Rugged use is VX42 in a Light Gray , which is a very abrasion resistant material , great when rock abrasion is a concern.

Color options are really two (Coyote (VX21) and Light Gray (VX42 and X21RC))

We will likely do small runs of Orange Talons prior to hunting season , available as a separate purchase.

All Talons have the mesh back panel.

If you have any questions , let me know.

I also have three Dana Design frame packs and they fit me best.







above is a quote




me too the shortbed? love that one

3 skingraft done this morning

northern Colo. hospital/medical center is 5 star amazing!

Greeley Colorado. best hospital i have ever been to and i've been in a few....

tell them brian sent you





vote for Wham

Dude....

That really sucks. Hope you make a full recovery. Take care of yourself and get better. I really want to give you [bleep] about this, but you are not the first to do something stupid with gasoline, and I'm in that group too. Sounds like you are in good hands, and are counting your blessings - best of luck!

Brian,

Get well. I'll refrain from busting your chops until you recover.

i'm alive and kickin... God Bless you guys and i will be back working hopefully by Monday. 3 skin grafts and a lot of meds but i'm fine. Have a great day folks!!