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Campfire Kahuna
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I hear you, Se�or.

....just wish those clamp on magnifying lenses for em' were a bit easier to find. whistle

GTC



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-- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain





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Originally Posted by Kurt71
I use a Vernier Caliper and mic when I need a close tolerance. I just don't trust the digital caliper, just to much of a chance putting to much thump pressure on it and getting a false reading.
.


Agreed. For quick stuff it don't matter, but when it counts the vernier scale is the way to go. Same with weighing charges. If it's bulk pistol junk, no matter, but if we're going for group size the dump and electronics go away and the pacific balance scale comes out so You can watch it creep up.

Just ignore the other BACKGROUND NOISE on this thread. It's meaningless


"Words may show a man's wit, but actions his meaning"
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With a measure of the distance between extreme detents and sight radius (front to rear), one can work out some accurate and precise data for the sight in question at any desired range. Depending on mounting, one sight of the other could potentially be modified to help with it's effective range issue. Tang or barrel mount for the rear????

Last edited by 1minute; 01/03/15.

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Campfire Greenhorn
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Tang with a nice 36" between


"Words may show a man's wit, but actions his meaning"
B. Franklin
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Another couple questions just make certain we are absolutely clear: The numbers listed in the original post - are they listed top to bottom or bottom to top of the staff? Last, what is the distance between the lowest and highest detents on ones rear sight?

And to sustain the spirt of this thread, your mother wears combat boots.

Last edited by 1minute; 01/04/15.

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What are "detents" and why does it matter? Such sights are marked low to high, so you are at higher numbers as elevation is raised.

Your lowest point is wherever your rifle hits to point of aim, at the nearest distance you shoot. Maximum height is more critical, because it limits the maximum range you can get on to with the sight. That's why most makers offer low, medium, and high vernier sights.

FWIW, my 45-70 can easily get to 1000 yards with my midrange Hoke. I've shot it to 1500 with a long range vernier.

I honestly believe you guys are overthinking this, wanting to measure marks on your sight, and calculating values and movement.

I'm no hot shot or guru, but I've been fairly successful in BPCR competition. I concentrate on knowing my rifle, establishing sight settings empirically, meaning by actual shooting. In matches I establish a prevailing wind zero, then make most of my windage adjustments by feel, believe it or not. You don't have time to screw around with tables and calculations during a match, and you damned sure can't while hunting.

Just get out there and shoot, and keep good notes. Have fun!

Paul



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Yours truly on the line. All targets at that match were 1000 to 1540 yards. My long range Hoke. Note extreme windage setting, 44 minutes left to cope with the wind that day. Another shooter with what looks to be an extra tall Kelley sight on a Martini. Note that cheek contact is impossible.

Paul

[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]



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Campfire Kahuna
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Paul, your quiet, understated humility is very becoming. whistle

I do think we should all lay low and give the OP a chance to educate us on how this all REALLY works.

"You were right between that ram's legs , come up 3 banana leaves"

man, that last picture (the Martoony) is a HOOT !

GTC


Member, Clan of the Border Rats
-- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain





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Campfire Kahuna
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Detent ?

....what's a detent ?

GTC


Member, Clan of the Border Rats
-- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain





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Campfire Kahuna
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Quote
I honestly believe you guys are overthinking this, wanting to measure marks on your sight, and calculating values and movement.


Hey, you've seen the sights I build and some of the old clanked out veterans that I've rebuilt, Paul.

Whilst in the throes of "overthinking" I'd like to just lay out some real SIMPLE mojo here.

* one takes .150" and divides it into 5 increments (e.g. the "not .010" , more like .030" that our rocket scientist observed)....and lays that out on his fixed scale four times, we have .1.0000"
* one takes his movable scale (the vernier) and lays out five (maybe only four) stadia spaced at .025".
*one than hooks the movable scale / vernier to a 40 TPI lead screw, and VOILA,...

One full rev of the elevation knob gives one .100" ( a "point" ) of travel. That is why one gets so comfortable with crankin' those knobs (and wearing out their lead screws, gibs, and bushings.)

Now that we've got this out of the way, I'd like to say that having spotted for you a time or two, and having had the good fortune of having you spot for me, that you've just gotten to damn GOOD at this.

From here out, in fairness to us pikers and useless noisemakers, I think you should do all of your call outs in Arshins, or Cubits, or something that will get you back to actually thinking about alla' this.

Now GFY.

GTC


Member, Clan of the Border Rats
-- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain





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Well now I certainly doff my hat to you for your technical knowledge and your ability to build things, and especially to put new life into items that others might relegate to the junk pile or worse. So my comment about overthinking wasn't directed to you. Nor was it intended to discourage anybody from understanding their gear, including planning to acquire it. You really do need to understand how stuff works.

However, as to the actual shooting, that's where I find that you're better off getting a good feel for your equipment, and managing it accordingly. I'm not expressing myself as well as I'd like, but perhaps the analogy is driving a car, or maybe flying a plane. You do need to understand well the reference points, gauges and such, but you don't always have time to think about it.

At a local match last year a fellow had a nice rifle, and what looked to be an elaborate ballistics chart that he kept looking at. I won, and he was well down the list. Whatever.

At a match my basic sight settings for the targets on the course will be on a card taped to my stock. Measurements are stored somewhere deep in my memory bank.

Now, to put this in some perspective, I just relate what works best for me, admitting that I don't multitask well these days. Still, the KISS principle is well suited to shooting these fine old time rifles.

Paul



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Campfire Kahuna
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Quote
the KISS principle is well suited to shooting these fine old time rifles.


agreed,....now come up one cubit, and four banana leaves,...

Shade right, and watch the flags.

GTC


Member, Clan of the Border Rats
-- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain





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Simply put: With a measure of sight plain, a count of the increment markings (or detents) on his sight, and distance between the lowest and topmost marks on that same sight staff; one can do a ratio and proportion calculation and tell the original poster exactly what those values reflect in minutes, inches, miles, millimeters, zopbogs, or whatever units he/she might be interested in. In no way is it a complicated issue.

If the original poster wants to supply a little more ballistic info, we could indeed fabricate a scale on a piece of tape or metal that could be affixed to his staff and he could crank in zeros at any of his desired ranges. It was a simple question with an equally simple solution certainly not worthy of a pissing match.

Like his Pedersoli, my 45-90 has a 100 yd zero at a setting of approximately 31 minutes on its long range staff.

Have good one,


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