Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Canada Hunting in BC Canada? Please consider not booking

Dear fellow hunters,

I am a B.C. resident hunter and have been let down by my government. The GOABC (guide outfitters of B.C.) have succesfully lobbied the government of B.C. to dramatically increase their quota on certain species (big dollar animals) at the expense of the resident hunter. 40 % of sheep/grizzly and goat in the north have been allocated to the outfitters of the GOABC and up to 25 % of some other species. Considering that the average allotment to non residents in the USA and Canada is between 5-10 % this hurts. We are concerned about the future of hunting for our children when commerical interest takes precedent over the citizens interest. We can't match the financial contributions to the government that the GOABC makes and we don't have the ability to sway government policy in the same organized manner of a consortium, such as the GOABC. What we do have is thousands of betrayed hunters with fire in our belly.

What I ask of you, my American brothers is to ask yourself how would you feel or react if a decision was made such as this in your state? Would you sit idly by or would you do something about it? PLEASE, we respectfully ask, that you do not book any hunts with members of the GOABC at the Reno convention next week or at any other time until this issue is resolved to the satisfaction of the B.C. residents. Remember the Yukon has stones sheep as well. For those interested in a bighorn hunt Alberta offers excellent guided opportunities.

Any individuals that is a member of a local fish and game club we encourage you to share this information with your fellow hunters. Anyone that is interested on more information on this travesty please contact me via pm.

If you do happen to find yourself on a guided hunt in B.C. this year, have no fear, you will be welcomed by the B.C. resident hunter as hunter and friend with common shared interests and values, however the man sitting beside you on the horse may have a very frosty welcome from this hunter. We do look forward to resolving this issue so that all of us can enjoy the amazing wildlife resource BC has to offer.

Please take some time to educate yourself on this issue by visiting the huntingbc.ca site and reading the various threads. Also petitions have started here.

http://www.bcwf.bc.ca/
Petition - Wildlife allocation BC


Finally, the lawyers are following our efforts and I'm afraid they may engage us residents with litigious law suits. So hear is my disclaimer. All comments are opinion only and I make no claim to the accuracy or completeness of any facts or figures I have provided. As I said please educate yourself.

GOABC did indeed have their lawyers draft a letter to the huntingbc.ca website demanding that some posts be deleted and demanding the names and addresses of the posters that were giving strong opinions against GOABC.

http://auction.goabc.org/auctionlist.aspx


Is this what they plan on doing with all the extra allocations they plan on getting?

Where do the funds from those auctions go ? Conservation? Or donations to government?

Judging by the responses from our MLAs the funds go directly into campaign funds.

kayjayess:

OK I'll refrain from booking a guided hunt in Canada. I can't afford to book a guided hunt anywhere, so it's easy for me to comply with your request.

KC

Yep they've gone out of their way to shaft us locals. Until this decision is reversed I'll be giving advice for good guides out this way but they'll be in Alaska, Alberta and the Yukon. I can't support anything to do with the GOABC right now that's for sure.

GOABC is going to your MLAs and trying to have your hunting opportunities cut. They don�t want to see you out hunting. Pick up a pen, a paper and write your MLA and the Minister on Environment. Tell them you want change and tell them you want to be treated like a resident in your own Province. Ask for a response.

Change is coming � it�s up to you to make sure it benefits people who live in BC first.

You probably could afford to if it wasn't for the guide outfitters stranglehold on non-resident hunts. At least for non-resident Canadians we are allowed to hunter host them to hunt at a fairly nominal cost. I like how it is handled in Montana as it was explained to us by a fellow that lives there...that is what we need.

Why would a potential client not book a hunt in BC?
To what benefit to the potential client would that be?
As far as a foreign hunter is concerned its the best thing that has happened to them for a long time, more hunting opportunities for them, they dont give a [bleep] about resident hunters.

My hunting opportunities were reduced dramaticaly when someone decided to promote 20,000 new hunters in BC, to an estimated 100,000 resident hunters, reducing any chance for a leh to almost nil, brilliant. I hope the BCWF and GOABC kill each other then maybe the resident hunters in BC wont be pawns in what seems like a game.
Then both organizations have the gall to bitch and complain about native hunting.

Don't follow you 673 resident hunter numbers are growing and that's a bad thing? Families do have children ya know, I think its a great thing, as long as they stay out of my honey hole!

What I don't think is a great thing is the recent back room deal that gives a mere 250 and some business' around twice the going rate percentage wise of wildlife allocation compared to anywhere else in north America other than the very sparsley populated far north. With one hand shake and excluding any input from the 100,000 resident hunters and our federation, the BCWF. Its old school political patronage the GOABC are long time political supporters. Its stinks.

But, I don't think its going to fly anger is growing and more and more people are finding out the truth. The GO business has been operating for decades fine and well in BC. They don't need to steal resident quota. Curiously they just talked the government in to allowing foreign ownership of these business'. Could they be fluffing them up for a big score?

I look forward to the day that this is behind us and I'll gladly go back to recommending and referring BC GOs with pride but now right now.

BCWF has started a petition to urge the Government of B.C. to rescind their recent decision on Wildlife Allocation, which will result in lost hunting opportunities for our province's resident hunters.

The petition calls on the Government of B.C. to overturn the decision to change the Wildlife Harvest Allocation Policy which gives a larger share of hunting permits to BC guide outfitters and a smaller share of hunting permits to BC resident hunters.

The petition is available at the following link: Wildlife Harvest Allocation Policy Petition, and will be submitted to the B.C. Legislature.

Just signed the petition. I urge all BC hunters to do the same, as well as personally contacting their MLA. This is a classic sellout. Hunters are a politically right-leaning lot, and we helped to vote the current government in power --- and now they crap all over us.

I hunted in BC a few years ago. I found out later that the money the outfitter collected from us for our tags was NEVER used to buy tags. They only would have issued them to us had we KILLED something. Since we didn't they kept our money and never issued a license or tag. Left a bad taste in my mouth when I realized what had happened. Probably won't ever go back. Too bad they require a non-resident to be guided for everything.

That's unbelievable, glad you at least didn't get into trouble could have been bad for you. It isn't hard to do a google search and come up with a list of infractions by various outfitters.

Salty303
If hunter numbers grow in BC, how will that benefit me?

The BCWF must of known about the increase in the AAH for the GOABC, I knew what they were after 10 years ago, you guys should of put your ducks in a row along time ago.
I sympathize with the resident hunters, the individual hunters anyways, the government in BC is going to be hard to persuade now.

Well our work has paid off some the government is pulling its horns back and sending the deal back to the negotiating table as of a few hours ago.

http://www.theprovince.com/technolo...will+revisit+changes/10709927/story.html

Its a beginning but no time to let up.

There is more than just you or Salty or me in all this, the younger generation need us to put and end to this now.

gerrygoat
Agreed, once the genie is out of the bottle it wont be put back easily if at all.
Introducing new hunters to hunting is the responsibility of parents, not the BCWF or government who have a financial interest.
I never thought more hunters was good foe anything/anyone other than for monetary gain, same as the GOABC, and thats where the problem lies in my view, I also see alot bigger problems than the GOABC for BC hunters. I hope the deal gets kicked to the curb too to start things out on the right foot.

Well with respect 673 you have a selfish attitude an I don't agree with it at all. School, hospital, library use and hunting numbers will go up as population increases just like he sun will rise in the east. It will happen. I think its wise for the BCWF and local clubs to promote our way of life have a place for the newbees to land and learn the ropes. More hunters = better conservation and management. And it makes it less likely that crap like this allocation policy is attempted in the future. Its a big place there will always be places with no hunters. Just get out of the truck and go for a walk.

There used to be 150 000 hunters in BC.

20 000 new hunters isn't a bad thing. It's good for hunting overall.

And, it's not a real issue.

The real issue is foreigners being favoured over residents.

Well salty, if I seem selfish to you because I dont share your point of view then thats your right, your above post is what I would call an opinion from someone who is brainwashed.
The thinking that more hunters equals better conservation and management makes no sense, and is the result of necessity, do you think if there are 500,000 hunters it would be unreal management and conservation?
In fact your entire post about schools and hospitals etc, makes no sense.

The point is numbers of people will grow with time and all facilities will have to grow to serve them, there's no stopping it everybody knows it. Everyone knows that an excepts and plans for it. Just the same hunters numbers will grow you can't stop it so best plan and be prepared for it.

Conservation by habitat protection and improvement and scientific monitoring is funded by hunting licences. Hunters world wide pay for most of the conservation efforts that are done. More hunters gives more money for more conservation.

But you seem set in your ways so I'll just wish you good luck with it all. I'll be encouraging new hunters that come to our club.

I'll encourage new hunters too salty, as I meet them and they want to be a hunter, no problem, I help them out too. I guess I just represent the probably 30-40% of hunters in bc that dont subscribe too your point of view, and are not members of the BCWF, nor GOABC.
As for the GOABC allocation of game...I already said a number of times I dont agree with it.

http://www.straight.com/blogra/79910...uther-king-say

The GOABC, which represents about 210 outfitters, sells many of its permits to nonresidents who want to purchase guided hunts for big game. The BCWF, which claims 45,000 members, says a larger percentage of limited permits will now be shifting from resident hunters to commercial interests catering to foreigners, even though the number of domestic hunters has increased significantly in the past decade, up to more than 100,000 today. It says foreign trophy hunters during the same period declined about 30 percent, to only 4,500.

In the heat of this war of words came a notification, via Twitter, to the Straight of an interesting photo posted on the GOABC Facebook account. Purportedly taken at GOABC's annual convention in Kelowna, on April 29, 2013, it shows what appears to be five white males wearing black Afro-style fright wigs and is titled "The Jackson Five, all grown up".

For some unexplained reason, all the men are holding bananas.

According to posted photos, other "fun" impersonations involved people dressing as the rock band Kiss, ZZ Top, Tina Turner, and one of the Supremes, with GOABC executive director Scott Ellis dressing up as Prince.

Also according to the posted pics, two senior B.C. Liberal ministers�Pat Bell, then-minister of jobs, tourism and skills training, and Forests Minister Steve Thomson�were present at the convention. It is not stated whether the two were present for the dress-up skits presented as part of a "Gong Show".

"Nice" touch with the bananas, I can't imagine what they were thinking. This certainly won't help their public image even a little bit.

Hopefully it gets shared around and the media picks up on it...it really makes you wonder doesn't it.

The guide/outfitter allocations are a minor portion of the problems facing BC hunters. Over use of ATV's with the attendant degradation of habitat, increased road building for timber harvesting, over-harvesting of breeding animals, game management for and by groups who are primarily interested in reduction of game animals (Cattleman's association, Insurance corp. etc.), are all factors which are hurting hunting in B.C. and elsewhere. Our elk herds have been hurt more by poor management than by guide/outfitter allocations.
The northern portions of BC are facing the same problems of habitat destruction and too much access that have plagued the south. Pipeline companies and BC Hydro are not too concerned about game populations and their activities do nothing for the game. GD

All TOO bloody true, then the slaughter by the "entitled" due to our liberal, urban, Supreme Court and BC game populations are in deep trouble.

Still, it is time to put the GOABC on a short leash and limit foreign hunters to a maximum 10% of the AAH as is the policy in most of North America.

exactly

Exactly, one fight at a time, lets win this one first before we try and change the world.

Well said , nice to see your not drinking in all that Kool-Aid that BCWF is trying to sell.
There's still a mind set in BCWF that if there was no Guide Outfitters in BC there would be 60" moose , 200" mule deer and 40" sheep every were .
Yes I am a BCWF member but I don't agree with the direction there pushing this issue .

So you're in The GO business and you buy a BCWF membership? You'll never be in agreement with anything that supports resident hunter rights obviously.

Comparison of Non‐resident Allocation Other Jurisdictions

BC 40% Maximum
20% Minimum

Alta 7% (species dependent)
10% Maximum

Sask 4% (moose)
14% (white tailed deer)

Arizona 10% Maximum (legislated)

Montana 10% Maximum (legislated)

Nevada 10% sheep (legislated)

Oregon 5% most species

Washington 5% Maximum

Sorry to disappoint you Salty, I am not a G/O or in the G/O business. Have been a member of BCWF for over 30 years. Not all resident hunters in our wonderful province agree with the BCWF on how there handling this issue.

Our Oregon Hunters Association lobbied for a ballot initiative many years ago to restrict non residents to I believe 5% of our big game tags. Seemed like overkill to me, but the public voted. We are not a non-resident friendly state, and if I did not live here, I'd certainly spend my hunting dollars here.

Sounds like your every day resident sportsmen need to form an association and start lobbying. That 40% allocation does sound a bit heavy handed indeed.

Your obviously confused it's the GOABC that claims putting all of our game under LEH will enhance trophy opportunity, and they ARE lobbying to have that done also.

I find it hard to believe that your not some shill of theirs anyway with such an idiotic position.

The FACT is that, due to gross mismanagement of BC's resources and the corporate con-game being currently played to sucker the aboriginals into cooperation with the ripoff of our energy resources, we BCers, do NOT HAVE enough game for our own needs.

Last year was my 50th season, now crippled by an old, very severe injury, I still went out and hunted as is my absolute birthright. I did not shoot anything, don't mind as we three older folks don't require much "red" meat, but, I found VERY few tracks in an area of the Kootenays, where there were scores only a few seasons ago.

We NEED to completely revamp our hunting policies and I favour a total of 6% of ANY species for "non-resident alien" trophy collectors and 4% reserved for our fellow Canadians from other provinces. This, would total 10% for "non-residents" both Canadian and foreign and that is enough.

But, I think that $$$$$$ will win in the end........

t

As much as it would help me as a non-res BC hunter, I hope things turn in favor of BC resident hunter's favor. That would SUCK if Wyoming allocated 40% of bighorn tags to non-residents only.

Hunting is becoming a rich man's game. Sad deal but it is reality.

CS
Please re read GreyDog Post ,do you not think that he has not hit the nail on the head < other than the out of control Frist Nation hunting>

Just because I don't agree with your idiotic position does not automatic mean that I am a guide outfitter .

I have done many hunts with GOABC members. I will do many more I'm sure. As far as how I feel about it being done in my own state, it is. I never could draw a good area to hunt brown bear on Kodiak, but a nonresident could if they paid their money. Good for them, bad for me. That's how it's been for quite a while now. I pay my money and hunt BC. I have many good friends that are GOABC members. I'm there to hunt, not get involved with allocation. In fact, that's the last thing I should be involved with as it should be decided locally without my input.

As a nonresident hunter, my concern is about the one animal I'm there to hunt. If the moose allocation is 1000 or 10, it doesn't matter to me as long as I get one of them. I don't have anything to do with those making decisions. To think I would skip hunting in BC because of how BC is allocating tags is a bit of a stretch. If I don't go, it's not as if that tag won't be used or go back to a resident. Someone else will pay the money and use it.

It's not that I'm not sympathetic to the locals, but this decision is being made in BC by BC residents. The GOABC members I hunt with are all BC residents as well. I'll hunt what I'm allowed to hunt. I won't have hurt feelings when my tags are reduced and won't be any extra happy when they are increased. I'm there to hunt while I can. When I can't, I'll be hunting somewhere else.

It's not that I'm not sympathetic to the locals, but this decision is being made in BC by BC residents. The GOABC members I hunt with are all BC residents as well. I'll hunt what I'm allowed to hunt. I won't have hurt feelings when my tags are reduced and won't be any extra happy when they are increased. I'm there to hunt while I can. When I can't, I'll be hunting somewhere else.

Kodiakisland
The BC residents who are making this decision are making a unilateral decision without consulting anyone else other than the handful of government minions, also in my view the the GOABC you speak of in many cases are foreigners too and were not born here.

sjr
Please re read GreyDog Post ,do you not think that he has not hit the nail on the head < other than the out of control Frist Nation hunting>

I think that this decision suiting the GOABC is the very reason 1st nation hunters have a constitutional right to hunt, (priority allocation) whether it is abused or not is erelavent. They have been hunting here for thousands of years without issue, and with several thousand native hunters in BC as compared to the upwards of 100,000 resident hunters in BC its like the pot calling the kettle black.
The issue here is "controlable" game management, which is so bad I dont know where I would start..... foreigners having an unbalanced proportion of tags for monetary gain, while the resident hunters are left to have the crumbs.
There is no way the government should be in control of game management, it should be in the hands of competant biologists who are not paid directly through government and are independant of government.

Actually, quite a number of the GOABC members are NOT BC people, there are Americans, Germans and other foreigners involved as "Owners" of GO outfits and they have NOT behaved with integrity or appropriate respect for we who OWN BC/Canada....."what goes around, comes around" in life.....

This, will make foreign hunting here "better" in the short term and some foreigners will laugh and take advantage of the situation, however, it is already motivating comments by BC residents on local hunting forums and in the media about just banning foreign hunting completely.

After the next provincial election, when the current opposition party will very probably form government, I expect a major effort by citizens here to permanently end all foreign hunting and this is quite likely to happen.

The "wild card" here is the aboriginal problem and IF the BCWF and the aboriginals are onside on this, the days of the GOABC and other GOs are numbered.

I consider the GOABC's position on allocation and other resident-related issues to be very shortsighted and even self destructive in the longer term.

The outfitters I hunt with are BC residents. As are the guides. If there are many foreigners who own hunting areas, maybe BC residents should address that if it is an issue.

Again, as a nonresident hunter, I'm interested in my one tag. Not how a state or province decides to allocate them. There will never be any plan that everyone agrees on. I do think BC residents should act if they feel what is happening is unfair or out of line, but it will not change my plans on whether I book a hunt or not.

The original post and thread title is consider not booking a hunt in BC if you are an American. There are a lot of things I consider before hunting anywhere far from home, but allocation is not one of them. This is a local issue that should be handled locally. I see no reason for an American boycott of BC hunts. When I book a hunt, my money goes to the BC government and BC residents. Legally.

It is simply an effort by some BCers to seek support among US trophy collectors, as some hunters here tend to see all North American hunters as members of some rather nebulous fraternity.....

I am not quite so sanguine about how many Americans, tend to view Canada and our enormous resource wealth, so, I am not very optimistic about gaining large scale support from US people wishing to hunt here.

In more direct response to your comments, we ARE involved in changing the policies in respect of foreign investment in our hunting/angling businesses, but, it takes time.....the day WILL come when zero foreign involvement will be standard legal practice here.

However, there is a LARGE, well-financed and highly vocal anti-hunting segment of our resident population and MANY of these ARE American expatriots as well as German and British immigrants....we MUST proceed carefully in order NOT to have our efforts to protect OUR hunting become useful to them in their agenda.

Your hunt money MAY well go to a foreign operator as they are more numerous in BC than many seem to realize.....but, I suspect that all foreign hunting here is doomed and so do a number of BC guides, etc., whom I know.

So, all in all, the request to Americans to refrain from booking hunts here was/is a reasonable and potentially very helpful one.

Its your personal decision to make all good. As a BC resident hunter I'd like as many as possible to know about the issue and they too can make their mind up. But as posted further back the back room deal huge allocation increase to the GOABC has been halted, the government now says they got it wrong and have ordered a renegotiating of this with resident hunters represented at the table. Hopefully this will all be behind us before long.

I had no issue with GreyDogs post, it's the post from someone who claims to be a resident hunter that has no issue with the GOABC reaping 40% of the grizzly bear allocation, and 25% of moose allocations. Your either a guide, an outfitter, or a resident with deep pockets that can just buy your hunts each year.

I don't fault you for that position...there is nothing wrong with coming here and hunting legally. IF you decided to forgo a hunt in BC for one in the Yukon, or other Canadian province in support of the BC resident hunters fight over allocation, I'd have great respect for that decision also.

To be clear, I'm not trying to argue or disagree with any of the opinions of the BC residents. I'm sure I would feel the same. In fact, it always chapped my backside that I couldn't get drawn for a Kodiak bear hunt when any nonresident could pay their money and come up. In the US, there are 50 states with 50 different ways of allocating hunting resources. Some are easy for nonresidents to hunt in, some aren't. I'm sure there's not one state that everyone is happy in.

I give my opinions as an actual nonresident BC hunter. I don't make it up every year, but some years I'm there both spring and fall. My perspective is not as a bystander, but someone who is affected by this as well. It is important to me that the GOs I hunt with are BC residents. Some of them are hunting the same area their father or even grandfather hunted as a GO before them. My hunts now are probably as much a social thing as an actual hunt.

In my opinion, me boycotting BC accomplishes one thing, me not hunting in BC. Those tags will go to some other nonresident if not me. If they go unused, I don't know that will have any affect on allocations. If it does get them reduced, that accomplishes less hunting opportunity for me. Either way, that's less hunting for me. If the end result is less hunting for me either way, why would I purposefully set out a couple of years?

I'm not against anything the BC residents are trying to do to gain more access to their land. I understand it. At the same time, I will continue to hunt there with long time BC friends as long as I can.

Yes, I think that we all get that, you and many other Yanks, are sympathetic, BUT, you are going to do what YOU want, first and foremost.

That, is pretty much what I have learned to expect, growing up on a world famous "trophy" fishing lake and then working in BC resource management agencies.

The problem NOW is that many BC citizens, non-hunters and hunters are largely opposed to ALL foreign trophy collecting and when they read, as they do and will, attitudes such as yours, well, WHY even allow you to come here is the reaction......

I understand YOUR point of view,but, I really see NO reason to continue to host those with such attitudes....see how it works?

That's fine. It's clear your goal is no nonresident hunters anyway. You have more to do with the decision than I do. You live there. Currently it is legal for me to come hunt there so I will. When it's not I won't. No worries.

There is little doubt that we are going to end up with more and more species on a limited entry system. While the Guide/ outfitters may support this, it isn't necessarily their fault. It is the fault of wildlife biologists who are in bed with other special interest groups whose desire is to reduce game populations. In this region of the East Kootenays, the elk population has been reduced by well over 70%. This was not done by guided non-residents but by BC resident hunters. Moose population on the upper Flathead has been decimated. This was not done by guided non-residents but by resident hunters who took advantage of an open season and increased access.
I will probably not live long enough to see the elk come back and it really annoys me.
As far as the first nations/aboriginal/indian impact is concerned, there is little question that in some areas they are the worst game hogs we have but they have plenty of help and many are BCWF members.
It is astounding to me that such a huge province with such a valuable resource can have screwed it up so badly in such a short time but in too many cases a look in the mirror shows the root problem. GD

No, I actually am in favour of a total revamp of BC hunting/management and WOULD support the percentages I posted earlier.

However, in our media-intense world, the comments made here and on other such sites DO impact upon BC citizen's attitudes and we hunters are a small minority of our voting population.

But, like Bill and I am older than he, I do not expect to see much improvement OR stable support for trophy hunting in my lifetime.....rather the reverse, sorry to say.

Great insight there Greydog .Hopefully hunters like CanuckShooter + other BCWF members will be able to look at the big picture on what's going on out there hills and not place the blame on the GOABC for the shortage of big game .

CanuckShooter
I had no issue with GreyDogs post, it's the post from someone who claims to be a resident hunter that has no issue with the GOABC reaping 40% of the grizzly bear allocation, and 25% of moose allocations. Your either a guide, an outfitter, or a resident with deep pockets that can just buy your hunts each year.
Sorry to disappoint you but I am just a hard work resident hunter with very shallow pockets .

I don�t think that anyone is blaming the GOABC for being the only problem, but they are certainly part of the problem. As you and others have stated the game populations are way down, so the GOABC getting a bigger slice, much more than any other state or province, is a big problem. The pie has been reduced and the GOABC wants a bigger slice of that smaller pie. This is the current fight, let�s as resident hunters win this one first, and then get our act together and start solving the other problems that face us. If we don�t, no resident hunter is going to be hunting. We need to get political.

Absolutely, the entire approach to environmental/resource management here MUST improve and SOON, but, if we allow this latest travesty, we WILL lose what little hunting we have left.

In any event, some regions, the Kootenays, certainly, are now so populated, etc., that there is simply not enough game or fish to allow any non-resident allocation.

The massive habitat damage caused by foreign corporations/governments as in the "strip miones" and the accursed hydro dams has caused this and we are left to cope with the after effects.

When I look at the discussion we are having I am puzzled by one thing only and it is this....
The land simply isn't supporting the game that it should be, why not?
Some want to blame the GOABC, where I hunt there are no G/O, so thats not why there is such a depletion of game.
Some want to point fingers at the Indians...
Where I hunt in 40 years I've never seen an indian hunting there, so thats not the problem.
Theres been more wolves, that has had a slight impact, but no big deal.
What I do see is a network of roads that weren't there before and there is access to every mountain top and the game simply has nowhere to go, I see guys too fat and lazy to get out of the truck and they seem to shoot stuff if they spend the time driving around.

A big increase in hunters over the last few years, this year I think it was 6 hunters I ran into that probably cant say 10 words in english and I wonder why/how they passed their hunter safety courses to get the licence in the 1st place.
Why the forestry wont de-activate the roads after reforestation is just stupid in my view.

In short there is no reason the land can't support plenty of game for everyone, like it has in the past.
It infuriates me that after a fire they dont de-activate the roads so the benefit of the fire can have a spiraling outward effect on the game within the region, especially mule deer pops.
I'm not against G/O having their fair share, but thats it.

Every time u hunt with a BCGOA outfit u have contributed 200 dollars into a fund used to lobby against the interests of fellow hunters. Perhaps you could question whether you could choose not to pony up.

In my experience the resident BC hunter has always had a lot or respect for the old multigenerational guide outfitters. They also very much wanted to share BCs unequalled hunting expiriences with their fellow foreign hunters. The problem is the new generation outfitters, more banker than cowboys who have a very low tolerance for resident hunters. Any outfitter worth his day rate should have no problem competing with the local hunters as they have more time and toys.They just dont want to work that hard.

That's a completely different topic than the allocation issue. We're talking about the guides being gifted exclusive access to game animals that BC residents want to hunt.

Correct, Jim, and it is all too easy to be distracted from the REAL issue here, which is another "giveaway" of BC/Canadian resources to (usually) wealthy foreigners by craven, treacherous and morally bankrupt government(s).

Having actually worked for F&W and BCFS, I will say that the "bios" and other such staffers do what they are TOLD and you soon are turfed if you dare contradict the official attitude at the time, ecological issues notwithstanding.

So, while blaming the "bios" is an old game and SOME residents have/do take more than is acceptable and even legal, the GOs and foerigners STILL take game/fish which residents now need and MUST have, especially in the Kootenays.

Motorized access IS an issue, but, many residents cannot afford packtrains and some of us are 65+ and need our 4x4s; I do not and have never even ridden on any type of ATV.

So, if we just had genuine goodwill among user groups and governments that would support real management, there would STILL be plenty for all.....but, we have seen how that goes!

And have to apply for a tag in the loto system to hunt. There was 1000 people at a rally at the legislature buildings on Monday. And still the government hasn't budged or indicated giving back quota stolen from resident hunters. All other party leaders are on side with resident hunters and spoke at the rally in opposition to the governments policy which is encouraging but we have a long ways to go to defeat this.

This, is ONLY the very beginning of the battle for control/conservation of OUR resources and the stakes are simply enormous.

I would point out that the accursed Columbia River Treaty, among the most vile "sellouts" in Canada's history is currently being renegotiated...AND, rather quietly.

The effects of both the political process involved and the impact on what WAS the greatest salmonid river system on Earth, will be the defining event of 21stC BC history, well, at least equal to the "Asian invasion" now destroying our traditional culture.

We MUST "grow" our hunting culture and, especially among the educated, erudite and politically astute and powerful segment of BC society and we MUST reinvigorate our sense of nationalist ownership and control of OUR BC.....NOW!

I am heartened by what is happening, but, it is a ripple in a sea where a tsunami is required; let's hope that the movement grows and continues.