Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Winchester Collectors lets design ideal old 70 hunting rifle

OK pre-64 men, lets have a little fun. Its winter here in northern michigan so not good shooting weather. So lets pool our expertise and design the ideal hunting rifle for anything in North America built around a pre-64. We can start with the action of course, consider the pros and cons of the various cartridges and finally select a cartridge, then consider stock options, ideal dimensions, perfect optics, etc. We probably won't agree on much but it will be fun. There's no wrong idea, other than we stick with a pre-64 action to start.

I'll start us off by throwing out a couple ideas and then you guys take it from there. Since we don't have a cartridge yet, lets just say we'll take a early 50's vintage action, but swap the steel bottom metal for a featherweight to save weight and have the bolt knob checkered for a little fast bolt work.

OK, let the ideas start coming. Thanks for playing.

Ruffed Grouse

50's FWT 30-06 VX3 2x8 or 3x9

I might go for a slightly different stock (probably a brown or bansner) but hard to fault the other components! That or a 270/280 and take the big bears out of the equation. In a perfect world I'd have the bolt handle tweaked so I could mount the scope as low as possible, but that is just me!

Very hard to improve on the original....

Well it could have been stainless

Vote with KeystoneBen because I have one just like his except in 270.But I have other 270's and 30/06's too.

I have been dropping pre 64 M70's into aftermarket synthetic stocks since about 1979-1980 and hunting with them in calibers from 270 to 375H&h and many in between. Some of these have had custom barrels and some factory. From the standpoint of reliability,these rifles made it hard to justify a custom rifle.

But some how I managed that, too.

BSA has a picture of my retro custom 7 Rem Mag in wood stock that would qualify if a guy wants to do it with wood/blue.I've had similar rifles in 270 and 280.

Sometimes I think excruciating over cartridges will drive you nuts. I've never come back from a hunt and complained I didn't get what I was after because I had the wrong cartridge.

Here would be my entry.

Pre-War Model 70 .375 ACK Mag. Burgess/Hoenig.

That's really very unfair.....

Two geniuses like them,together in the same rifle,makes lots of other stuff pale in comparison. My head hurts thinking about it.

Really unfair..Yes. Absolutely beautiful-yes also.

Well, let's consider these questions: so this rifle will be used for north america from whitetails in the brush, elk, sheep in the mountains, to moose and the big bears. So what caliber and weight do we want to end up with? I'm thinking a 8 1/2# .300 Win. Mag. might do well with a barrel contour similar to the standard weight barrel (.600" at the muzzle). Any other votes for the .300 as caliber of choice?

Hypothetically, what could one accomplish with a .300 Win that one could not with a .30-06.

Say a featherweight in a McMillan Edge?

What a junker. When are you going to get a nice rifle???

Don't be a hater.

BTDT. Way ahead of you buddy..

I'm getting nauseas just thinking about a 300. Unless you were talking about the 300 savage

Exactamundo. Make mine a hunters compact with standard fill though. Hold the edge. No need: the standard fill hunters compact balances out perfectly with the 22" barreled fwt.

I have mine.

1949 .270 in a stock I inletted, finished, and checkered myself. Leupold QR mount for quick Lyman 48 interchangeability, 4x scope ( happens to be an old Burris). There is zero wood exposed. The entire action, magazine well, and barrel channel is epoxied in.



And the old girl shoots too:



That is a 200 yard 3 shot group fired prone over my backpack on the Wyoming prairie with the wind behind me.

Love that rifle.

That sure is a nice rifle. You do great work!!

[quote=pre6422hornet]I have mine.

1949 .270 in a stock I inletted, finished, and checkered myself. Leupold QR mount for quick Lyman 48 interchangeability, 4x scope ( happens to be an old Burris). There is zero wood exposed. The entire action, magazine well, and barrel channel is epoxied in.



Dude, that is one beautiful looking gun! I'm here working in southern Michigan in the snow looking at this and can't wait to get home tomorrow to send picks of my entry. Sorry guys but I'm of the Elmer Keith school and since no 333OKH, i'll gladly take my Alaskan in 338.

beautiful rifle razz: did you stock it from the blank or get it semi-inletted? Its so beautiful it might be hard to take on a rough weather hunt. You did a great job. Congrats !! thanks for sharing !!

I love my 338 win mag as well Razz. I also love the good ol 30-06, however my 270 fwt is very comfortable to shoot and pack around. The damn thing is extremely accurate too. More so than it needs to be. I've been leaving it at home because it makes my 30-06 look bad: BobinNH warned me that would probably happen Kinda pisses me off, but that's life I guess...

thanks guys!

I have some stocks inbound from the east coast that I will be working on soon for a good friend. Plus an old Mauser stock for a client in Oregon. Then this spring another commission of 2 stocks from up North. Wonder how I am going perform my day job!

Razz, good luck on the flight home! I am flying back to ABQ tomorrow as well. Wife says it is supposed to drop an inch of snow and the city is going bererk!!

Here it is. Finished weight with scope, rings and sling. Capable of sub MOA and a delight to carry and shoot...

I hate to show my 338 again, but here it is. It's damn near perfect for me. I like the fact that it has a capacity of 5 and weighs 8 pounds loaded and ready to go:



I played around with the stock paint job again the other day. I wanted to try some black speckles to kind of bring out the midnight blue cerakote better:



Another rifle that I feel is damn near perfect for me is my 270 fwt. It's stocked with the Mcmillan hunters compact standard fill. Leupold DD lows and Zeiss 3-9x42. I like everything about it, even the cheap azzed Zeiss...:


I've always been a 30-06 guy and feel I have to be honest. I don't really care for the swirly on my 30-06 fwt. Why, because it is kind of slick feeling and it's heavy......:

I'll be on the lookout for another hunters compact for my 06 fwt. It's a damn shame to like a 270 over a 30-06, just because you like the stock better...

That's a weird azzed looking Winchester model 70..

Couldn't have said it better...

Sure! I've had several 300 magnums (300 Weatherby, Winchester,and H&H) put together on pre 64 actions,mostly Brown Precision stocks. One of the earlier one's was on a H&H action from a rifle someone had butchered.Butch Searcy installed a SS Krieger chambered 300 Win Mag,and bedded it in a Brown for me. I used it all over the west and in Canada on quite a few hunts,killed a lot of game with it.

It weighed 8.25-8.5 pounds scoped. I would not really want it much lighter.

That particular rifle never killed a brown bear because I used a 375 H&H for that; but you could.It was a pretty deadly rifle with Nosler Partitions and Bitterroots.A bit potent for smaller stuff but it certainly kills them fine.

Doing the same thing today I would not change much; I'd use D'Arcy Echols Legend with a standard fill because that stock is so good at mitigating recoil.

That's because it's a Dennis Olson Sako....I bet.

Ruffed Grouse, that's not mine. I was quoting pre6422hornet. picture and gun are all his and yes it is fine!

Yup, I started with a model 70, just didn't use any of it...

Hah! I guessed right!

Hopefully the one I'm having built now will be close to a one gun all around solution. I'm currently having Mark Penrod build a 7 Mag on an H&H action with a fast twist barrel. Will be fully blueprinted and timed. Having it cerakoted and dropped in a legend stock.

That is a beauty!!

I think the ideal is probably an early 50's .270 Fwt. I would keep the wood stock, throw on a Swaro 2-12x50 and rock on.

Eric

mntmn: That sounds like it will turn out great!

Bob,

Lot of Allen Day's influence along with yours went into the thinking.

Well.... Mines pretty darned good already, for my use.

M70 Alaskan, McMillan Pre 64 Monte Carlo, Red Pad, 2.5x10 Swaro, Talley Screwlock mounts, and proper sling!





For some silly reason I think I need other rifles and I blame you all for it..

Nice Scotty! Very NICE!

Thanks Pat. That rifle really is, "the one" for me. Balances well, weight is pretty easily carried and it is consistent for me. I'd take it anywhere. 200's for small stuff, 275's for bigger stuff and the 225 BBC's for anything else!

Heck yes!!!

mntman: Uh-oh....bad influence.

Hmmmm....I think Pat and Scotty have both been nominated for Model 70 salesmen of the year a couple times....

POS, THIS is supposed to be about "Winchester" model 70's...

I'd say so!!

BobinNH is the reason I bought a damn 270 Winchester...

I thought that title should go to tdn...

My philosophy about magnums is not light bullets screaming fast. It is about heavy bullets fast enough. But you have to be willing to haul around enough barrel length to take advantage of the case capacity. I love my .300, but a .30-06 FWT would be a damn fine rifle.

Not to take away from many of the other "bad" influences around here, but, I give Allen Day a lot of credit for my perspectives about winnys. I was always a fan of his writings. I didn't always agree with his perspectives 100%, but he clearly based them on first hand experiences. Shame he's not still around or I'd be asking him what he thought I was doing wrong in my build. (besides not building a 300 win mag of course). Always seemed like a pretty smart fella.

Haha, well played sir . I love em and leave em, but hoping to settle down with a few this year. ... Hoping...

Haha, well played sir . I love em and leave em, but hoping to settle down with a few this year. ... Hoping...

Not going to happen...

IMO, Winchester DID design the ideal hunting rifle - the Pre-64 70 in .270 with a good quality 6x period scope. Maybe I'm biased, but this is my ideal, the top one. No plastic stocks, no nothing, just the rifle as designed.



yooper

Nice keeping it old school. I have 2 pre 64's with the wood stocks left on them. 1 is waiting to go to it's new home and the other is waiting to go on a real "big" big game hunt...



I pulled the original stock and put it in a dual cross bolt stock and glass bedded the thing. It's not as pretty as the original stock, but it's much stronger and more trust worthy now:



My Alaskan is still in it's original stock too, but a much improved (over original) pillar/glass bedding job was done..:

This, is an "easy" one and I already may have the rifle(s) to offer as my solution to the OP's query.

I bought my first P-64, an unfired Alaskan-.338WM 47 years ago, almost to the day, aged 21 and a working "mountainman" for the old BC Forest Service-this included solo stints of three months, NO breaks, on remote fire lookouts in Grizzly country where the "B machine" helos we used had strict weight limits and ONE rifle was IT.

During the intervening years, I have owned 43 P-64s and two custom Classic sts rifles plus about 100 other big game rifles and I STILL consider the P-64s to be among the BEST serious hunting/working rifles ever made.

For ME, you may well differ, I would choose TWO to meet this specification.

1. .338WM Alaskan, good synthetic stock, Leupy 1.75x6 MHD and M-8 4x MHD, in Talley QD screwlocks, Brockman rear peep/base and a "Sourdough" front sight. Load ONE bullet weight, using different types if you are "techy" or just shoot 250NPs over RE-22 to make 2800 at the muzzle and with sub-moa accuracy.

I have four VERY clean specimens of this rifle and seldom use them now as I carry my Dakota .338s, a pair, for most hunts. I like the 23" tubes as I am a short guy and BC is kinda bushy.

2. Fwt.-270Win. all changes as above and scopes are Swaro Z3-3x9, or, Leupy VX3-2.5x8 or Conquest 3x9s. I shoot 150 NPs over RE-22 for hunting and whatever 150s for practice as I do 250 whatevers in the .338s for the same purpose.

I have changed the trigger guards to factory steel ones, retained the alloy floorplates and tuned the triggers on all my rifles.

I have two originals of these and a "made up" one on a 1946 std. action using a Classic sts FWT. tube and a modded Micky MK-X Edge stock, now my alltime favourite .270.

IF, I were younger, I would have Ed Lapour's flanged safetys installed on all of my dozen P-64s and Darcy Echol's 4+1 mags. on the .338s, plus have the Classic gas blocks installed on all 12 of my remaining P-64s.

All of my 10 originals, most are 95% at least are rigged this way, but, I no longer shoot most of them, however, the above .338/270 combo is my concept of the "best" in P-64s for hunting as the OP describes.

All of THAT said, my ideal setup would be a .270 on a "roundbolt" Brno 21H action and a 4+1 .338 on a Brno ZG-47 as these actions are the pinnacle of production sporting rifle actions and even better with minor mods.

SNAP: Really appreciate your post with the extensive experience you've had with your old 70s. Sounds to me like the perfect 2 gun combination for anything in north america. Interesting you mention the Ed LaPour flanged bolt sleeves. I contacted him recently about one and he said he was out of stock and wouldn't be running any more this year. I hear a small number of gun writers talk about this design error on the old 70s but I've never had any bad experience with the many I shoot and hunt with. What is your experience with this? I've only blown one primer from an old 70 and I never knew it happened until I extracted the case and saw it. Thanks again.

It would be original Mauser 1898 with full inner front ring collar, lever or inside trigger guard magazine plate release, old Model 70 type trigger plus two position tang safety and Kimber style stock. I have seen Holland & Holland Mannlicher .375 Magnum set up this way so it is possible. The biggest issues with old Model 70 are: gas venting system, fugly "boat oar" stock , floor plate release and POS three position safety.

RG-During the past 47 years that I have been handloading and shooting P-64s, I have had about four case head separations. All of these, except one, happened in P-64 actions, one a custom .280 Rem. using a No. 3 SGW tube, a rifle that shot .5" at 200 yds. with 160 NPs consistently, were .300H&H rifles.

I had a .243Win. let go in a Dumoulin FN "H-ring" action, supposedly superior to Mod. 70s and THAT sent more gas back than ANY of the incidents in P-64s. Soooo, my wish to install Ed's safety is based on my innate caution, a character trait that a lot of the real bushmen I used to work with shared....when alone 100 air miles from any road and in "no fly" weather, in BC's mountains, only an idiot takes chances.....

So, my experience was like yours, I extracted the cases and then found the problem....the H&H chambered P-64s seem very prone to this and I suspect that their chambers were deliberately cut large to cope with 1950s ammo and African weather.

There is a LOT of ignorant and self-serving bullsh*t written in gunrags and posted on forums about various gun issues and many seem to need to attempt to "defend" their preconceived notions about rifles, etc. This, has always been the case with P-64s and such cr*pola is best ignored.

That said, for a "working" bush rifle, there is NO "better" choice as they came from the factory than a P-64; look at all the Alaskan guides and many African ones who chose these.

Kute, why did you change your screen name?? I'm loving what you are bringing to the table brother. Thanks for the very informative post..

Great thread fella's. Really enjoy all of the Pre 64's up on here.

I totally agree Scotty!! Original or slightly/highly customized, it doesn't matter to me. They are all good.

I like your way of thinking!!!

Oh yeah, I was going to say that as well.. Pretty hard to beat those two.. I am missing the Pre 64 270, but my old Classic 270WSM does work well.

I think it's getting some stock work soon too..

You're like me and really like the classics too. I only have 2 left (30-06 sporter and 7mm rem mag SS), but they have done everything I've asked without even the slightest hiccup. I've heard of some having problems, but I'm thankful I got real lucky with mine!!!! I'd have a hard time letting either of mine go. I probably use the 30-06 the majority of the time when hunting both deer and elk here.. It's a fun gun and I don't mind switching scopes, mounts, painting the stocks, cerakoting etc. etc... Eventually the 30-06 is going to be turned into a 9.3x62mm and I'll sell all of my other rifles...

Yeah, I am the opposite actually, I only have 1 Pre 64 and the rest are Classic's along with a 90's era XTR. All have been functional and accurate, but my first and only Pre 64 is truly my favorite rifle, hands down.

My 270WSM Classic has been very good. No hiccups and accurate as all get out and easy to work with. I think of it as the 270 Ackley.. 150's at the same speed a 270 Win does 130's. Pretty good combo. The bullets are what makes them cool to me...

Don't shoot up all those BBC's in one place. You'll play hell replacing those ones..

You know you love that 338 too. I can see more pre's in your future..

I agree, good stuff here. But I keep thinking there has to be room for a 30-06 in there! lol.

Eric

I agree Eric. The 270 is very good and the only reason I like mine better than my 30-06:



Taken from a previous post earlier in the thread... I've tried to like the swirly, but like the Mcmillan hunters compact better. I was very disappointed in the weight of the swirly. Like I said before, the damn thing weighs more than the original wood stock. For me, the main reason for going to a synthetic is to lose weight and gain strength. If you aren't doing both, it's hardly worth switching...JMHO..

I hear you. That's the tradeoff when going Swirly vs. an Edge.

Eric

My 270 doesn't have an edge on it.. I'm like Oregon45 and actually prefer the balance better with the standard fill hunters compact on the fwt's. My 30-06 EW with the edge was too light in my opinion and just didn't feel right. Especially when shooting it off the bench . I'd rather shoot my 338 Alaskan. Thus it went down the road..

This is a great thread. Its got me to thinking about why I like my pre 64's so much and what it takes to make the "ideal" model 70. Well this thread and the recent "balance" thread has got me thinking.

Kutenay put a lot of perspective on the whole thing. I'd like to add what I feel the ideal model 70 build should include:

1. Proper balance...
2. Ideal cartridge to weight ratio..
3. Magazine capacity..
4. Strength of both action and stock..
5. Choice in optics and mounts/rings..
6. Fitting the rifle to you and your needs. AKA proper ergos..
7. Excellent accuracy.
8. Reliability and function.

You should be able to roll all this up into a nice package and call it your "ideal" model 70 build..

bsa: Good post!

When up and moving I tend to carry a rifle in my left hand, under the floor plate. I like rifles that sit there "neutral" and muzzle or butt tilt has me searching for the middle...so I like rifles with the weight evenly distributed between my hands.

Rifles like that seem to "point" more like a shotgun and the grouse guns I grew up with(very fast). I know some folks like a bit of muzzle tilt and I concede to that for some...but mostly I like a more neutral feel. I don't find these difficult to shoot at all.

I like a 22" barrel in standard cartridges like a 270, 280,7x57, 7/08,30/06,etc etc;and I like a light contour barrel, either FW or krieger #1. For stocks I've liked and used in no particular order, Brown Precision,Bansner,and McMillan Edge.

I used to stretch this concept into the 7 mag arena but by the time I get to a 7mm magnum I want a bit more stock(at least fuller dimensions) and my "new" favorite is the Echols Legend for anything 7 Rem Mag and up. I would not use an Edge in anything above a 7mm magnum. IMO you need more weight in a 300 magnum both to cut recoil ,offset a heavier barrel contour,and cut stock resonance in a rifle lighting a big fire.

I am slowly changing my mind when it comes to a 30/06 in a FW package...used to be fine with a light Brown but will likely use an Echols Legend on my present pre 64 FW....a light 30/06 can gin up a fair amount of recoil with full loads and the Legend mitigates recoil.

In 338 I'll take standard fill,and weight of 8-8.5 pounds scoped.I like a 23" barrel....ditto a 375 H&H where I like about a #4 contour and 23" is perfect to me but I can live with the 25" barrels of the pre 64's in 375 and 338,and an Echols Legend, standard fill.

I like any stock color so long as it's black, grey or brown...compared to a nice piece of French any synthetic is less than attractive, so I don't go crazy. I do like the colors on my Mashburn, though, which is a black/brown mix.

A posts back, somebody mentioned that there should be room among my rifles for a .30-06 and I DO have a 98% P-64 FWT., pillar-bedded into one of the original Pacific Research synthetic stocks and with a Leupy QR/Lyman receivr sight.Sourdough sight setup that I use on many of my rifles.

I had five VERY choice .30-06 rifles in my safes until a couple of years ago, when I began to seriously thin my collection as I am now eager to do.

I have kept this one, it shoots "lights out", but, I just am not a .30-06 guy, although I have used this round in bushwork and realize it's capabilities.

EACH to his own, but, I much prefer one of the 7mm standard rounds and the 7-08 for MY uses and a .338WM for any hunting where I consider it worth packing a rifle weighing 8,5-9lbs.

SNAP no disagreement but I have this very nice pre 64 FW 06 and need to do something with it as I feel the need....

I do like and admire the old round.

I have really enjoyed all the posts guys. Unlike most of you, or maybe any of you, I've only used the original wood stocks on my pre-64s for all my hunting. Yes, I know thats pretty old school and behind the times. Guess I'm too old fashioned and tight. I've always taken lots of time to properly weatherproof them on the inside, but the big majority of my hunting has been done in cold conditions so I've never really worried about moisture having an adverse effect on the stock. The big portion of my hunting over the past 20 years plus has been with .270s. I have 3 of them: all pre-64s. The first is a transition action with a featherweight contour Douglas barrel 22" long that I used in Michigan's Upper Penninsula brush. The second is also a custom barrel: a Hart with 26 1/2" heavy barrel (.700 at the muzzle) for prairie whitetail hunting.Muzzle heavy by design and about 10 1/2#. And the 3rd has become my most used: a standard factory barrel and stock. I really like this rifle and it has taken most of my coyotes as well.

Then I started hunting in Alaska as we have relatives and now our youngest son is up there guiding. So I bought a pre-64 .300 Win. Mag. with what ended up being a barrel with much throat erosion and ended up re-placing it last summer with a douglas that ended up at 25". This is the rifle I took to Kodiak Island in Sept. for my goat hunt with my son. I had taken a lot of effort to weather-proof the insides of the stock as well as the outside and it performed fine, even though we didn't get lots of rain as Kodiak is famous for. I plan I using this same rifle in Idaho this fall for elk.

I'm kind of a "if it ain't broke don't fix it guy. But I did break down and bought a set of Talley lightweights for the .300 before the goat hunt simply because I wanted to reduce weight a bit for climbing after those goats. I think the rifle weights about 8# 12 or 13 oz. loaded.

So when I started this thread, it was partially just for fun, but also thinking what about just ONE rifle for the rest of my hunting. If it weren't for Alaska with the brown bears, I'd probably be thinking standard caliber, but frankly, as I include Alaska with larger animals, I think that the .300 Win. Mag. with a Leup. 2 1/2-8 (what's on my .300) just might make a lot of sense for that one north american rifle. I just might even break down and put one of those non-wood stocks on it!!

Thanks again guys for all the input and sharing of experiences.

Ruffed Grouse

Great post, lots of very good points there. Turns out we are pretty much in agreement on what works, so you must be right!

pat lots of those formulas came from building in days when there were not so many factory options....at least I was not happy with what was out there. So I built a lot of rifles.

I recall driving Butch Searcy nuts with one 7 mag..2-3 trips back till the contour was just right...but when he got it, he really got it...and the rifle was a favorite for years before I toasted the barrel. I have duplicated it two other times since and wore those barrels out as well.So lots of stuff today does not grab my attention because I had it years ago.

I am still pretty content with a pre 64 FW dropped in a synthetic. Magnums need more thought in balancing weight and portability with tolerable recoil.

Ruffed grouse there is wood over here as well; your choice of a 300 Win Mag is very good IMHO...tough to beat that cartridge for all round utility. Drop it in a Legend if you go synthetic and I promise you will not be disappointed....JMHO of course.

I had probably the first Legend stock blanks that came into Canada, in my gunroom, belonging to my best buddy, several years ago.

I was considering installing them on my finest pair of P-64 .375/.300H&H rifles, but, found the ergonomics did not suit me. I managed to find a pair of Borden-Rimrock stock blanks and these are now on these rifles.....makes a FINE pair which I have not shot in 4-5 years.

So, I would advise trying different stock styles until YOU find what feels best to YOU. I happen to find the MPI Dakota Classic, the Bansner-Hightech, the Rimrock and, especially the original AHR style from Mickys, for the CZ-550, to suit me best.

I wish Micky would offer this pattern, inletted for Mauser 98s, I would LOVE to build my three remaining Brno 21/ZG actions into rifles using this stock.

Trust me, you want what is called "Professionals Magnum":

"Grandpas Magnum"......

Key questions would be type of muzzle break it has and barrel twist rate. Ideally you want to stabilize heavier bullets otherwise there is no point of having hole larger than .30 caliber. I would leave guns like .338Mag and .375Mags to them young whippersnappers!

I wish I could find an original AHR for my CZ 550 American 9.3..

Bob's always right. At least everything I've read from him makes sense to me...

Good posts guys. Let us remember Phil Shoemaker really likes the 30-06 stuffed with 200-220 gr. nosler partitions. That speaks volumes on the capabilities of the old war horse.. Give me a nicely stocked fwt over a big heavy kicking 300 win mag any day of the week and twice on sunday...BTDT and ain't going back.. Here's what MR. Shoemaker had to say:



I'd also pick a good well balanced 9.3x62mm over the 300 win mag. "Different strokes for different folks"....

Not old, but if you will allow a NH action and Bartlein barrel im .308W. 7lb 6.5oz and balances pretty nice. Shoots better than good also.

Excellent. You notice you, Bob and myself use the same front rest. Think that has an effect on our group shooting abilities?

Lately I've been using an old rolled up sleeping bag for a front rest. Jury is still out, but it may put this one into retirement.

Well, hell yes Eric. Mine is not my pre 64 model 70 fwt though. Need to change the swirly first and then it will make the cut. Sorry for bashing the stock, just not my favorite. For now this one fits in nicely with it's much older brethren:

I use that same rest as well! Lol

Ha ha, now I know how you shot that .17" group with my old rifle... Nothing like shooting $3,000.00 rifles on a $10.00 rest...

Believe it or not that group was shot off a sandbag!


Great lineup! I really like the way the last stock came out! The black you added in really looks nice!

Eric

Thanks buddy. You are just saying that because you want my more original 338 Alaskan... Don't worry, it's yours. I believe you shot the old 30-06 off a sand bag and got a .17" group. That rifle is a people pleaser for sure... I remember it just sank into the bags and it was steady like a rock. I found it hard to not shoot good groups with that thing...








It was cold that day and your rifle never skipped a beat.

I'd like to add EricM's 1951 std. to the list: "ideal old 70 hunting rifle". I built this one to be a shooter and it definitely does that. It's also well balanced. I pillar/glass bedded the action in tight and freefloated the original barrel. It took work freefloating the barrel since it has the dog knot (sight boss). I also omitted the forend screw and made a dummy screw to go in the hole so the rifle still appears somewhat original (besides the stock being from a newer(1962) rifle). I was always very happy with this model 70 and consider it a damn good build and a damn good hunting rifle. It's also a sleeper, so if you see Eric with it and he wants to shoot for money, don't do it!!!..
[img]http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x401/chiefbsa/007-6.jpg[/img]

Allen and I became friends around 1999. We often talked on the phone. As much as he liked the 300 WM, he absolutely loved the 270. I do miss him... shame he died so young.

Funny how I've really come around to the 270. Just does about everything well, and I'd not hesitate tackling a grizzly with one.

Anyway, my one and only complaint about the pre-64 is the bolt handle... it really needs to be scalloped to accommodate a lower mounted scope. Aside from that, hard to argue with them in 06-based stuff, where I think they are at their best. Nothing out of the box IME handles 06' cartridges as well as a pre-64. I like the Fwt's best off all.

I'd never checker the bolt handle... a smooth bolt is the absolute ideal for a hunting rifleman. It could be a smidge bigger, but that's ok. It's good enough.

Once upon a time I was a 338 WM guy. It's terrific on big elk, but I got sick of its recoil, and I grew to learn any good cartridge with a properly placed bullet does just fine on any elk that ever walked. I generally prefer a 375 H&H over the 338, and still think a 270 and 375 are about as good a "world pair" as exists.

Here's an unfired 1961 30-06 I picked up in 2008 or 09 and dropped in a Hunters Edge. Only thing I'd change now is make it a 270 with a 1" pad:

Good post Brad. I love that 30-06 fwt too. Nice rifle..

Agreed.....on about everything,right down to the smooth bolt handle.