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Joined: Aug 2009
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,041 |
Rev,get a Leopold 1x-4x scope.  That is what is on my .375 H&H.
Life Member SCI
Life Member DSC
Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
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I have a 1.5-5 VX3 on a Ruger No. 1 that might work too.
"An archer sees how far he can be from a target and still hit it, a bowhunter sees how close he can get before he shoots." It is certainly easy to use that same line of thinking with firearms. -- Unknown
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
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RevMike: Re: your question about the action of the 76: Don Allen and his partner really tried to take what they thought were the best design aspects of the pre-64 model 70 and 98 mauser into one action. However, if you look at a piece by piece aspect, there appears to be more M70 in it than 98. I think these are the basic components:
1) receiver shape: M70
2) recoil lug: M70
3) safety: M70
4) trigger: original M70
5) rear tang: pre-war M70
6) extractor: M70
7) ejector location & design: M70
8) bolt stop & release: kind of its own
9) breeching: Mauser with the receiver ring internal collar
10)gas handling: I'm not sure about where the gas ports are, but the bolt sleeve has a mauser type flange to divert gas that comes back towards the shooter I believe
11) bolts: they are NOT a one piece bolt. At least the current ones. The early ones MIGHT have been but I'm not sure with that either. Current bolts are 2 piece: the handle and the rest.
12) receivers: I believe they are CNC machined from bar stock but I'm not 100% certain on this.
Perhaps others on this site can correct me if I'm wrong on these, or add to any more action details I may have forgot.
I think those are the primary action components. When the 76 came out, there were very few if any of the newer type controlled round actions out there like today: the old Ruger tang safeties were not crf, the 70 classic hadn't come yet and I don't know if the CZ's were available as they are today. It was pretty much either a pre-64 or a highly refined 98 for the true customs.
I've always thought it hard to understand that the custom builders didn't seem to flock to the Dakota like I thought they would. It has been used a fair amount, but not hugely. It's interesting that the two custom builders who are considered pretty much on top, David Miller and D'Arcy Echols have pretty much stayed with M70s. That says quite a lot.
You hear from time to time that Dakotas have had accuracy issues, but I have no experience with that. At one time they used Shilen barrels and still may.
As far as aesthetics, they are indeed quite the lookers to those who have classic tastes. I'm not convinced that for the money difference that they're worth that much more. But of course, love is blind. And if you are indeed a pastor, you surely know that "things" never satisfy. Hope this helps a little.
Good Luck.
That helps a lot, thanks! One of the things I want to make sure of is that the irons are actually usable and not merely cosmetic. A lot of that is going to be a function of stock design. In my particular hunting environment there are times when open sights come in handy. Thanks again. The quarter rib limits scope choice. You almost have to use a straight tube, low power scope, as there isn't much room for an objective of any size without using very high rings. Quarter rib also adds weight. I'm not fond of them, functionally speaking, but do like the Safari look... Irons may not be that useful for most North American hunting applications. Everything is a trade off, one way or another. DF
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 14,232
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 14,232 |
There has been one used .270 M76 at a local dealer for a couple years. I think it's a little over $3k. The wood is quite plain. I think in general they over-rate their wood. Did I mention I am a wood slut?   I've seen Dakota call wood XX grade, that would be called "decent" by a Ruger #1 owner. here's an example: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=464588721In fairness, there have been some Dakotas out recently that seem better - this one is honest to God exhibition wood: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=464165855I nearly bought a Model 10 in 7mm Dakota a few years ago, but could not quite swing it at the time, It was a little over $3k and had good wood. I collect single shots so a Model 10 is on my wish list. Because of the weight of a M76 action, I think I would lean toward it for medium bores & DG cartridges, more so than general deer-sized game. The M76 Traveler take-downs are pretty interesting, though spendy. You can have more than one barrel & caliber for a different action, as long as the case heads match - for example a 7mm STW, and a .375 H&H, Or a a .338 Lapua and a .416 Rigby. All the #10`s I have seen ,seem to have a better chunk of wood than the 76`s.
Its all right to be white!!
Stupidity left unattended will run rampant
Don't argue with stupid people, They will drag you down to their level and then win by experience
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 14,232
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2007
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Agreed, was going to post much the same, these rifles make outstanding .300 mags, ,338s, ,375s and so forth, but, are a tad weighty in, say, .270Win. They are IT for the superb, outstanding and perfect .338WM, the best cartridge for serious hunting..... My 280 weighed 7.5 Lbs bare naked.Not really terrible .
Its all right to be white!!
Stupidity left unattended will run rampant
Don't argue with stupid people, They will drag you down to their level and then win by experience
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 478
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 478 |
That is 8.5 lbs. scoped, try to pack that up BC mountains for a few days, through 8 ft. Devil's Club, "Slide Alder" and snow to your knees and then see what you think.
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Joined: Dec 2012
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
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The quarter rib limits scope choice. You almost have to use a straight tube, low power scope, as there isn't much room for an objective of any size without using very high rings. Quarter rib also adds weight. I'm not fond of them, functionally speaking, but do like the Safari look...
Irons may not be that useful for most North American hunting applications.
Everything is a trade off, one way or another.
DF I think the configuration would work pretty well in my specific hunting situations. It isn't likely I'll ever be heading to Africa, and where I hunt - I try to get out at least once per week all year round - a long shot is 150 yards. So it's rare that I ever dial up from about the lowest setting on a scope, and if for some reason a porker makes it into heavy brush or palmetto, the scope is probably coming off anyway. In my hunting environment, a low power, straight tube scope is about perfect, especially if it has an illuminated post and crosshair or German 4 reticle. Right now I'm just exploring. What you said about having one of my current rifles reworked without a doubt makes the best sense. While I have a M70fwt and Montana ASR, for some reason I continue to grab the Zastava M70 (M98) when I'm heading out the door. I think probably the main reason for that is the design of the stock. It's a Monte Carlo with a LOP of 14.5 inches. I'm rather long-armed and it just feels better than the other two. That may be a function of weather as much as anything. Right now it's 76 degrees outside and I'll be hunting this evening in shirtsleeves. So what would it take to have the Zastava reworked? I would expect have the action trued and tuned, cut the existing stock down so the fore end is more British style and fill in the gaps around the inletting (not a Serbian strongpoint), make sure the comb isn't too high to actually be able to use iron sights, put on a quarter-rib and hooded f/o banded front sight, and move the forward sling swivel out to the barrel. I have no idea what the cost would be, but I expect it'd be considerably less than the cost of a new Dakota. And I wouldn't want to throw up every time it banged against the stand as I hoisted it up a tree!  
"An archer sees how far he can be from a target and still hit it, a bowhunter sees how close he can get before he shoots." It is certainly easy to use that same line of thinking with firearms. -- Unknown
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,080
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,080 |
If you're gonna lose your lunch, banging a $7K rifle stock against a tree, your re-work idea definitely has merit...
Maybe Fire contributors can suggest someone like Karnis if he's still under the weather and unable to do his magic...
DF
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If you're gonna lose your lunch, banging a $7K rifle stock against a tree, your re-work idea definitely has merit... DF $8k+. You sound like my wife!  Who knows: I might be able to get both the Zastava and MRC reworked for less.
"An archer sees how far he can be from a target and still hit it, a bowhunter sees how close he can get before he shoots." It is certainly easy to use that same line of thinking with firearms. -- Unknown
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,263
Campfire Tracker
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The Dakota action is machined after heat treating like the better bench rest actions.
I really like mine and have thought about trading several others to have a pair of them.
But if I had a Zastava action I would be tempted to send it to James Anderson. He worked with Don Allen and in my opinion has surpassed him significantly in skill and artistry. If you want a stock that functions well with scope and iron sights it is best to have it fitted to your needs.
Do a search on Mini Mauser to see some of his work.
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,080
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,080 |
If you're gonna lose your lunch, banging a $7K rifle stock against a tree, your re-work idea definitely has merit... DF $8k+. You sound like my wife! Who knows: I might be able to get both the Zastava and MRC reworked for less. Probably a good bit less... DF
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Joined: Dec 2012
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
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"An archer sees how far he can be from a target and still hit it, a bowhunter sees how close he can get before he shoots." It is certainly easy to use that same line of thinking with firearms. -- Unknown
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 200
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 200 |
Rev,
Probably one of the few on here who:
1. Has owned a Dakota Model 76, 97 and 10.
2. Met Don and Norma.
3. Made several trips to the Dakota shop.
4. Has shot Dakota rifles for years.
These four points don't make me an expert on Dakota rifles, but they mean my perspective is based on actual usage/knowledge and not hearsay or opinion or something their third cousin once removed overheard at a bar in 97, or maybe 98. ;-)
The bottom line is that the gun you have in mind is about as close to perfection as possible. If you like it and it floats your boat, get it. You won't be sorry. Can you buy cheaper guns? Of course. Can you get what others consider better wood? Yes. But Dakota will build you a thing of beauty that shoots and their customer service is incredible. I'm sure you've spoken with Marla or Ward, but they can answer all of your questions. Again, this is just my two cents, but I can't wait to see your gun. AND GET THE QUARTER RIB. A 7x57 must have a quarter rib.
"One man with courage makes a majority."
Hank
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Joined: Dec 2012
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Thanks, I appreciate that. Yes, Marla is who I've been talking with. If that's the route I go it'll definitely have the quarter rib. Since I'm a little OCD, I might just take a trip to SD to have the stock fitted. That way I know everything will line up the way it should. As I told my wife, yeah, it's a lot of money...but at least it's not the Westley Richards I've been looking at! ![[Linked Image]](http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz265/mlward_ssa/WR-Bolt-action-Rifl_zps53b2bf79.jpg) Here's the current Zastava Mauser I could have reworked. ![[Linked Image]](http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz265/mlward_ssa/Boar_10_31_14_Oak_zps03d78b23.jpg) Or the MRC (poor picture) ![[Linked Image]](http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz265/mlward_ssa/IMG_0219_zps8a4d4ac9.jpg) I think I'll just leave the Featherweight as it is. 
"An archer sees how far he can be from a target and still hit it, a bowhunter sees how close he can get before he shoots." It is certainly easy to use that same line of thinking with firearms. -- Unknown
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Hey Elk and DF, what do you think? Perfect for the annual parish men's outing. ![[Linked Image]](http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz265/mlward_ssa/CamoClergyShirt_zpsf8559b2b.jpg)
"An archer sees how far he can be from a target and still hit it, a bowhunter sees how close he can get before he shoots." It is certainly easy to use that same line of thinking with firearms. -- Unknown
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 200
Campfire Member
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Posts: 200 |
That Westley Richards is one in a million!!! Yes, a trip to Sturgis would be wise (just don't go the first week of August). On top of getting fitted and meeting the folks who would be building your gun, you could pick out your wood. Sounds like a great plan to me. Good luck.
"One man with courage makes a majority."
Hank
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 28,375
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 28,375 |
Get the Dakota. Meet with them, fuss over every little detail, call them constantly during the build process, maybe go back to SD to check on the progress - in short, enjoy every single moment of the rifle building process. Seems to me this is all about getting "The Rifle" - pause for trumpet fanfare - instead of a reliable tool for hunting. I mean, no offense intended at all, but if you're hunting pigs and such in what sounds like Florida or other palmetto laced area, there are thousands of off the shelf firearms that could provide a lifetime of excellent service. So - get The Rifle that warms your heart. You can get a good smith to rework another rifle and IMHO it would probably, no it would very likely shoot as straight and function as well, but it wouldn't be The Rifle. Seriously, get what your heart wants, this is no time to count pennies or be "practical" - a Ruger American is practical. But you gotta be sure to let us see the finished product.
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery.
Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Campfire Member
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What he ^ said. You really should listen to those of us in Idaho....
"One man with courage makes a majority."
Hank
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,605
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,605 |
Sage advise from jim & H. Ordering, getting fitted, caliber/optics selection makes for a great experience.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
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Get the Dakota. Meet with them, fuss over every little detail, call them constantly during the build process, maybe go back to SD to check on the progress - in short, enjoy every single moment of the rifle building process. Seems to me this is all about getting "The Rifle" - pause for trumpet fanfare - instead of a reliable tool for hunting. I mean, no offense intended at all, but if you're hunting pigs and such in what sounds like Florida or other palmetto laced area, there are thousands of off the shelf firearms that could provide a lifetime of excellent service. So - get The Rifle that warms your heart. You can get a good smith to rework another rifle and IMHO it would probably, no it would very likely shoot as straight and function as well, but it wouldn't be The Rifle. Seriously, get what your heart wants, this is no time to count pennies or be "practical" - a Ruger American is practical. But you gotta be sure to let us see the finished product. I don't take any offense at that at all because you're exactly right: I want what I want, not what I need. I can shoot porkers all day long with my 1962 vintage M94. It's accurate and perfectly adequate. So is the M70 and the ASR. So is the Zastava, for that matter. But whether I have one of those reworked or head to SD, it's more a matter of scratching an itch than anything else. So, as I said, no offense taken as you've hit the nail right on the head. Frankly, if I had the coin that Westley Richards would be mine...and Ingwe would be green!
"An archer sees how far he can be from a target and still hit it, a bowhunter sees how close he can get before he shoots." It is certainly easy to use that same line of thinking with firearms. -- Unknown
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