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Do the 243 in 1-8.

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Very cool Reed glad to see you guys are eyes wide open and able to fine tune things on the go.

bob'- As best I know rifle components can't be shipped out of the US to individuals. US H L security requires a complicated to receive permit for export and its only issued to approved Importers (dealers) abroad who also have to go through a lot of red tape. Something like that anyway...

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Make it a 1:8" and you might be on to something. 1:9" is marginal for most 105's and forget 115's at that twist. If your gonna change it, do it right.

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Nobody is going to roll the dice on a $1600 1-9 243 to see it they'll stabilize a 105.

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I bet it will do just fine with the 105HPBT.



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Certainly would prefer a 1:8, but I will certainly be willing to roll the dice.

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Again, how many folks that are going to buy these rifles are going to give a crap about 105 and 115 grain bullets? These are HUNTING rifles, not match rifles.

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Originally Posted by JasonH
Again, how many folks that are going to buy these rifles are going to give a crap about 105 and 115 grain bullets? These are HUNTING rifles, not match rifles.


I give a crap, and that's why I'm putting custom tubes on rifles. As a consumer there are few companies offering an off the shelf rifle with the features I want. Companies like Matrix, Berger, CEB, and GS all make hunting bullets that are better in faster twist in 6mm calibers than 1:9. The only 115 I know that will stabilize in a 1:8 is the DTAC and I'd use them on pronghorn, coyotes, and other vermin.

I'd love to see a fast twist .257 & .277 as well at least a 1:9 to take better advantage of the bullets being offered today. They aren't making bullets any shorter and while the old staples work well, there are plenty of guys out there like me who experiment. My question is what does it hurt to run a fast twist?

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The 280AI was immediately interesting until I noticed the 1/10" twist on the spec sheet. Move that to a 1/8.5 or 1/9 at the absolute slowest. Nice looking rifles. Will keep an eye on your progress. More options only help the consumer.


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Originally Posted by MadMooner
I bet it will do just fine with the 105HPBT.



Willing to bet $1600?..(grin)

I've been pretty impressed with the Berger/Scenar myself the last few years. I've 105'd a lot of deer.

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Trends are trends and since the first mono-metal Barnes bullets in hunting guns and 69,77, and 80 grain Sierra Matchkings in AR's shooters have become interested in sufficient twist for long bullets!


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Not trying to be disrespectful, or hard to get along with, but do you think that the few folks on this board that are whining about twist rates really represent the shooting public as a whole? Because that's who these rifles are marketed to. At the price point they are coming in at, they aren't much more expensive than a Winchester EW or a Kimber Montana. If folks that hand load want rifles with custom twist rates to suit their favorite bullets, then there are plenty of custom rifle makers out there that are doing that kind of thing......just not at this price point. I guess my point is this, why make such a big deal over something that probably matters so little to the MAJORITY of the folks that will be buying these rifles? It just seems childish to me I guess. We should be welcoming these guys with open arms, not trying to micro manage and second guess. It takes a lot of guts for someone from a gun company to step into the lions den that is this forum. I for one appreciate them coming on here and taking the time to communicate with us.

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Bullets aren't getting shorter....and twist rules.

Why not market to the "rifle" guys? If the others aren't in the know, what would it hurt? It's not like faster twists have a negative impact in the cartridges mentioned...


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Originally Posted by JasonH
I guess my point is this, why make such a big deal over something that probably matters so little to the MAJORITY of the folks that will be buying these rifles?


The rifle buying majority is more interested in sub $500 rifles, you might recognize this if you pay attention to where the major companies are focusing their attention. A $1000+ hunting rifle isn't something average Joe hunter is going to buy. So that leaves the rifle loonies who want faster twists to push the limits.

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Originally Posted by JasonH
Not trying to be disrespectful, or hard to get along with, but do you think that the few folks on this board that are whining about twist rates really represent the shooting public as a whole? Because that's who these rifles are marketed to. At the price point they are coming in at, they aren't much more expensive than a Winchester EW or a Kimber Montana. If folks that hand load want rifles with custom twist rates to suit their favorite bullets, then there are plenty of custom rifle makers out there that are doing that kind of thing......just not at this price point. I guess my point is this, why make such a big deal over something that probably matters so little to the MAJORITY of the folks that will be buying these rifles? It just seems childish to me I guess. We should be welcoming these guys with open arms, not trying to micro manage and second guess. It takes a lot of guts for someone from a gun company to step into the lions den that is this forum. I for one appreciate them coming on here and taking the time to communicate with us.


I agree. This obsession with BC. I can understand having a rifle built with LR in mind, but does every rifle with every load need to be 700-yard capable?

I suppose it gives people something to talk about.


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Oh, he's from Oz, that explains the stupidity.


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A big game .243 should be at least 1-9". A match .243 should be faster and a .243 Varminter should be twisted slower.

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Gentlemen,

We truly appreciate the feedback and comments on our rifles. This forum is a unique set of expertise that we value. I would like to add a few thoughts and opinions.

First as I have stated we want to build rifles that are 100% American made and of the highest quality and accuracy at a price point that make them competitive. We got tired of seeing “the race to the bottom” in rifle production by many manufacturers. It is self-defeating and in my opinion a self-cannibalization process…where does it end? While there is certainly nothing wrong with a rifle with an injection molded stock, cast aluminum bed block and plain tubular action selling for under $500…even closer to under $300, it is not what the knowledgeable shooting public wants in our opinion. Those rifles may serve a market, perhaps the beginner or someone on a tight budget, but eventually consumers who keep their interest in firearms and especially those who are knowledgeable like this forum seek more. That is the market we want as JasonH and taylorforce1 opine and we believe others will agree. Our rifles sell for slightly more that many standard big company production rifles and we think we can convince customers to consider these rifles seriously. The cost difference is not that significant and is monumentally different when you compare features, quality and pedigree.

Every product on the market and perhaps especially true in the firearms market, represents a compromise of some sort. We will be offering true custom rifles again where you can get what you want and the price will reflect it. The Legendary Arms Works rifles then in fact have to be offered with some compromises in reality. We are continually looking at where that takes us to balance the features offered, our production capabilities, speed and of course price. Feedback like we get here and other high use forums give us the contact with the market that we seek. Twists rates are important, no question. There is a move to shoot longer, heavier bullets in the industry especially for the long range aficionados and we understand that…many of us at the company shoot rifles and cartridges in that sphere too. We started with what are considered to be “industry standards” and will go from there. You have seen that we are being responsive with the twist rate change for the 243, so I think we have demonstrated our commitment to change but our decisions will be driven by data which may include customer opinion as well as technical and engineering research and will be done with care and thought.

Thank you the Forum to allow us to participate, we welcome you input.

Paul Reed

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Paul,

Thanks to you and team LAW for being open to input/feedback.
Now - get to work. laugh


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Your research should bear out the information that a .22-250 and a .243(as well as other chamberings) will perform better across all spectrums with a faster twist rate.A 1:12 twisted .22-250 is only a "C" hair better than 1:14 companies are using as standard. A wagon with wooden wheels was once standard transportation but it's now history due to knowledge learned and modern engineering
There are two customer bases you will be marketing towards and potentially selling to, those that are savvy and those that have not a clue,If you cater towards those that are savvy you grab that market share as well as the clueless,it doesn't work the other way around.
Choose wisely and good luck


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