Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Why Do You All Make Bullet Performance So CONFUSING? LOL!

How confusing can Nosler Partition be;)

Just being the devil's advocate and giving this as an example of what I am talking about....

The posts above is the "norm" for posts concerning the Partition .........but....

There is RIGHT NOW a thread on the same website this thread is where more than one is stating the BT has attributes superior to the Partition.

It IS about a particular bore size though.

I don't recall them saying either has a different performance style but just that the BT out performs the Partition. ("Small hole in, small hole out" is the quote I recall from 30 minutes ago for the partition.....but I don't see that posted often either)

On top of all the information we all find one fact remains at least to me.

Shoot the one you have faith in........regardless who says what.

Confidence is a killer when it comes to such in our equipment, IMHO.

The other fact is.......there are too many dang kinds of bullets!!!

God Bless

A good bit more than a 45 caliber flatnose cast bullet made out of wheelweights....

Not confusing to me at all. Buy Barnes and am done. No need for anything else, well except for my subsonic, which is actually a barnes basically, just not made by them...

I love it when its not complicated.

Getting two holes is never a confusing proposition.

I've never had any issues with Partitions killing well, but I've seen some less than stellar tracking jobs in thick cover that made me think a larger entrance hole was needed....or a bullet that makes an exit.

Luckily, after a while, the critter bleeds from the mouth....

You know the secret. Use the bullet you have faith in. That's it. No magic. No voodoo.

WRT the sometimes heated discussions that happen here, just relax, sit back and watch the fun. The entertainment you get is cheaper than pay per view.

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"..you must consider the atmospherical air affects of the air on bullets in the air and stuff..."

"...Did you know that gamma rays can cause instability in copperized bullets in a dibilitated ionasphere?"

'...The Gel-O Bullet (a monolithic gel bullet) stays together, but mushrooms as it enters, much the same as a child's rubber ball flattens when bounced off a wall. It deforms slightly, but the energy pushes it forward and it doesn�t come apart. This creates a wide wound channel. The material is flexible, but tough!"
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If you consider who is having the discussion the confusion is well understood.


Do people who chime in consider

No shot is perfect, but you can have a perfect impact
Shots, especially follow up shots are rarely the shot we want to take

So do we describe how we want a bullet to perform based on reality? Most people in my experience do not.

Some people that shoot many, many critters and have via real life experience pick better bullets - however some never adjust so even these folks can let you down.

+1

I was going mention that the answer was created in 1948.......

I usually tend to agree with Bob and this time is no exception. The simple fact is deer aren't that hard to kill. The worst thing is to have too tough a bullet - one that does minimal internal damage. I've killed deer with a bunch of bullets from numerous calibers (plus bows, shotguns, muzzleloaders, various revolvers and pistols) and all the commonly avaiable bullets launched at various velocities. In my mind, a very simple algorithm exists:2900 ft/sec or less pick a cup/core of your choice, 2900+ choice wisely and consider shot placement, distance, bullet integrity.

As to BC,it is a factor if that situation presents itself AND you're capable of pulling it off. For 90+% of hunting, I'd venture most wouldn't notice the difference with round nose bullets. I may even have used RN bullets a time or two - its hard to find a spitzer for the 45-70.

For critters bigger than deer, start with the considerations outlined above for 2900+ - even if your bullet is traveling much slower. Bigger animals = bigger bones, greater bullet travel distance. Bullet integrity is a more serious consideration.

I've made bullet selection simple.
Nosler Partitions work for everything I shoot.
They may not be perfect, maybe not even the best, but the are good enough.
Same with my rifles, when they reach a point where I am confident they will get the job done, I quit looking.

All really good additions gang.

IMHO we "complicate it" way too much and way too often.

BC is a much heralded thing that is at the top of the heap in advertising and advertising is always of interest and some of us want to jump on the next "new and improved" wagon.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that of course other than the times that such, somehow, results in opinions that the "old time" bullets no longer work and work well.

I also agree on the mentioned categorizing of which type for which velocities but my own is slightly different being impact velocities at expected ranges and MY preference to not have such anywhere CLOSE to the advertised "minimum velocity" manufacturers state as such for a given bullet. In photos and in tests of my own, few that they be, what the manufacturers CALL expanding and what I CALL expanding is not the same thing.

All this thread totals up to is the fact that, as usual, a lot of us don't agree. Lots of things affect what we see and what we take stock in BUT it is tough to ignore the fact that ALL of them "work" at least the majority of the time or there wouldn't be so many swearing by them.

What works in our cartridge of choice, game of choice, range of shots taken will differ even if we had a literal twin out there shooting identical equipment.

Much ado about nothing???? Maybe, maybe not. Being old and old fashioned I simply cannot ignore things that have "worked" and worked quite well for decades. The reputation rounds like the 270 Winchester were MADE shooting these old cup and core bullets of mention.

Something to be said for that I believe. YMMV.

God Bless and thanks to all contributing.


PS Mule Deer had an article on BC and of course, I learned much from it. Here it is for those not having yet read it.

http://www.bergerbullets.com/articles/john-barsness-ballistic-coefficient.pdf

A Slice of History � Tikka, God of the Thunderpole
By Nelford Beardsley

Many, many years ago, when the world was flat and man hunted to eat, come Tikka, god of the Thunderpole. He appeared out of the sky, or so the story goes, to rid the mortal world of the forges that tempted man and stole his money. Them blacksmiths was evil, tellin� folks about the miraculous killin� properties of the arrowheads and bullets hand forged in their smithys.

Yep, things was about to heat up for them nasty blacksmiths. And you know what? The expression �forgeries� come from that time, when folks was fooled into believin� that smiths could �forge� magical steels to kill animals and slay man�s emen, ememnies.

Anyhow, Tikka was your typical heroic figure - tall, Nordic, with piercin� blue eyes. He was reckoned to be seven feet tall, with golden hair and a lean, muscled body. He surely was the legendary hunter-god that mortal men spoke of with reverence. He was also someone you didn�t want to cross!

See, Tikka was POed because of what all the other gods was talkin� about when they went to their weekly meetin�. They discussed all the usual stuff - world creations, slaying dragons, lookin� after humans and crushin� evil entities. But one particular week they was all sittin� around discussin� what you call �congers�. Congers is whatever a god or demi-god creates when they cast a spell or use a charm.

I�ll give you an example of a conger. You remember that evil Greek lady Medusa? She was the person who turned regular folks to stone if you looked into her eyes. Once upon a time, she was a beautiful young thing, but Athena turned her into that ugly, snaked haired grumpy person you read about in school. Medusa was what you call a conger, okay?

It�s all pretty confusin� so far, right? Don�t worry, it gets easier.

So Tikka showed up somewhere in the flatlands and called for all the mortal lords to meet.

�I call upon the lords of the world - Whinchestur, Remmingtun; Baron Lee of Enfield, the Earls; Savage and Whittwurth, and governor of the Canadas � Sir Dudley Dooright of the Mounties. Drop what you�re doin� and come hither to me!� (I just loves that olde English talk).

This here is what you call a recap. So far, we got an angry god � Tikka - callin� for a gatherin� of the leaders of the humans - assorted lords, earls and such. The meetin� has gonna happen somewhere in the flatlands of earth - probably Kansas.

So all these human bosses come together at the appointed place, and when they got there, Tikka was pissed! I wasn�t there, but it was said that he laid into them guys real hard!

�What fool would allow an evil forger into their kingdom? Who believes the stories of the mystical bullets that kill by magic? Some of your citizens have been duped into believing that game is gutted and quartered when the bullet or arrow strikes!�

�My Lord Tikka...�

�Shut up! I have given you iron and galena. These are the creations of the gods that bring food to your table, not black magic!�

�But Lord, the Forge of Knoslur is known far and wide for producing golden projectiles that will strike down animals from half a furlong distant!�

�Five chains distant? Are you mad? Tis the skill of the hunter that makes this so, not a piece of golden wrapped lead! My lords, you have fallen under the same spell that blights the common man.�

�What of the sacred monolithic, made by Baarnes Forge, my lord? It is so tough, not even Mj�lnir, Thor�s hammer, can destroy it!�

�What nonsense! You would compare something made by man to Thor�s hammer? Still, I ask you, why would ye need a god�s hammer to fell a deer?�

Well sir, them human earls and knights just looked at each other, red faced. They slowly realized that they was lied to, and that got them really, really angry!

�Humans cannot rely on lies and congering to feed themselves. No metal has supernatural powers. A keen eye and a steady hand win the day. If you truly love your subjects, you will give them the skills to hunt. Teach them how to stalk and kill. Help them learn the way of the land and animals so that they may feed their families. This is what great leaders do!�

So, all them human dukes and earls talked through the night, and come up with a plan to help their people and rid the land of the evil smithys. And within a few months, them forges was gone and people was happy, doin� what people did back then � huntin� and wallowin� in mud.

That is a really cool story. It has a message. Whatcha call a parable. In the olde days, they figured magic could help them. These days, a lot of folks figure that money buys them success. But it�s like Lord Tikka said, a steady hand and a keen eye is all a person needs.

It�s time for you folks to ponder on that for a spell.

The only time I ever pay attention to BC is shooting gophers in Montana, they are kinda small way out there. Muddy

At least we can now look our grandfather's in the eye and say we know better, because they never had colored and coated bullets or little plastic hats on them.

We know everything now. They deer are terrified of us, which is why they hide more than they used to in granddad's day.

Except when the corn feeder goes off.

Maybe we could put a bell or triangle on the feeder to officiate the commencement of the meal?

Along with a bar code on each deer, to indicate whether it's been genetically modified.

Maybe some romantic music,you know,to make the meal....special.

MD,

Good article on BC. Puts my mind at ease knowing that I don't need to get rid of my .257 Weatherby and replace it with something that shoots bullets with a .700 BC.

Na. Color coded ear tags so they are visible at greater distances. No surprises that way.

The bar code would be more useful after dropping the deer to scan with your SUPER smart phone so "trophy" fees can be automatically deducted from your bank account.

Hope no one patents all these great ideas before those of you who came up with them can capitalize on such.

God bless

I remember hearing about this Steve. Wasn't it found on a parchment in one of the caves of Morduur -- the Revelation to Tikka.