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Ready-- thankyou..
Biebs-- No I can't change dandles, don't have tools and experience for that. Most that I do is cut them and straighten and weld up. a real amature job
Yes changing handles csn be done by an experienced smith.ED
Ed Hubel
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Ok I did find a way to change to straight sporty handle on Enfields, which is to cut them off before the dogleg bend an inch away from the bolt body, then I'm able to weld ona nice handle extension I found.
Our 585 caliber is modern bolt action continuance of the 577 Nitro Express rimmed case, that many big game hunters like. Usually set up in double rifles. It has an interesting history, from the old 24ga size to 577NE, to the 585 Nyati with the picture of Ross Seyfreid shooting one in a Ruger #1 under recoil knocking his shooting glasses off, to the Trex of internet fame knocking guys over, to our 585HE the strongest yet.
The 577NE is an offshoot of the 24 gauge caliber, only they went eventially to brass cases. Back in the 1860-70s, starting first with short cases and black powder, cases built like shotgun cases, called the 577 Snider, then going to coiled brass cases, still with black powder, then on to drawn brass cases, called 577 BP Express. then to 3" and other longer cases with smokeless. The Snider started out with a bullet of .570" diameter and through the progression to the 577NE bullet diameter ended up at .585". This general bore diameter of cartridge guns and muzzle loaders, it is really interesting on how they developed and were used by military and then hunters over the years. The Snider was necked down to make the 577-450 , a military round used all over the British Empire, by the tens of millions.
Bases of both 24ga and 577NE are about the same. Now we have made a 24ga FH, a slight regression to earlier times, by taking 577NE brass, and reducing rim diameter to 24ga specs. Two minute job. And stamp the caseheads 24 ga.
For shotgun upgrading in power and range, It is all about increasing the power in easy to find brass cases, stronger actions, and finding reasonable price rifled barrels. Same barrels we found for 585, work for 24ga. The 577NE brass we make 24ga drawn cases from, for example are about a third the cost of 600NE brass, or getting turned 24ga cases made. We could use 24ga thin cases but they are a pain, expand way too much, with slug loads which makes resizing without crumpling cases a problem.
Info about the power in types of guns normally set up with 24ga FH, break actions, bolt shotguns,etc. In thin brass 24ga case, 440gr slug goes 1500, with about 2000 ft lbs, that's in a 2.5" Magtech brass case. Now using the better, heavier 3" brass we got, we can increase speed to 1750 fps increasing energy 50%, going to 2000 fps about doubles energy. And going to 2300 which good brass holds ok, in heavy barrel gun, gets us near 2 1/2 times the energy. About 37-40,000 psi which the actions hold in this smaller diameter case, compared to 12 gauge size. So makes relatively smaller bore shotgun, 24ga, with 458WIN power. .Perfect with Minie bullets. Perfect for deer and hogs, bear, etc.
Great for slug hunting in shotgun only areas. We mark barrels 24ga and cases 24. A decent case that is complimentary to our 585HE....Ed
Ed Hubel
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Here is a different look at 585 sabots holding 458cal bullets. Sabots hold leafd as well as jacketed. Here is a long turned streamlined bullet in our 585. Anyone wanting to import barrels, actions, cases, etc into Canada from here can work through Prophet River Firearms in Lloydminster, AB. The here being the US, as well as our group with barrels, dies, cases, and McGowen with .585 barrels in stock, CH4D with 585HE dies in stock, gunshops with # 31 shellholders. And later few retail outlets setup with cases in stock... . Ed
Ed Hubel
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Another application for our 585 HE is for guys with the 14.5mm PTRDs, to use our case with chamber insert. In many places 14.5 cases are scarce, real expensive, as well as most 14.5mm cases being steel are not the easiest to resize/reload. Our case sizes like regular cases and can be easily reloaded many times. And in a PTRD with almost a 5 foot long barrel can get 650gr spitzer bullet to the same speed the 14.5mm gets a 900 gr using 3 times as much powder. 3300 fps. Or get a 900gr at 2800. Great possibilities for fun shooting. And tactical use in a place where it would be useful to reload in the operations field, where steel cases are scarce. A 100 cases do over 2000 reloads. I like Enfields to put our 585HEs in, for reasonable cost guns. . Here is inexpensive way to fancy up the Enfield Bolt handle by cutting the dogleg part of the old handle off and welding on inexpensive contoured handles I found, one of which is like Ruger 77 handle, one on the right . Something even a novice like me can do..... A lot of guys are crazy about CEB bullets. Here are light 450gr ones in our 24ga FH. The hollowpoint can range in weight 450gr to 700gr.. The 24ga FH is nice complement to our 585HE for the shotgun only deer hunters... Ed
Ed Hubel
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For lightweight plinking, deer hunting, etc, in 585HE as well as 24ga FH here is picture of 58cal Hornady sabot that holds .451/.452" light bullets 225 to 300 gr. A way to shoot targets economically. Low recoil but a big bang and satisfaction. That sabot is one made for ML, but with .452" bullet in it is a real tight fit in brass cases, to stay in place and give good ignition. A 250 gr bullet would go about mach 4 with a top load.. Here is what 585 bull barrel, target blank looks like, 1 5/8" OD and 32" long. It'll go in heavy action of some kind. 4th one from the left. The one in yellow sleave on top, is a heavy contoured one with muzzle of .980" ..The 5th, 6th, 7th blanks on bottom are straight 1.375" 585 regular twist blanks. One in paper wrapper is slow twist 585 barrel...Ed
Last edited by hubel458; 12/31/14.
Ed Hubel
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Here is picture, nice cast bullet I like for the 585HE and 24ga FH. It is .585" diameter and 650 gr and these particular ones are a hard lead alloy, plus they've been heatreated. They are about as hard as copper jacketed softs. These have a flat base, and fairly streamlined.. But to penetrate good and do great damage to game or target they can be soft lead and hollowbase like Minie Bullets. Here is picture of timber drilled through with .585 soft lead Minie from 585HE. Picture is the back of 6x6 timbers where Minie bullets came out. Ed
Ed Hubel
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In Canada there are 3 guys there now setting up 585HEs, and one setting up 24ga FH. Another friend setting up a 585HE handed out a bunch of cases and info sheets at the SCI convention. We are getting some more reamers made. Some more dies sent here. Another pallet load of cases coming. Here is picture of a light spitzer bullet in the 24ga FH case, will work in 585 also. Good for hunting and medium range target work. Here is picture of 585HE we did in the FBW with regular two piece stock.We put a tenon on the forearm to wedge into the front of the action below the barrel and a tight barrel band on the front. Ed
Ed Hubel
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Here is comparison of our 585HE and Trex case, and while we have barrels of cases and more coming and many available in stock in AUS, many are finding Trex cases scarce... Here is picture of a neat falling block that could work for our 585HE with little work, the Wickcliff. Here is picture of the singlestack mag box we built for Enfields fitted to the bottom of BBK action.Very little changing and it fits a lot of different actions, as a fixed magazine, with its own feed lips,and we load from the top.Ed
Ed Hubel
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Here is picture of a 585HE we did in a Mauser 98 as a singleshot test gun. We used a composite stock we adapted to fit action. Weighted to 12 lbs. And speaking of singleshots a fellow in the Yukon is just finishing up one in a Ruger #1. Here is one reason to like 585 calibers is bullet varieties, this picture is only about half the bullets and slugs we know of, and most can easily found. Ed
Ed Hubel
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There is couple 585 videos on Swann Gunsmithing's Facebook site; Of our 585HE in first Ruger #1, that was done in Australia, set up for the poster Tankhunter on the AR big bore forums. That gun killed the first buffalo that I posted picture of above. You can go direct to the page and click on the videos to watch the test firings.. https://www.facebook.com/swanbarrels/videosHere is picture our 585HE in a Montana PH action in a MPI stock, with the style of a CZ stock, that a guy is setting up. The stock will be finished brown and metal finished with a Gun Kote finish...Ed
Ed Hubel
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One of the first of modern 585 caliber wildcats, since WW2, the 575 Miller Greiss Magnum, was first in records in the fifties, It was made from BMG brass shortened to 2.70" long and necked up from 50 cal to .585" with what looks li\ke a little sharper shoulder.. They rebated the rim quite a ways to .618" to maybe fit 98 Mauser bolt.Used a special action. Listed as a shooting 750gr bullet about 2400 fps. It holds about 150gr of ball powder under a 750 gr bullet, maybe little less than 3" 50cal spotter case, where our 585HE holds 180gr under a 750gr'. We made one for experimenting on a full length BMG case.With rim left same as the base and would need a BMG sized bolt and action. I'm glad to be a big bore wildcatter, and happy to be in the company of big bore nuts, old and new. Years ago when guys did big wildcats they took what was available, to rework, and maybe they could have used the 3" spotter case if they could have found couple barrels full. But it takes a lot of work to reform cases that much, with the multiple dies, multiple annealings and case trimming and extreme reworking of regular rifle actions, which is why I like our cases, simple and straight, any regular long bolt action, falling block, break action, etc, the 585 good for dozen or more heavy loadings, moderate loads, last forever.. In making our 585HE we made it a size, a new belted size, to fit regular size guns, not BMG actions,that didn't have to be used from a tripod, and could be put in a favorite, the Ruger #1, other falling blocks, without taking metal out of the feed trough. And to get the same and much more powder space like a cut back, real short, fat, BMG wildcatted cases to 585, we made longer case and worked with a group buy to get a factory run. We thank gun nuts for the help. Here is picture from the great site, cartridgecollector dot net, of the M&G Mag .Ed
Ed Hubel
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Probably first 375 caliber cartridge made from 585HE necked down, the 375 Warlord. Guy did a real nice job, with what looks similiar to a Weatherby style shoulder. Kinda outdoes Weatherby & Cheytac. We have cases with no headstamps for wildcatters. First picture I got sent me today off of facebook and this one is from the great sniperforums. Another fellow is planning on shortening the 585HE to maybe 2.4", for use Marlins and Henrys, and other leverguns, redoing their 45-70s. With the belt they will have good headspace control. Without a rim that takes up circular space, say like our 24ga FH, a 585 bore, but which is perfect with a rim for break actions like our 24ga FH in a Magtech...Ed
Ed Hubel
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Sorry to be away so long. Health and money problems. Here is how the top of the singlestack magazine looks that we made to use in Enfields and other bolt actions. The lips that hold the cases are springy, and we can load it from the top. The inside of action below feed rails are relieved a little and that allows feed lips to move and work ok. Here are couple 24ga FHs break actions, a CBC with monoblocked 585 barrel in it, and a guys NEF he had a 585 barrel monoblocked in. The 585 barrels are perfect fit for 24ga, and 585 Minie Bullets are a perfect for barrel and 24ga case fit. Another matter---It seems strange for me to ask for help when I ask guys on the net for help at times. . But I really am in a bind. That is truth, Our small income disappeared from our farms truck garden business, as my my knees are shot and can't hardly walk, I can't do field work, etc. And the wife's lung condition got so bad she can't work.. So we finally had to quit that, but were and are in debt. We need little extra money to try to keep our health fixed up and pay bunch of back bills and utilities. As well as needed for traveling to doctors, treatments,drugs, etc. Could you all maybe get together with others on these forums and kinda take up a collection to help get me out of my troubles and debt. Like 10 or so bucks each put into our paypal account as gifts. And if you want to mail it, contact me to get you my mailing address. The Paypal email is je gunownerstv.com Best Regards- Ed PS-- I really need help. Not astronomical amounts, but fairly fast. Just a little from each to help. A quick boost so to speak. We never made anything on the 12ga FH, etc, work and research. The little coming from sale of 585 brass, dies, barrels,etc, goes to pay to the places, where rest of the money is owed, for getting them made..Ed
Ed Hubel
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Another action we found/researched that isn't priced 3 grand
or more that will work great for our 585HE is the
Stiller bolt action that is made for Cheytac based
cases. Less than 1200 dollars. Compares in size
to the Montana PH actions( four of them) we
have put the 585 in.Ed
Ed Hubel
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Here is picture of 375 Warlord next to our 585 case he made it from. He is going to make couple later necked down to 416, and 458. There is another guy working on doing one necked down to 357 wildcat. Here is a picture of our poster Biebs on AR, 585 HE, in a MPI stock. He used a big Enfield action, with a fancy jeweled bolt. We found couple other big actions for our 585, that can even feed really long overall length loaded cases, like 4.5" long or more, if you are using long pointed bullets for real long range target and hunting work. One is Lawton 8000 Cheytac action, and the other is Stiller Cheytac actions made similiar, justa newer version. Both actions come in 1.45" diameter and a 1.60" diameter recievers. And Vestals Gunsmithing in Virginia does great work, decent prices, has these actions and will build you fancy 585 HEs. .. He has, working with another guys mag box setup, setup an extra long, good working, single stack, center feed, magazine..He has our 585 HE reamer on hand, we have barrels, cases, and reloading dies..Ed
Ed Hubel
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Here is couple different setups our guys checking for our 585HE in a long, Lawton Cheytac action. First laminated thumbhole stock. Second in a Hogue Compstock. The action can mount a scope rail like shown on the table in 1st picture or a receiver sight in 2nd picture. The scope rail is a piccatiny,. if you need long range work. The stocks used were wide ones for REM long actions, just add recoil block ahead of recoil inleting for the longer action, drill new screw hole Open the stock forward to original bolt hole for longer cases and mag. About Enfields for our case, one of my favorites, Some don't like the sporterizing, welding bottom metal straight. Many think straightening is a huge job needing special jigs, etc, Not really, just use one for a jig with a bolt, to weld on the straight extension, Do top weld, then cut old extension that is under off with a thin cutting wheel, then weld bottom. When we bolt the short piece on the one we are straightening, we grind the short slant off so the added piece lays on there flat. The one you cut off can be used as the top extension for the next one!!! Just keep on building...Ed
Ed Hubel
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Here is picture of another neat sporterizing deal for Enfields. On those without rear bridge pocket welded up, we just mill down and shape it so debth of the pocket matches bottom section of weaver rail and screw or epoxy it in. Shape to drive in hole tight. Can use as a rear scope ring mount or mount for peep sight like a compact UTG sight... If we have a welded up Enfield rear bridge, then we can use sight like on this gun a guy is doing. Has a rosewood laminate stock. He will have it checkered, sanded, with fancy finish. Here is a fancy stocked 24ga FH built on a NEF, built by a guy in Canada. Its straight back, high comb stock, handles recoil great... Ed More about 585 BB short case for lever guns, pistols,AR Uppers, Work in 71s, later 1886s, Henry steel frames made for 45-70. One guy is putting one in single shot action set up with Contender style pistol grip for testing in long rifle barrel, to simulate pistol recoil..Be very brisk recoil in a case that holds 110 gr powder under a light Minie bullet Maybe work in a Rossi Judge with heavy barrel. Or rolling block rifles and pistols....Ed
Ed Hubel
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Here is a picture from the back, of a big Lawton action that our 585HE fits in nice. Scope rail on there is tapered for long range shooting. Here is what our wildcatter buddy is making from our 585HE brass to see how they look and experiment with. He is getting reamers, dies, and gun setup first for the 375. In some ways big bore shotguns and rifles are sexy. By looking at the shape of the fire and smoke cloud.... Thanks for picture, to the great NitroExpress Forums site. Ed
Ed Hubel
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A poster reading our threads said '' I'm slowly becoming a recoilapheliac''.. That is neat term , and very glad that folks are catching the big bore fever. Here is a simple, yet neat peep sight we can use on the rear sporterized bridges of Enfields, works on other rear bridges also.Including shotguns. I like peep sights the best for most shooting. They also come with flat bottoms also for bridges and receivers that are flat on top. Another picture of the 585 HE one of our guys put in the MPI stock.. On straight sided cases like our 585 HE the die set has a mouth expander die to make it easy to insert bullets. The die flares the mouth, but I always felt that doing what is really a relative relatively sharp flare, and then the slight roll crimping the same area of the case into a groove on the bullet or slug, shortens case life. So I just use expander plug out of the die, by hand, using just the bottom of of the expander plug and just push it in a little, wobble it around a small amount, bullet goes in ok, case mouths last longer, good for dozens of loads, with moderate hunting and target loads.Only takes a few seconds and less work that has to be done in the press ... Ed
Ed Hubel
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Here is picture of a hard plastic molded shotgun case, holding a slug, without crimping, a company is experimenting with. This one with light slug supposed to do over 2000 fps. Here is video by Corlanes Sporting, Dawson Creek, BC, CAN. Known as, Rocky Mtn Rifles, video on Youtube of them testing our 585 HE in a barreled action, they are building for a guy. They are shooting it into their big bullet trap with test load.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vzQjRGfT1A Allan and Grant Swan in Australia are building 585HE for a guy, the second they built. First one killed the buff pictured earlier . AHR and Vestals will make folks here in US a 585 HE. Here is another view of a Lawton action big enough for 585HE.. Here is picture of Rossi SS with 585 barrel mono-blocked into it, chambered for our 585 BB 2.17" case, to do testing in a light rifle with just pistol grip to simulate the case in pistols. Others going to put case in leverguns, autoloaders. We got plenty of cases Ed
Ed Hubel
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