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John,

Have read a few of your articles and posts on runout and sizers. Am thinking of partial FL sizing using either a Forster or Redding die, just bumping the shoulder back .002 or so. This is for a 375 h&h setup to shoot longer range/do everything, not a DG only rifle etc., so longer range accuracy matters. (Planning on 250 TTSX's over 4064 as I can't get RL15, and TTSX's because they seem a harder bullet and they are a little more available to me than accubonds)

In response to one of your articles about how standard expanders pull the necks out of alignment because the body is not supported at the point of expansion, I noted that Forster sets their expander higher up the die to give the case more alignment when pulling over the expander to reduce or eliminate this problem.

Have you seen this to be the case, and will it make that much of a difference in a factory rifle, such that I would buy a Forster die seperately from the Redding seater (can't use the Forster seater because I need to seat compressed loads, and their seater is not good at this according to them). It would be cheaper to just buy the redding set, but if it will make a difference, then I'll split and buy the Forster sizer and Redding seater.

Thanks!

Last edited by catorres1; 01/16/14.
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JB:

With any luck, I will soon be the owner of a vintage Savage 99 in .250.
I've read (possibly something by you) that new .250 brass ain't so hot. If so, what's the best brass for forming .250s?
I've read internet chatter that says .22-250 cases come out short and also that 6.5 Creedmores can be run into a .250 die and work okay. What would you recommend?
I tried comparing the SAAMI drawings for the .250 and 6.5 and the length to the neck/shoulder junction of the 6.5 looked too short.

Thanks.


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I haven't tried resizing 6.5 Creedmoor brass but it should work very well. It is a little shorter in the neck/shoulder junction but I would guess the resizing of the thicker case body would push the shoulder forward a little.

I haven't had any trouble resizing .22-250's to .250 Savage, but if that turns out to be a problem around 15 grains of Unique, with enough uncooked Cream of Wheat on top to fill the case to the base of the neck, plus a "wad" made of paper towel or a medium-sized bore patch, will fireform the .22-250's to your .250 Savage chamber.


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John,

Do you have a brand preference for the .22/250 cases? Do you run them through the .250 die before lighting off the Unique/c.o.w. Load?

I did win the auction for the 99. Looks like maybe a 1950ish model with a 2.5 Lyman Alaskan All Weather in Stith mounts. Very Retro! Might have to buy a red coat (already got the Bean boots). I hope the scope's okay, but if not, there's always the Marble's tang sight.

Thanks for the help.

Gary

Last edited by Pappy348; 04/02/14.

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Yes Sir ; Over the years I have greatly enjoyed and benefited from your articles.
I also started reloading with a Lee Loader. Loading for my 303 British. I've done quite a bit of loading with Lee Loaders for carts up to 458 Win Mag. . . I also very much appreciate your down to earth approach to things like how to get brass for my then new 6.5 Creedmoor. The round I have decided is the ultimate Interior Alaska Winter cartridge. Coupled with a Ruger M77 mk2 All Weather Hawkeye and the right bullet for the game shot.

The COW method works incredibly well and gives the benefit of semi dry fire practice out doors :-) .
Thanks for sharing your articles.

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John,
What is going on with Speer's Deep Curl bullets? The ones I purchased had a note inside the box not to use them unless there is Speer load data for the cartridge you're reloading.

So I called them and the individual I talked with from Speer was
concerned if I loaded these bullets (Speer hasn't gotten around to providing load data for the 338-06). Of course, he also refused to tell me why or what the danger is.

You wouldn't happen to know what they mean by "conventional reloading data... should not be used to load DeepCurl bullets?

The last I checked, it is always preferable to use data from the bullet and/or powder mfr. And that is about as "conventional" as it gets.

I'm using IMR4320, IMR 4064, & Hodgdon's Hybrid 100V for 225gr
(.338) bullets; Std LR primers and Norma brass. My target MV
is 2575 on the low side to 2600 on the high side.

Thanks,
DS

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I dunno either. Used to know somebody who'd worked there for years (in fact he wrote the last manual) but he retired and many things at Speer seem to be considered top-secret these days.

A reasonable guess, however, would be that Deep Curls produce somewhat more pressure than other bullets of the same weight, whether due to the relatively soft cores, longer bearing surface, or whatever, so might be a little touchy when used with data for other bullets. If they resulted in less pressure, there wouldn't any concern. But as I noted, don't really know.

Do know they list data for Deep Curls on their website, but it doesn't seem all that different than data for other bullets from other companies.


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Mr. Barsness, I picked up in a trade over 500 .224 FMJ that are Moly coated, I have heard horror stories about moly and barrel pitting. Should I shoot 'em and go on, try to remove the moly coat, or trade 'em, what say you, has moly been a problem in your experience? They would be shot in a 10" .22 Hornet Contender barrel for IHSMA Field pistol and NRA Hunter pistol, so they would not be a normal Hornet velocities.


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bcraft,

The only real "problem" I've seen with moly-coated bullets is they make other bullets shoot weird out of the same barrel--unless you clean the moly out before shooting other bullets, which isn't all that hard.

The stuff can apparently be hydroscopic, which is what causes the supposed pitting, but since I live in dry Montana I've never seen that aspect of it.


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Thank you.


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Is there any way to access the links at the beginning of this thread? They all seem to be dead.

Thanks


"An archer sees how far he can be from a target and still hit it, a bowhunter sees how close he can get before he shoots." It is certainly easy to use that same line of thinking with firearms. -- Unknown
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Originally Posted by RevMike
Is there any way to access the links at the beginning of this thread? They all seem to be dead.

Thanks


I'd like to read them too.

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All the links are no go for me too


I would like to read them


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Originally Posted by tedthorn
All the links are no go for me too


I would like to read them


and I as well.

God Bless


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John I shoot a 220 swift; would like to get a way from imr 4064,shooting 55gr bullets what powder could I go to? Thank you for any help!

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Can't access links either.

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IMO as not-a-gunwriter, and definitely in the category of picking nits, issues surrounding scope mounting relative to the shooter and rifle are most important relative to getting a well aimed shot off quickly in the field from a standing position.

With this being the goal, regarding "cant" I agree with Iclimb. The issue is achieving consistency consistent with minimizing time-to-well-aimed trigger pull.

First, note that with most people with most factory rifles, the action of a rifle will be somewhat canted when mounted quickly to its most comfortable position on the shoulder. Canted or not, this position is that most easily repeatable with haste and most amenable to being locked into muscle memory.

The only way to insure the action is uncanted in this position is to fit the stock to the shooter to compensate. In my case, about 1/2" of cast-off with an additional 1/2" of toe-out cant in the butt stock trues the action of a quickly mounted rifle to gravity. Most of us most of the time make do with a rifle not fit with precision to our body. This means it most likely will be canted to some degree when quickly mounted to its most comfortable position.

Second, human eye is really, really good, at judging verticality of a straight line and does so unconsciously. If you doubt this claim, tilt a hung picture slightly and watch how people who may enter the room react. Rotate a scope slightly in its mounts and you create a powerful unconscious force that will cause the rifle to be canted by the shooter until the reticle is true with gravity. If this eye-induced rifle cant is at odds with any body-fit-induced cant (as it is likely to be if the scope reticle is blindly trued to the bore), achieving repeatable aim will be more difficult and take longer.

IMO, the rifle should be allowed to fit the body the way it most naturally, cant or no cant. The scope should then be trued (rotated in the mounts) until it is perceived as vertical. This makes the info from the eyes conform to info from the muscles. I think all this allows a practiced shooter to get an aimed shot off about 1/2 second quicker than otherwise might be the case.


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One of the major issues that has plagued reloaders in the past 5 years has been the high price of bullets. Yes there are ways around this by casting, buying from Campfire members and so on. But the real crunch has been the high price of bullets as the single most expensive item in the process. (assuming you use your brass multiple times.) In 2010 the prices rose due to the price of commodity copper which peaked at approximately $4.60/lb. Today the prices are back down to $2.60/lb, which is at 2006 levels, yet there has not been any decrease in the price of the bullets from the big makers. Currently unless absolutely necessary I am not buying new bullets and slowly working off my inventory, hoping at some point we will see some relief. Maybe there are those here that have some insight into this situation.


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Thanks for your many years of fine work! And there actually is a question here.

As to "affordable reloading", I think I paid about $7 for a medium sized, quite dusty, mystery box weighing about 50# at an estate auction. The auctioneer was being cute. But the departed had been an avid shooter and I guessed that even if it was just lead, such a heavy box had to contain at least $7 worth of good. Inside was a disassembled (but OK) Rock Chucker press and about 1,500 vintage 1960's Nosler, Speer, and Hornady bullets, most in unopened boxes. Not bad!

Maybe 500 bullets were various 30 caliber bullets which kept me in cheap plinking ammo for several years and the rest were 100, 117, and 120 grain 25 caliber rifle rounds. I did not then own anything in 25 caliber and those bullets kept nagging at me as having a crying need to be shot!

So, as you might guess, maybe 10 years later, a few weeks ago I journeyed in a blizzard to another estate (gun) auction in a small farming town. Judging by the price tags on gunshow tables at least, I got a bidding better than BOGO on a pair of uncut, untapped, and unswiveled 1899s in 25 caliber that cleaned up real nice. One is an A in 25-36 (1910) complete with a Lyman 1A and #5 Combination globe sights (special order) and the other is F (a take-down) in 250-3000 (1921) with standard sights. Did I mention Lyman dies at $6 per set?

Anyway, you can imagine how excited I was at finally being able to cash in my $7 investment (less press) investment in 25 caliber bullets.

The 25-35 shoots beautifully, albeit anemically, with all the several versions in my inventory. But much to my chagrin, the 250 will make a thumbnail group just starting to keyhole at 50 yards and prints oblong holes about improved cylinder at 100. 100 Grain Nosler Solid Bases almost make round holes at 50 yards but still upset by 100.

Anyway, only after swearing at the targets did I recall your comments about twist rates in the early 250-3000's. Mine truly is about 1 in 14" while the 25-35 (which handles even the 120 grain just fine) is probably > 1 in 10". I guess I gotta buy some #!&%% lighter weight (but much more expensive) 25 caliber bullets for the 250-3000.

So, my question: What bullet do you recommend as stabilizing well in a slow twist 250-3000? Ideally, it will be accurate, tough enough for a White Tail, and CHEAP!




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The 87-grain Speer Hot-Cor spitzer is designed for that very purpose.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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