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Does anyone own a Drahtaar? My son caught the goose and duck and upland fever and we are considering another dog. This breed has intrigued me for 20 years.

We are looking at labs as well
Our lab is a true family dog, she doesn't like water or loud noises!

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...rsatile_Dog_training_referen#Post9354249

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Yup, I have a couple...

Thanks for the info. If we decide to purchase another dog, I will have the training plan in place and then purchase a dog. I have been reading about these dogs for over 20 years and now that I'm considering working a little bit less, it may be a good time. A client of mine who trains and shows GSP's and is very familiar with VHD's offered to help training. I also want to work with a trainer who has trained this breed or similar. I will be meeting with a Connecticut breeder/trainer in the next couple of weeks and see if she has worked with the DD. I know she has worked with Labs and pointers from what I have read.

My sample set is only 1.....and I am not trying to be critical. But don't spend too much time researching a trainer who has specifically trained a DD.

I'd spend those miles looking for a DD breeder or owner. Spend some time around the dog 1st hand. See what their about.

Each dog is vastly different, yet in the same breath, each is extremely similar.

I was fortunate to be the only pup ever sold(actually 2nd-the neighbor got one) in the local area to my breeder. And he has been a Pro trainer for various Working dogs/Bite work for many years.

So, yes...the little hiccups that came along where able to be fixed 1st hand by both of us. But there really were not that many hiccups.

My dog is VERY soft. I cannot lay a hand on him, or even physically move him into positions. Such as....if he breaks a Down/Stay and I need to drag him back to the spot and force him back down, he's done for the day. He will shut down and sulk. And I am not a heavy handed dog "Forcer". A yell from me and he knows he F'd up big time.

And the dogs are not "Turn Key", they really hunt to some degree right out of the box. Every one of them. So the whole hunting style is simply controlled hunting with a touch of obedience.

I only hunt ducks. And the Drive and Nose on the dog right out of the box is enough to do 80% of what I need.

The same could be said for Upland. Drive and Nose is part of the price tag. The dog should Point pretty easily, though mine took a good bit of work. I didn't care for it(until I committed to the Testing of the Breed) and I never got off on sticking a wing on a string in front of him. My dog is a young male with big balls. He wants to go find things and bring them back. Not point them. But he will. He developed a bit slower.

I can go through the VDD website and look for breeders in your area if you need the help. But I strongly suggest you go see them in person. Any good breeder should want to talk all day about their dogs and how great they are. I run demos all the time with my dog.

I don't want to start a fight, especially on a topic I am not very strong on. Labs are better as specialists, Drathaar's can do most anything, with individual dogs showing more talent in certain skills. If you want a retriever who works at your direction a lab is the king. If you want a dog to hunt with that works a little more on his own you will love the DD. Just my observations from helping with DD training and Breed testing along with watching a good bit of lab training and some competition. If I pissed you off I already said I am not an authority.

Not at all pissed off. I actually agree with what you said. I have little Lab experience. I have Chessie experience. Love them and will have more, as all I do is Waterfowl.

What I fail to see in any of the Retrievers is Nose. I see Loyalty, Trainability, Willingness, etc. But I'd have a hard time accepting a Retriever nose is on par (overall/average) with a DD. That's why there is little to no Hand Signals or direction needed. Cast the dog on a line for a blind and there will be a bird coming back with the dog. He will simply Get it.

Again, my opinion owning a DD and being around a good handful of others(though not a lifetime's worth) is that there are not TOO MANY HOLES in the DD game. They are often labeled "Jack of All Trades but Master of None". Master is a pretty strong word....not a whole lot they lack, and I'd even dare say "High Level Journeyman of All Trades".

Be very hard to argue that there is anything more "Bang for the buck" than a DD, Griff, Pudel type Versatile Dog. Add in the Southeast guys are running hogs with them, coons with them, coyotes, squirrels, etc. Sheds and Blood tracking too.

The blood track they are required to do for "Master Level"(there are only 3 total exams for the DD if the owner chose to go that route) is very difficult. Strict requirements for how much blood can be laid out, how far apart the blood is spaced, turns, wind as well as aged up to 40 hours.

Mine personally (he is not yet 2) is on the low end for Drive. He is NOT a fan of cold water or ice. A very well bred DD should pretty much throw all regard of self preservation aside and do whatever task is needed...ie, ducks on the ice with a 60 yards swim and 12 deg temps. Mine at this point will not. Or at least not all day. He is a hammer from sun up til 11 or during the "Morning Show" as we call it. But his Drive gets zapped. I could not hunt him All Day sun up to sun down. Others will Hyp out and die from Drive.

Mine also loves our cat and brought every cripple back alive this season and is pretty much a Lover. But I'll take that in a Family household with a cat. But he wouldn't be a breeder, as he is a little A-Typical in some of those aspects.

The blood track is flat awesome. We had a big thunderstorm one night after laying a blood trail. 12 hours aged and with about one hour of very heavy rain the only thing slowing the dog down was us not running fast enough with her. The blind search with game thrown into heavy cover and the dog given a line and told to search is what showed me a real HUNTING dog. In a couple minutes she would bring two different species to hand. No whistles, no hand signals, just standing waiting for her to do the job. But you have to admit watching them work a rabbit, or running one, just seems WRONG!!!

If Labs noses are inferior why are so many used in Detection Work.

Drathaar can be aloof, much less social than Labs. Not a problem if you hunt primarily alone or with same partner all the time. have seen it even extend to not having much to do with anyone other than "The Master" in the family. Wife, Kids etc are just a food dish handler.

Just a couple things to consider
Kevin

"What I fail to see in any of the Retrievers is Nose" I also beg to differ. Along with their intelligence (#7), and trainability they have excellent noses. If not they wouldn't be the most widely used dog by border patrol, custom houses, military bomb dogs, S&R, hunters and others.

Over the years I've owned, trained, tested both breeds in various registry hunting tests and hunted with both breeds. There are quite a lot of differences between the breeds.

I regard Retrievers as waterfowl specialists although several lines of Labs are are being bred specifically for upland game. I personally don't like flushing breeds and prefer the pointing breeds for upland game.

Drathaars were developed as a versatile breed that can find, point and retrieve game both on land an water and blood track. In the field they aren't "flashy" like a English Pointer or Setter and they aren't as strong in the water as Labs or a Chessy. The term "Jack of all Trades and Master of None" fits the breed.

IMO if your main pursuit is waterfowl especially on big water and in harsh late season cold conditions a Lab or Chessy will excel, no debate about it. A Drathaar can't take prolonged cold water exposure like a retriever can.

If your main pursuit is upland game with limited early season waterfowl hunting on smaller ponds, marshes etc. a Drathaar would be my choice.

Good luck in your search and choice of breed.

Really good constructive discussion. I gave some thought to another lab or Chessie and still in the exploring stage. I'm in no big hurry to purchase a dog.
We have owned labs for the last 15 years.

Our current lab has a great nose but she doesn't like the water or loud noises.
I'm guessing her first Fourth of July with the sharp sound of fire crackers ruined her for hunting.

Most of the time we will be waterfowl hunting, however upland a fair amount of time as well.
Last year my son and friends hunted geese on the Connecticut River to the seasons end in January. They used the boat to retrieve or waded where it was safe to do so.
I ordered the Drahtaar training book today and have spoke to several breeders in the last few weeks.
Heading to a VHD training program on Saturday for a few hours.

Good luck in your selection. If you have any more questions PM me.

I rarely post here any longer due to schitt like this ^^^^ though. I can't bite my tongue.

I've worked for the Border Patrol over 18 years. Been just about every place there is to be, other than the Southeast US. And we don't have one [bleep] Retriever in our crew. Nor do we have one .22 Long Rifle chambered training weapon to utilize the 450 billion rounds of .22LR ammo the DHS is accused of hoarding or buying to keep out of the hands of "the Civilians"

The DDs I have been around have been great field dogs, not so much house dogs.
That, of course, has alot to do with the handler.

You teach a pointing dog manners. Then expose them to game.
If you are looking for a waterfowl dog that points, then the DD is at the top of the list along with the Griffon.
The best DD will never keep up with a Chessie or good lab in the water.
Or a Pointer or GSP in open country.

After reading my post, I forgot to add something.

The thing that the DD has in spades is drive. These dogs flat-out hunt.

That seems odd because all the DD's I know of up here that I have spent weekends training with all do well in the house. That includes 3 different owners who own two, and another guy & myself each have one.
And the same goes for the pointing. I had a GSP & Weimeraner before the DD & one of the other guys grew up raising GSPs.
Now style wise the english pointer will look better with the big tail & stout stance, but in actual hunting situations looks don't mean a thing.

The VHD training today was hold and fetch or "forced fetch".

Most of the dogs were Griffons, 3 GSP's, and 3 GWPointers.

Very good instructors at the clinic, clear step by step explanation of the how, what and why.

The wife of one trainor or would like me to look at the Griffons as well because they may suit my layed back personality whereas the Drathaar fits my son.i receive The Drahtaar Puppy manual written by Nancy Bohs and Roger Smith.

I switched to griffons from labs. loved my labs but was tired of the shedding and the uncontrollable urge to eat. plus I wanted a smaller dog. will never get any dog other than griffs .
mine wont over eat, hardly shed. I got the first one...brook... six years ago. when my lab died I got the second one...sam... love them. if I had not decided on the griffs , then I would have gotten a draht. mine are good in the house and get along good with my wifes cat. hunt greath with me etc. I could go on and on, but you get the picture. did I mention I love em. bob

If you like a "laid back" type of dog a Griff would probably suit you.

Im 58 and breed definately doesn't have enough drive or style for my taste in pointing breeds and IMO they're just to UGLY looking for me to ever own one.

I have had four GWPs to date. They make good companions and fit my needs as a bird hunter in S. Arizona. We have hunted Gambels, Scaled and Mearns quail. Also mourning dove and ducks.

I live with my dogs which IMO makes a difference.

My latest one, Asa, just turned 1 yr old Jan 25th. She has only hunted mearns. She went out 24 days and has developed into a wonderful hunter. (she just went swimming in this pic)

Now that the hunting season is over she and the other two GWPs will be boat dogs this spring and early summer.

Get a Toller....they will protect your booze!

One bad thing about the "fuzzy" dogs, they get quite ugly in the Burdocks.

I'm going to call a Drahtaar breeder in Pennsylvania this spring and arrange a visit. Also going to take a look at the Griffon as well.
I have a pretty good trainer lined up here in CT.
Just waiting for the thaw now.

Spot on,except for the ugly part. Buddy has one. Very laid back.My wirehair has way more drive.

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.
Do you have a GWPOINTER, Drahtaar or Griffon?