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I had a wild hair and decided to get my TC Hawken out and try to shoot a Jack Rabbit a couple weeks ago. I blew some smoke at them but did not do much damage to the population! But, it renewed my interest in the old smoke pole and got me to shooting again. I thought I'd go out and shoot off a bench last weekend and see if it was me or the gun. I still don't know because the wind was blowing about 20 mph and those old round balls and wind don't go together very well. What I did notice was that my eyes are not quite what they used to be and that a Peep sight may be in order. So off to Sportsman's where they have next to nothing in Traditional Muzzleloaders.....seems the world has gone in-line and the side hammers are nearly a thing of the past. T/C completely eliminated the Hawkens from their line - what? Too bad in my opinion, packing the old Hawkin makes one feel like a trapper in the 1830's - not exactly the same feeling I get with a plastic stocked, scoped in-line with 3 pellets and a sabot and pistol bullets that rivals a 30-30. I'm sure this has been discussed before, but like I said before it's been a while since I had the old soot burner out (like 15 years...) so I have some catching up to do. Anyone else out there still like the old style or are we a dying breed?


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T/C got bought by S&W, and that was the end of that.

I prefer my traditional gun (though the inline gets a lot of use as it has for years). My next one will likely be a custom or semi-custom flintlock.

There aren't as many of us out there as there used to be, and with the lack of good traditional guns on the common market, there will be less and less each year.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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I have 3 sidelocks, and love them! Just cannot figure out why people think they will not shoot well. 2 of mine have scopes in offset mounts, and will shoot as well as I can hold. My eyes suffer from old age as well, but if the light is good, I can still do well. I am not totally Dan'l Boone though - I shoot 777, and mostly Hornady XTP's. That combo has been accurate, and very effective at killing deer.

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I got to admit - that buggy rifle in 32 would make a dandy small game rifle as well.

Thin barrel by comparison - short lock time.

I've been sketching on graph paper like a sunabitch since we talked about it.

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You have the barrel. You know the action that would work. Buy the action and let the rest figure itself out.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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I like the Ky Rifle in 45 cal

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doing this one from scratch, bruh.

Have spring steel, Mapp gas, and files.

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I prefer caplock rifles, patched round balls and real black powder. I don't have an inline and don't intend to buy one. So, traditional muzzloaders aren't dead at my house.


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Buying Black Powder is not a small feat in itself. Pyrodex is all over but the real stuff is hard to get. I suppose that is fine with me as I get more shots with Pyrodex between barrel scrubs. Still make a big cloud of smoke and puts a silly grin on my face.


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I put a V peep from RMC on my Lyman flintlock. Check out their online catalog.

http://www.rmcsports.com/catalog.htm


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Originally Posted by centershot
Pyrodex...... Still make a big cloud of smoke and puts a silly grin on my face.


Yeah, but you don't get that wonderful rotten egg smell. sick I have muzzleloaders of many types, sidelocks, inlines, even smokeless. I like 'em all. This past year I pulled my original Pattern '53 Enfield out of the safe to use for the limited hunting I was able to do. Unfortunately nothing stood still long enough for me to line up that tiny front blade on. To me the sights are the limiting factor with "traditional" caplock rifles. I can't shoot an iron sighted inline any better than my P53, however a deer within a hundred yards is in trouble if it holds still long enough.


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That V peep looks interesting. Did you use the fiber front or the stock front?


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My 58cal CVA Hawken from 100 yards. Tell me THAT doesn't get you wanting to shoot a sidelock.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S12L8F5uPg

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There are still plenty of traditional muzzle loaders around. We just don't hang out in the same places where the modern stuff is.

Google traditional muzzle loader and you can find plenty of activity.

There are also plenty of clubs at the local level. We are out there and active if you look you can find us.



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Originally Posted by RWE
I got to admit - that buggy rifle in 32 would make a dandy small game rifle as well.

Thin barrel by comparison - short lock time.

I've been sketching on graph paper like a sunabitch since we talked about it.

Originally Posted by RWE
doing this one from scratch, bruh.

Have spring steel, Mapp gas, and files.


I have a .36 Buggy Rifle, I'm thinking of selling if you change your mind. It would be pretty simple to re-barrel or re-line to .32.

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Originally Posted by centershot
Anyone else out there still like the old style or are we a dying breed?


The numbers are definitely dropping. We hunt in PA that has a flintlock-only season, which forces people to stay more traditional, although you can buy flintlocks with camo synthetic stocks and made to shoot pellets. But, there are still plenty who feel the historical connection with traditional muzzleloaders is more important than just another opportunity to hunt.

I'm thinking of building a flintlock with my son and have been looking st companies like Track of the Wolf, Jim Chambers and Pecatonica River. There are far more options to build quality rifles yourself than there used to be. With all of those options, there must be more of us that we think. Perhaps, that is a direct results of fewer commercial rifle options.

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No, but you have to build or buy an import or custom. Lyman rifles are nice for the money but are Italian, I think.

The guy who said finding BP is hard is right, but 777 works okay and is easier to light than Pyrodex, I think.


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I still shoot a flintlock longrifle.....while wearing full buckskins....each year. Guess that's kind of traditional.


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I would say No to the dead theory .
I also wouldn’t judge so much numbers of hunters as a gage as the numbers of muzzle loading hunters has always been low in comparison . Enter the modern inline and you have a boost . But just like with Archery, large numbers of compound hunters does not equate to the dying off of the traditional hunters .
While I do believe there is a reduction of strictly traditional muzzle loading shooters , I really thing what your seeing is more of a customer demand .
IE . In the 70’s there were many different production style guns on the market . People were getting all caught up in the centennial. Holly weird was cranking out fur trade movies …….. But what was also happening is that those people were getting interested in history to a degree .. So even though the buck skinning movement was going strong , inside that movement you had folks , digging , reading , researching and finding out that the production market was very much lacking in authenticity and in quality . Thus companies started to fall away . Eventually leaving only a couple to chose from . Thus as the modern movement came about, the customer base moved with it .
However at the very same time , the market for more authenticity and higher quality was growing to the point if you look around , its not hard to find someone who is either a builder or traditional gunsmith .the options of the guns to chose from is simply astounding.
Do they cost more . Yep . Ironically comparatively to wage , not much more then 200 years ago
Whole companies have sprung up . From lock makers , casting foundries , barrel makers , trigger makers , stock companies all the way to folks who run small businesses selling parts or completed rifles .
No one that I know is getting rich . But there is no shortage of work .

But that river that is customer demand changes so does they type of work . For the last few years I have seen a real resurgence of folk digging out their old production guns . Rebuilding or having them rebuilt . On the other side of the spectrum , even the custom market is changing in that more and more customers are looking and willing to pay the cost for a truly custom piece fit to them and done by hand . IE more and more people are beginning to make all their own parts by forging , casting . a lot more hand work is being done and frankly the quality of that work is in many cases astounding .

So as another poster said , all one has to do is look around . Do so and you will find a lot more then you think. Most anything from re-enactors who shoot guns ranging from lat 19th century all the way to the match lock of the 16th . Gun builders and smiths who can or do build everything in between . Hunters , Buck skinners and everyday folks who just enjoy shooting . To the long range BP muzzle loading folks .
Its all out there . Most times you just wont find them on forums that deal more to the modern side . For the most part I think we are just to different in the why of it all .


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Oh and as to BP . Its much the same . While you may not find it by just swinging and walking up to one of the shelves of your local Bass pro or Wal-Mart , its not hard to find if you want it. You just have to look..


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