Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Traditional Muzzleloaders a thing of the past?

Speechless.

Yeah, it does look really good, doesn't it?

Dixie Gun Works are still in business. From kits to finished rifles. I have a couple .54s, have killed 33 deer so far with my Richland Arms. Shot a squirrel once, looked like he grabbed the tree when I hit him, rattled when I picked him up. To much power maybe

Not dead by a long shot. IMHO, it only seems that way because there is a big market for muzzle loaders just to get a jump or extension on deer season. The scopes & inline demand is driven by state regulations. The hunters just want the most practical gun to get the job done.

Yes, there were a lot of semi authentic, cheaper muzzle loaders in the past. Those were mostly purchased by deer hunters. Now that business is gone inline/plastic and scope. I have several old TC's. Solid guns for fair price, but not real nostalgic stuff either. The Lyman guns seem to be as good as Thompson ever was. I think much better.

For the true beliver, there are more and better replicas than ever. And seems the Italian imports still available in more versions than ever. Google Pedersol: Gibbs, Mortimer, authentic muskets.I dont know the quality, but there are dozens of models! The more authentic guns probably tend to cost more, on average. And low production cost more.

How many of you traditional guys use real black powder?

I really wish the states would require true authentic guns and ammo. What is the big challenge with an inline scoped gun? Where to draw the line? I propose: Fixed iron sights, real black powder, lead balls (or bullets no sabot) and guns that look the part.

Pedersoli makes great stuff.

I've had Lyman and TC. Both work fine, but Lyman looks more authentic.

The TC Hawken isn't much like a Hawken, but except for the staighter buttstock, looks very like some real New England halfstocks I've seen online, down to the crazy trigger guard.

I can believe that. I only meant I did not know.

I also have a 12ga TC shotgun. I forget what they are called. New Englander maybe? I believe that could be had as a spare barrel or a stand alone shotgun, which I got. Someday, I want to have someone install a screw in choke tube. Not very authentic but the wide open pattern is very limiting. I heard TC later offered a choked barrel. I never saw one. I doubt they sold many. It handles very well and I think better than the doubles I looked at over the years.

I had a Mortimer .54 flinter that was a peach, once I corrected the flash hole.

I still have a TC Greyhawk, which is the stainless version of the New Englander. Mine is a .50, with a tang peep. Some of those NE shotguns were made with tubes, I believe, but though I still look for them on Ebay from time to time, I've not found one at a decent price. All I need is the barrel.

I have a NE with both .54 rifle and 12ga barrels. Mine doesn't have a choke but I'm sure they did offer them. Only problem with a choke is loading them unless you pull it out every time. I took mine turkey hunting and used a plastic wad with a wrap of electrical tape around the pedals to keep it together longer. Patterned tighter but I never saw a bird to try it on.

True.
I have one of their 12ga. sxs shotguns. Came with screw in chokes.(Mossberg 500 chokes fit just fine)
The only trouble I had was some misfires when I got it.
That was easily fixed by opening the nipples up to 1mm. Known glitch on their caplocks.

Pedersoli makes some Good and some not so good . Personally I don’t think their quality is what it was and their prices are right there with the custom guns.
One of the issue I think we face is that Society , IMO has moved more to instant gratification / want it now . Its not just traditional muzzleloaders , I see it in the Modern movement as well . How many times have we read on this forum where a shooter posts some very good patterns .
Normally they will post that they used powder X , bullet X , lube X …… only to have someone say that they the bullet is crap and never has shot well for them or the lube doesn’t work …… many times this if followed by a couple pages of peoples poor experience’s during hunting …… .
But no one ever asks about how much time was put in getting to get those results or what the shooter did different so as to get those results . On the slight chance someone does . They then seem to expect to achieve the exact same results instantly .

Myself I have used flintlocks for years and I still get the comment that they don’t work in wet weather and that the ignition is slow .
That comment is correct if we don’t take the time to learn what “WE” need to do so as to make them work reliably in wet weather and fire correctly .
Thus what happens is a reputation has been built based around , poor quality ,lack of knowledge and the in ability /want to gain that knowledge .

Im not trying to insult anyone here , I just find this a good example.
lets use the current comments about screw in chokes .
How many folks know why was it that Cylinder bores held favor for so long , when screw on adjustable chokes, choked bores and jug choking had been around for a very long time but didn’t gain real favor tell the end of the 19th century ?
Why have we for some reason stopped being able to ask .
How they got a choked bore loaded ?
How is it that cylinder bores held the day even in BP cartridge guns well through the Public Trial competitions of 1850 through around 1880‘s continually posting scores well above the choked bore ?
What changed so as to achieve the results we see today with chokes ?
Greener wrote volumes on this very subject ., going into great detail . That information is out there , all we have to do is reach out and grasp it ..

As time has gone on I think the nature is to blame the mechanism instead of possibly human nature.
IE its old and there for wont work as well as something new . / progress is good because its new .
When factually in most cases we are doing nothing but re-inventing the wheel , changing its color ,calling it progress . Yet time and time again history re-lives itself because we forget the past and there for relive it do to so called progress .

My Mortimer was purchased for $430 from Cabelas, something that will give you an idea of the "Vintage". It was well made in all respects.

During the deer season, I talked to a guy using a Pedersoli 1861 that he also shot in competition. He was well pleased with his.

They do make some crazy attempts at inlines, but I've never seen one.

Wow... an excellent post by Capt. Chee with which I totally agree. I find that often, "progress" is more in one's mind than an actuality-of-life !!!

While both of my sons use .50 caliber "in-lines" for deer hunting, you will never see an "in-line" in my gun-safe or anywhere else in the house.

I limit my shots to 80 yards or less (preferably "less") with my older, caplock .50 caliber CVA Hawken... more due to my old eyes rather than any inability of my Hawken (1:48 twist) to hit deer further away.

Thus my "deer-hunting-load" for the patched Hornady swagged .490" round ball is a relatively small load consisting of 70 grains of Swiss FFFg black powder. However, THAT load gets-the-job-done and will shoot through both sides of a big whitetail buck's "kill-zone".

That is as good-as-it-gets in my "book" and puts venison in the freezer every year. I never "fix" something that ain't broke.


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

C'mon Ron

Being a stout traditionaist is fine. I love reading muzzleloader history - love to attend reenactment-events. But the actuality in my life says my inlines are:....... more accurate -- more resistant to moisture - can handle more powder -- can shoot a bullet flatter -- can shoot a bullet faster -- less moving parts -- easier to pull a load, then reuse it -- easier to clean with open breech -- easier to inspect -- hotter ignitions...... etc....etc...etc.

I own both sidehammers and inlines. But if you do not see progress with inlines, I'm not sure what your definition of progress is.

Progress is in the harvest and you have a better chance at a harvest (all things considered) with an inline.

There be shooters and there be hunters. Progress has zip to do with that.

Traditional muzzleloading isnt dead, YOU just have to get off your ass and start doing it. Its no harder than any other kind of hunting.

I've got two .54 caliber Hawken replicas. Ones an older T/C and the other is a Lyman. Both are very accurate and a lot of fun to shoot. I don't use anything but round balls and real black powder. And I still hunt with them sometimes even when it's regular rifle season, just for fun and the nostalgic sentiment.

Personally, I wouldn't own a modern in-line type rifle. And I don't really think they should be allowed in Black Powder only seasons, IMO.

they ain't dead,i've sold a truck load of them to members here.

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Every fact you mention is absolutely true. However, who said that "progress" is the golden chalice or something we traditionalists even want?

My thinking is "Whatever makes your motor run or floats yer boat"... and if it's in-lines, then so be it. However, for me, I like the traditional side-locks, the possible "handicaps" they bring with 'em, the aroma of REAL black powder and the limitations the side-locks shootin' patched, round lead rifle balls automatically put on the hunter/shooter.

I've got 'scoped center-fire magnums and have hunted with a .338 Win. Mag. in a custom pre-'64 Model 70 for 40 years. Then I got tired of its recoil and it's almost-automatic "sure" kill even at extended ranges, so now I take my chances and don't mind the extra "work" involved in getting CLOSER before taking the shot... or even passing up a shot sometimes.

Sure... I have had to "pass" on some nice bucks, but that's ok... it's MY choice, isn't it... just as it's your choice to use what amounts to a 'scoped in-line with "almost" center-fire rifle ballistics during muzzle-loader season. And, as long as that's "legal"... then so be it and good luck to you and I sincerely mean that, my friend.

But for me... I'd rather do it the way I'm doing it... and you and my 2 sons can do it the way you and they prefer doing it. So what's wrong with that?

Butttt... even THINKING that traditional muzzle-loaders are "dead"??? Nayyyy... no way, José.


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

Sweet Jag!