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I've been thinking about upgrading to a nicer shotgun but know basically zero when it comes to O/U's.
Would like to wind up with something in the 7lb range for under $2k.
Not a real 'sensitive' person when it comes to handling so it wouldn't be a huge deal to me having a shotgun that did or didn't fit exactly right. It would also be a shotgun that is carried a lot and shot very little.
Guess I am just kind of assuming there isn't that much stock(shape) difference between O/U hunting shotguns?
Obviously it would be best to handle several different makes but that is not possible.
I looked at Beretta on-line and don't really like the idea of a sideways safety. Is it a problem using gloves?
Might be able to get my hands on a Browning here at our little LGS but it was one of those super glossy versions and I'm not into that much bling.
Been thinking about this for over a year and am not keen on the idea of ordering something without a little education.
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Sam, For lightweight this is one of the nicest. They are also out there in 16Gauge. I personally would prefer 28 inch barrels. http://www.gunsamerica.com/940892414/BROWNING-CITORI-FEATHERWEIGHT.htmHowever, there is often considerable stock shape differences in various O/U's.
laissez les bons temps rouler
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The best advice I can give is to buy either a Beretta or Browning. Not sure what you mean about sideways safety. The safety is forward to fire and back on safe. The sideways part is the barrel selector. Here are some good sources for used. http://www.joeletchenguns.com/http://www.whittakerguns.com/http://gun.home.cyberverse.com/Joel and Whittakers have a couple good deals on Beretta's right now. On the Brownings, you need to know a little about them before buying used. Some of the older Citori Lightweights were anything but light compared to today's shotguns and there is a possibility of salt wood on really old models. I forget the salt wood years because I prefer Beretta anyway.
Last edited by R_H_Clark; 02/13/15.
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Correct on the sideway movement being for barrel selection. However depending of the ease of movement, it is not rare for it to be moved to the middle. When that occurs, the safety will not move forward to allow it to be in the fire position.
The Browning I referenced is known as the Feather and has an aluminum receiver with a steel insert on the breech. Much lighter than the older Citori Lightweights.
laissez les bons temps rouler
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Correct on the sideway movement being for barrel selection. However depending of the ease of movement, it is not rare for it to be moved to the middle. When that occurs, the safety will not move forward to allow it to be in the fire position.
The Browning I referenced is known as the Feather and has an aluminum receiver with a steel insert on the breech. Much lighter than the older Citori Lightweights. Thanks for the clarification. I'm not up on all the Browning models. I just know to check the actual weight when looking at used ones.
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Franchi makes some really light ones.
Personally, I'd be looking for a used (only option) Daly from Japan. Better workmanship and better engraving than Brownings. A little less clubby.
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My Cynergy Field is well under 7lbs, and has been an excellent shotgun. I prefer its handling characteristics over the more traditional Citori.
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Sam, I had several Brownings and Beretta's over the years.. Both were ok.. I guess I liked the Beretta's best..But from the factory, they come with an very long stock.. I had all of mine cut a bit shorter.. As you know handling them would be best, but it not possible, then it is not.. Finally, went back to my pump guns..
Molon Labe
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Okay guys, thanks for all the info! I got confused looking at a pic of a Beretta, I did indeed mistake the selector switch for the safety... I believe SAS here on the 'Fire owns or works at Whittaker? That would be a good route for sure. Did a little 2 minute research just now and this one looks sweet. The longer LOP probably would be fine, I have fairly long arms. http://www.beretta.com/en-us/sv10-perennia-iii/Thinking 28" barrels would be the way to go for mostly open country?
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Yea, I like 28" on a 12 ga for field use but Whittakers has a beretta 686 Whitewing with 26" barrels for $999 that is a killer price if you can live with 26" barrels.
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I've been thinking about upgrading to a nicer shotgun but know basically zero when it comes to O/U's.
Would like to wind up with something in the 7lb range for under $2k.
Not a real 'sensitive' person when it comes to handling so it wouldn't be a huge deal to me having a shotgun that did or didn't fit exactly right. It would also be a shotgun that is carried a lot and shot very little.
Guess I am just kind of assuming there isn't that much stock(shape) difference between O/U hunting shotguns?
Obviously it would be best to handle several different makes but that is not possible.
I'll add my experiences in this direction here..... We hunt grouse/timberdoodles here in Michigan but go to Sodak and hunt for a week every fall. Out there a shotgun is often "carried a lot and shot, not a lot" So I was looking for a nice light 12GA O/U. And everybody told me to buy either a Beretta or Browning. More that one shotgun guru hereabouts has opined "you will shoot one of these two brands better than the other". Both make LW 12 GA models. So I found a pretty nice preowned Beretta 687 Ultra Light DLX 12 GA, w/ 28" barrels locally.. It has a dull (oil?) finished stock and weighs right at 6#s or so. I had the stock bent for some cast-on and a Pachmyr SC100 pad put to my specs. The gun has been a joy to carry on all day prairie treks after roosters/grouse. Function has been perfect too. I know both Franchi and Caesar Guerini have come out with some nice LW O/U models more recently too. Happy gun shopping!
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I've said it before and will say it again.....as far as a "using" shotgun, some of the best "sleeper" guns are the Spanish made guns (both SxS as well as O/U).
These guns are not as "high-profile" as a Browning or Beretta, but are very well made and available for sometimes half of what the better known guns will cost you.
My favorite O/U is a Sarasqueta 12 Ga. with an alloy frame that weighs in at just over 6 1/2 pounds. It has great balance, good wood, nicely checkered and tasteful engraving. It is a joy to carry all day and has held up flawlessly for more than a decade of hard use.
Best of all, cost me less than half of what a Browning would have cost at the time.....and does everything the Browning would have done.
I hate change, it's never for the better.... Grumpy Old Men
The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Thanks again for all the ideas and suggestions!
I actually just got off the phone with a good feller and made a deal on his shotgun. It's actually almost too nice of a gun.....
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Campfire Kahuna
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Congratulations Sam, after you bought the gun perhaps I can't call you $am?
These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o
"May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Richard, consider it an investment in leisure.....
Gotta have a little fun right?!
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Campfire Kahuna
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Sure thing Sam!
I have a few blunderbusses on hand.
The gag about spending money on, (fill in the blank), the rest I just wasted.
These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o
"May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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Richard, guns are generally worth every penny....
Told my wife that it'll practically pay for itself with all the good bird meat!
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Campfire Kahuna
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Methinks your wife is smarter than that Sam.
These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o
"May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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Sam,
What did you end up getting?
Leo
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Leo, there is a little story to this deal.
A member here PM'd me a couple weeks ago and offered to sell a very nice O/U 16 gauge Rizzini.
It was delivered to my local sporting goods store last Thursday.
Unbeknownst to the seller or myself the store has a little 'personal policy' where they require any shipped firearms to be transferred through a FFL(on the seller end of the deal).
It's perfectly legal for a private seller(non FFL holder) to ship a firearm to a FFL and transfer it that way but the store says nope, we won't accept it and have to send it back.
Why?
I have no fricken idea, they hummed and hawed around and I stood and listened and stayed calm.
The shotgun(which I still haven't seen in person) was sitting on the counter in a box and all I could do was say, okay, guess we'll have to send it back to the seller and then ship it all the way back here again.
The other clerks were kinda waiting for me to blow up but I knew that wouldn't do any good. And besides, my buddy(seller) had already reamed the dink out on the phone before I showed up to see WTF was going on.
Sooooo, hopefully the shotgun survives 2 unnecessary trip back and forth.
It's been bugging me for the last 6 days, but I guess I should have asked if there was any bullchit rules I needed to be aware of when I went in and asked them if they'd transfer the shotgun for me....
And I could care less about the extra shipping charges, I am just worried about the gun getting damaged or disappearing...
Live and learn.
If freight doesn't screw up it will most certainly be worth the wait.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Sam, that takes the cake.
These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o
"May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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If freight doesn't screw up it will most certainly be worth the wait.
I think you are going to like that one. 
laissez les bons temps rouler
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Had a local Kimber "Master Dealer" try to do that 'must come from an FFL holder, its the law' bit on me when I bought a used .308 off here several years ago. I didn't argue, just told him he was wrong, he didn't know a law from a private policy. I'd bought 5 guns from him in the past, and haven't been in there since. I take every chance I can to tell people around here looking for guns that he is an idiot.  Probably doesn't matter, but makes me feel better.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Richard, frustrating to say the least.
Battue, both of the clerks commented that it is a really nice shotgun. I just said, I hope it stays that way...
Cheesy, we have one sporting goods store in town and the clerks were just following 'orders'. I don't know the owners, they live out of town.
They knew they could legally do the transfer....
They even ran the numbers to see if it was stolen....
But, for whatever reason it's against the 'store policy'.
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Of course, we will need to see pics of that Rizzini when you do finally take possession!  Just picked up a Beretta 687 Silver Pigeon IV 20 gauge last week, myself. Now on the hunt for same in 28 gauge.
Talk is cheap. It takes money to buy whiskey.
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Mudstud, I already have few pics in my PM's but don't want to jinx it...
Feel free to post some pics of the Beretta, that gun sounds very nice!
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If it's anything like this one you're definitely going to like it. ![[Linked Image]](http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/CharlieB401/Rizzini/002_zpsngoylqh1.jpg) PS,,,, I don't blame the seller for being pissed. There's enough restrictions on firearms without stupid gun shops creating their own.
Last edited by FieldGrade; 03/04/15.
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Leo, there is a little story to this deal.
A member here PM'd me a couple weeks ago and offered to sell a very nice O/U 16 gauge Rizzini.
It was delivered to my local sporting goods store last Thursday.
Unbeknownst to the seller or myself the store has a little 'personal policy' where they require any shipped firearms to be transferred through a FFL(on the seller end of the deal).
It's perfectly legal for a private seller(non FFL holder) to ship a firearm to a FFL and transfer it that way but the store says nope, we won't accept it and have to send it back.
Why?
I have no fricken idea, they hummed and hawed around and I stood and listened and stayed calm.
The shotgun(which I still haven't seen in person) was sitting on the counter in a box and all I could do was say, okay, guess we'll have to send it back to the seller and then ship it all the way back here again.
The other clerks were kinda waiting for me to blow up but I knew that wouldn't do any good. And besides, my buddy(seller) had already reamed the dink out on the phone before I showed up to see WTF was going on.
Sooooo, hopefully the shotgun survives 2 unnecessary trip back and forth.
It's been bugging me for the last 6 days, but I guess I should have asked if there was any bullchit rules I needed to be aware of when I went in and asked them if they'd transfer the shotgun for me....
And I could care less about the extra shipping charges, I am just worried about the gun getting damaged or disappearing...
Live and learn.
If freight doesn't screw up it will most certainly be worth the wait. I have had this same issue with all the local shops around here. None will receive from an individual. Sometimes it isn't just the store owner's fault though. I spoke to a local guy who had just opened up and he said sure, but he wanted to call his ATF guy to ask if there was anything he was missing or not understanding about receiving from an individual. I was in the shop when he made the call. The ATF guy told him not to receive from an individual. When he said he thought it was legal, the ATF guys said the law was whatever he said it was. The shop owner told me he was sorry but his FFL was hard enough to get and he didn't want or need trouble with ATF.
Last edited by R_H_Clark; 03/04/15.
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I have had this same issue with all the local shops around here. None will receive from an individual. Sometimes it isn't just the store owner's fault though.
I spoke to a local guy who had just opened up and he said sure, but he wanted to call his ATF guy to ask if there was anything he was missing or not understanding about receiving from an individual. I was in the shop when he made the call. The ATF guy told him not to receive from an individual. When he said he thought it was legal, the ATF guys said the law was whatever he said it was.
The shop owner told me he was sorry but his FFL was hard enough to get and he didn't want or need trouble with ATF.
The shop owner should have politely asked him where he could find that wordage in the rule book. Sounds to me like he's either fine with government over reach, or it's just to much trouble to stand up for his 2nd amendment rights. If receiving from a non FFL holder was illegal 90% of gun shop owners would be in prison.
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Well, truth be to told, I got tired of that hassle too. I went to gunshop to ship my Ruger Redhawk to Hamilton Bowen for some work done.
Leo
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If it's anything like this one you're definitely going to like it. PS,,,, I don't blame the seller for being pissed. There's enough restrictions on firearms without stupid gun shops creating their own. Charlie that's not too shabby.....grin I'm glad the seller gave the twerp an earful, hopefully he'll relay the message to the owners! RH, either the dealers are afraid of the ATF or they are just being ignorant(or both). If it's legal then WTF! Maybe the ATF needs to get a little head check.... Leo, just got word the gun made it back home. There is hope!
Last edited by SamOlson; 03/04/15.
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Sam, yeah, there is an FFL like that in my town, will only accept from another FFL. Every other FFL and gunshop in town will accept from a non-FFL. But not this guy, he's a by the book lifer MoFo, even tho there is no law against it. I would use him, as he only lives 3 blocks from my house, but I can't deal with the extra BS, just to satisfy his whims. BTW, I would post pics of my Beretta, but I'm not smart enough! I might could take some pics and PM them to you. It's pretty nice. But, I want to see some pics of your Rizzini!
Talk is cheap. It takes money to buy whiskey.
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Sam, I hope things work out for you with this shotgun!
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Mud, PM and I'll see if I can figure out how to post!
Leo, it'll work out. Too bad bird season is still 6 months away!
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I would like to see some pictures too guys if it's not too much trouble.
If anyone needs to know how to post pictures, PM me and I'll walk you through it.
This gets me excited, I'm saving for a 20ga Beretta SP1 right now. I'll get it about May this year.
As far as the local FFL's, I got the impression that they were being intimidated by ATF. They just didn't want the hassle, legal or not.
Last edited by R_H_Clark; 03/04/15.
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Sam, Guess,you can take it to the skeet fied for awhile to see how she runs! I'm also looking at my first over/under shotgun too. Mainl for upland bird/small game but also to be used for skeet. I'm southpaw which tends to rule out Berreta as they're usually cast for rights whereas brownings typical have neutral cast. Really like the Citori 725 but the 12ga field model weighs 7.5 lb. The 20gauge about a pound less so debating whether to get the 20ga instead. What other models did you look at? Leo
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Franchi Falconet Silver 12 ga. bought new back in 1971 for $188.00. Alloy receiver, 24" tubes choked cyl and imp cyl. At 6 lbs. a pleasure to carry in the field all day and one that will never leave....
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
Hunter S. Thompson
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Sam, Guess,you can take it to the skeet fied for awhile to see how she runs! I'm also looking at my first over/under shotgun too. Mainl for upland bird/small game but also to be used for skeet. I'm southpaw which tends to rule out Berreta as they're usually cast for rights whereas brownings typical have neutral cast. Really like the Citori 725 but the 12ga field model weighs 7.5 lb. The 20gauge about a pound less so debating whether to get the 20ga instead. What other models did you look at? Leo You can have the stock bent to a left hand cast. I did so years ago, what choice do most of us lefty's have? Doc
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Doc,
Yes, unfortunately us lefty's don't have a lot of choices. Today it's a little better than in the past even if we do get charged more or bumped up to the higher grade model.
I haven't found a gunsmith that could bend stocks for cast. I may have to seek out one who specializes with shotgun?
Leo
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You can have the stock bent to a left hand cast. I did so years ago, what choice do most of us lefty's have?
Doc [/quote]
The Beretta Ultralight referenced above had some cast-on put on by a local double gun guru. He bends stocks all the time for people from all over the country. He used to work @ Fieldsport before he opened his own shop. PM me if you would like his contact information.
NB
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Sam, Guess,you can take it to the skeet fied for awhile to see how she runs! I'm also looking at my first over/under shotgun too. Mainl for upland bird/small game but also to be used for skeet. I'm southpaw which tends to rule out Berreta as they're usually cast for rights whereas brownings typical have neutral cast. Really like the Citori 725 but the 12ga field model weighs 7.5 lb. The 20gauge about a pound less so debating whether to get the 20ga instead. What other models did you look at? Leo Leo, I actually haven't looked at anything yet but did buy a 6lb 16 gauge. It should be here for good sometime this week. Field Grade might have an idea how sweet it is.........grin
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![[Linked Image]](http://s121.photobucket.com/user/CharlieB401/media/Rizzini/002_zpsngoylqh1.jpg.html)