|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424
Campfire Sage
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 |
Especially when they smell poopy.
Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,257
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,257 |
Some thoughts... 1). How the media came up with the idea she was "experienced" I have no idea. A walk-up Kilamanjaro (usually guided), and some rock climbing doesn't amount to tackling the Presidential Traverse in extreme weather. There's no possible way she was "experienced" with that sort of weather, based on a multitude of incredibly stupid decisions. The stupid decisions include: a). Starting at all given the forecast, and continuing given the weather at timberline. According to SAS: b). She Carried no snowshoes. The Whites had gotten 10' of snow. Only reason she could get up the trail to timberline was because a previous party had broken the trail for her. Not sure what she thought she was going to do in an emergency drop off into the timber? c). She carried NO SLEEPING BAG. d). She carried NO SHELTER, tent or bivi bag. The last two in particular cost her her life. Going "light" in the winter mountains above timberline is one of those thing you just don't do, ever. The winter highcountry is just not forgiving. On every trail at timberline in the Presidential's there is a warning sign about dieing in bad weather, and a warning to turn back. All the phugging blather like "she died what she loved doing" is the sort of empty, stupid platitude people pull out of their azzzes when someone dies an untimely and preventable death. I guarantee her loved ones are in agony and aren't thinking "she died what she loved doing." I guarantee as she was dying, and knew it, she wasn't thinking in terms of oft quoted platitudes. I'm so sad for her and her loved ones, but I'm not going to paint this as anything other than it is, a preventable, empty tragedy. Silver linings don't exist with something like this. It just flatly sucks for all those left behind. ![[Linked Image]](https://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Rmav50MtQoU/TCUf5waR76I/AAAAAAAAC3U/lok6I03W138/s1600/White+Mountians+Warning+Sign.JPG)
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424
Campfire Sage
|
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 |
Brad just drove his point home.
With his COCK.
That pic of the sign is worth about 10 billion words.
Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
I'd not seen the details on what she DIDN'T carry with her. Yeah, that's just Darwin Award level stupid. The Whites are NO joke, and what she tried to do was just insane. Even if S&R had found her directly after she'd set off her beacon, she was dead by the time they'd get there. In those conditions, she was dead - fast. Some thoughts... 1). How the media came up with the idea she was "experienced" I have no idea. A walk-up Kilamanjaro (usually guided), and some rock climbing doesn't amount to tackling the Presidential Traverse in extreme weather. There's no possible way she was "experienced" with that sort of weather, based on a multitude of incredibly stupid decisions. The stupid decisions include: a). Starting at all given the forecast, and continuing given the weather at timberline. According to SAS: b). She Carried no snowshoes. The Whites had gotten 10' of snow. Only reason she could get up the trail to timberline was because a previous party had broken the trail for her. Not sure what she thought she was going to do in an emergency drop off into the timber? c). She carried NO SLEEPING BAG. d). She carried NO SHELTER, tent or bivi bag. The last two in particular cost her her life. Going "light" in the winter mountains above timberline is one of those thing you just don't do, ever. The winter highcountry is just not forgiving. On every trail at timberline in the Presidential's there is a warning sign about dieing in bad weather, and a warning to turn back. All the phugging blather like "she died what she loved doing" is the sort of empty, stupid platitude people pull out of their azzzes when someone dies an untimely and preventable death. I guarantee her loved ones are in agony and aren't thinking "she died what she loved doing." I guarantee as she was dying, and knew it, she wasn't thinking in terms of oft quoted platitudes. I'm so sad for her and her loved ones, but I'm not going to paint this as anything other than it is, a preventable, empty tragedy. Silver linings don't exist with something like this. It just flatly sucks for all those left behind.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
Especially when they smell poopy.
Travis About three summer time days along the Appalachians, and "poopy" is an understatement. I'd suspect it isn't much more pleasant in other places.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,317
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,317 |
" A walk-up Kilamanjaro (usually guided), and some rock climbing doesn't amount to tackling the Presidential Traverse in extreme weather. There's no possible way she was "experienced" with that sort of weather, based on a multitude of incredibly stupid decisions."
I have some young friends that did Kilamanjaro within a year before coming to visit me at the farm. We camped on the back of the property and Saturday morning they asked for a hike before breakfast. The farm has less than 200 feet of altitude difference. I was in my mid 40's at the time. I had these two sucking air like a carp and begging for mercy within an hour.
I don't claim any major physical prowess in my younger years, and certainly not at 45, and certainly not now at 56. My point is that K-jaro can't be all that rigorous.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 45,996
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 45,996 |
All the phugging blather like "she died what she loved doing" is the sort of empty, stupid platitude people pull out of their azzzes when someone dies an untimely and preventable death. I guarantee her loved ones are in agony and aren't thinking "she died what she loved doing." I guarantee as she was dying, and knew it, she wasn't thinking in terms of oft quoted platitudes.
I'm so sad for her and her loved ones, but I'm not going to paint this as anything other than it is, a preventable, empty tragedy. Silver linings don't exist with something like this. It just flatly sucks for all those left behind.
You're exactly right, it sucks for those left behind, her friends and family. That's one of the reasons I resist the temptation to pile on and talk about how stupid the dead woman was on a public forum. It's painfully obvious. No need to go there IMHO.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 45,996
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 45,996 |
One other thing, and then I will get off my rant. I just want to put a bug in y'all's ear. File a trip plan. Writing for deer hunting media exposes me a lot to guys who like to leave and go hunting where no one knows where they are or when they are coming back--No cell phones, no explanations, nada.
I cannot emphasize enough:
1) Leave a trip plan with someone you trust
2) Give specific deadlines. "If I'm not by Monday night. . ."
3) Give specifics of who to notify, and where to search
4) Give the location of your vehicle
5) Give a location of where you will head in case of trouble
6) If you carry nothing else, carry a whistle
This is not for you. This is for your rescuers and next of kin. You may be comfortable with becoming mulch, but one of your stupid loved ones may call the sheriff a day early, they put a team out on the mountain or down the hole and some good people may be put in harm's way. We go over this in our hunter's ed classes. In fact, we just went over it on Tuesday evening. What I tell people is to imagine yourself alone on the side of a mountain with a broken leg, hypothermic, and needing rescue. Then think about what you wish you would've written down to make it as easy as possible for SAR to find you. I hunt alone a lot. I not only give the location of my vehicle, I write down the make, model, and license #. I figure my wife won't need to be looking up those details if she's dialing the county sheriff. I also leave the sheriff's phone # in the county where I'll be so she doesn't need to look that up. Along with a description of the trail I'll be going in on, how far I'll be going in, and even the locations of campsites and coordinates if I know those, which I do sometimes. Another thing, my favorite season is nine days long. If I break my leg on day 1 or 2, I don't want to be waiting the duration for SAR to be notified so I always arrange to walk out to cell phone service about midway to call and check in. Usually by then I either need more food, have tagged out, or am ready to try a new spot anyway. In class on Tuesday,someone asked me about the cell phone reception where I hunt. My answer was, there is none, and that's one of the reasons I hunt there. Not only to get away from the cell phone and everything that goes with it that's work-related, but I like knowing that I'm on my own and there is no 911 I can call if I do something to get myself in a jam. Kind of sharpens your thinking.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,604
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,604 |
I use a delorme, just to communicate if need be.
There is no reason to pile on, however the media can certainly embellish a lot. A few years ago, I ran into a group of folks on a local mountain. They wanted off the mountain bad, and I guess I had a rescue shirt on or something because they asked about rescue quickly. I advised them, the easiest way off the mountain was to gain the summit and go down the other way, so I essentially guided them up and over. The experience was weird for me, because I never put much thought into the mountain , I just sort of go and make a route. Once I was done talking to them at the end, they told me they had done Ranier and Kili but guided. They thought this should be sort of easy but were in way over their comfort level. It happens.
People die all the times in the mountains, sometimes from poor decisions and sometimes from random acts. We recently lost a member of the rescue team that was a vey experienced guide and taught a lot of technical rescue classes. Although, I did not know him well, I thought he was a great guy and an extremely patient and good teacher on training exercises (because I am not a very good student). He was guiding some clients on something he could have climbed as a mutual friend said "with one crampon and a trekking pole", when some ice just gave out. RIP Mark Miller .
Anyway, the media likes stories that create chatter. This lady , it is unfortunate, because she did not make the best decisions, but it happens more often than we here, and it happens to people that make poor decisions, and people that are pros making great decisions. Likewise, a lot of people make poor decisions and survive.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25,076
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25,076 |
All the phugging blather like "she died what she loved doing" is the sort of empty, stupid platitude people pull out of their azzzes when someone dies an untimely and preventable death. I guarantee her loved ones are in agony and aren't thinking "she died what she loved doing." I guarantee as she was dying, and knew it, she wasn't thinking in terms of oft quoted platitudes.
I'm so sad for her and her loved ones, but I'm not going to paint this as anything other than it is, a preventable, empty tragedy. Silver linings don't exist with something like this. It just flatly sucks for all those left behind.
You're exactly right, it sucks for those left behind, her friends and family. That's one of the reasons I resist the temptation to pile on and talk about how stupid the dead woman was on a public forum.
It's painfully obvious. No need to go there IMHO. Word.
“Life is life and fun is fun, but it's all so quiet when the goldfish die.”
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,815
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,815 |
Some things I've learned while traversing the hinterlands:
Ma Nature doesn't care whether your Nature Conservancy dues are paid up or not.
A few moments of contemplative wisdom always trumps years of ego driven experience.
A sleeping bag is one of the most under rated pieces of kit.
Keeping body core temp. at 98.6 deg. is a good thing(see above).
Pretty sure Timothy Treadwell wasn't thinking.. "doin' what I love!".. in his last moments of conversion to digestible protein.
“Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them.”
― G. Orwell
"Why can't men kill big game with the same cartridges women and kids use?"
_Eileen Clarke
"Unjust authority confers no obligation of obedience."
- Alexander Hamilton
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,465
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,465 |
"If you're not living on the edge, then you're taking up too much space."
Some people can relate to that quote, other's can't. Some people feel that way, other's don't. Sorry she lost her life, but I can certainly understand the appeal of what she was doing.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,386
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,386 |
The cold is never to be trifled with. The age of cell phones and rescue beacons has greatly increased the incidences of Darwinesque misadventure in the cold.
Like flying, one mistake is usually sufficient to introduce life-ending trama.
It appears she made a number of mistakes....
“Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General
John Stark.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,294
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,294 |
If you do something stupid you are free game. Ask me how I know. If I cut a hole in the ice and went swimming then died of hypothermia pretty sure the post would look like this. She did the exact same thing.
W
"I would build one again, if it were not for my 350RM (grin)."
MtnHtr
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,255
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,255 |
Living on the edge? BASE jumping is legal off a 480' bridge here and people come from all over the world to do it. We have several accidents a year, usually from someone doing something even more stupid than jumping in the 1st place.
For example, last summer 2 guys wanted to do a tandem so one stood on the railing of the bridge while the 2d climbed up on his shoulders. Before they were ready, the 1st one fell off. The 2d one hit the railing as he fell. The 1st one popped his chute but the 2d one came down on top of it and partially collapsed it. Amazingly they both survived but were in critical condition for a long time.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474 |
The worst part to me is not dying in weather than can kill you.
Its those that die from hypothermia when its wet and 50 and don't have a clue it can still kill you.
Now where do I find that dead horse icon....
God rest her soul.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,149
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,149 |
There are a lot of ways to check out. It is a certainty that each of us will choose one.
Having spent many, many years working as a professional ski patrolman as well as being active in an Oregon mountain rescue group, I have seen my share of questionable calls gone south, some permanently.
This woman may have let her enthusiasm outrun her skill level but at least she was in the game. Among the folks who have followed this thread are many who's cause of death will be inactivity, obesity, alcoholism and/or drugs. All of them stupid choices with consequences identical to those suffered by this woman on Washington.
Yeah, she probably screwed up but at least she did so with a degree of style, unlike those timid souls who never can bring themselves to walk up to the edge of the cliff.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,327
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,327 |
Living life is one thing. Doing stupid suicidal crap is something else entirely.
You want to rappel down a cliff? GREAT! But go ahead and LIVE LIFE TO ITS FULLEST, and do it with some WalMart carabiners and some clothesline or frayed rope from Lowes. I mean, that's LIVING ON THE EDGE RIGHT!
Doesn't sound very smart huh?
Stupidity isn't an admirable trait in spite of some on here's admiration of this "adventuresome" woman. She didn't simply get in trouble while practicing her passion for adventure (which any of us could do), she didn't get in over her head, she went in over her head. She made a bad, foolhardy, decision and paid for it.
Thanks, I'll take my chances on the couch before intentionally walking into certain life threatening conditions. Call me a wuss but I have a family that needs me (as did she).
"Ole Snubbie died trying to kayak over Niagra Falls. The boy had spunk and knew how to live!"
No, he was stupid, plain and simple.
This thread has a high content of BS, just sayin...
Gloria In Excelsis Deo!As far as gear goes.. The poorer (or cheaper) you are, the tougher you need to be. gpopecustomknives.com
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,327
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,327 |
Here, read this again... Some thoughts... 1). How the media came up with the idea she was "experienced" I have no idea. A walk-up Kilamanjaro (usually guided), and some rock climbing doesn't amount to tackling the Presidential Traverse in extreme weather. There's no possible way she was "experienced" with that sort of weather, based on a multitude of incredibly stupid decisions. The stupid decisions include: a). Starting at all given the forecast, and continuing given the weather at timberline. According to SAS: b). She Carried no snowshoes. The Whites had gotten 10' of snow. Only reason she could get up the trail to timberline was because a previous party had broken the trail for her. Not sure what she thought she was going to do in an emergency drop off into the timber? c). She carried NO SLEEPING BAG. d). She carried NO SHELTER, tent or bivi bag. The last two in particular cost her her life. Going "light" in the winter mountains above timberline is one of those thing you just don't do, ever. The winter highcountry is just not forgiving. On every trail at timberline in the Presidential's there is a warning sign about dieing in bad weather, and a warning to turn back. All the phugging blather like "she died what she loved doing" is the sort of empty, stupid platitude people pull out of their azzzes when someone dies an untimely and preventable death. I guarantee her loved ones are in agony and aren't thinking "she died what she loved doing." I guarantee as she was dying, and knew it, she wasn't thinking in terms of oft quoted platitudes. I'm so sad for her and her loved ones, but I'm not going to paint this as anything other than it is, a preventable, empty tragedy. Silver linings don't exist with something like this. It just flatly sucks for all those left behind.
Gloria In Excelsis Deo!As far as gear goes.. The poorer (or cheaper) you are, the tougher you need to be. gpopecustomknives.com
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 878
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 878 |
Just another dumb azz I grew up in NH camping in the winter she had no business being up there she got what she deserved just to bad
|
|
|
|
|
554 members (16Racing, 163bc, 1badf350, 10Glocks, 10gaugeman, 1_deuce, 55 invisible),
2,505
guests, and
1,348
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,190,673
Posts18,456,052
Members73,909
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
