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Since I have been hunting deer and other game for a lifetime here is how and why I chose the rifle I use prefer.

Most of my game hunting has been in Vermont where I have had a cabin for most of my life. We have hunted from there since 1964.

Right now its ready and the heat is on!

The hunting there has required that it be a buck with antlers.

Very few hunters get anything there.

The success rate has been about 10%, ie: one in ten get a buck!

I determined that if I had a powerful rifle and practiced with it I would get more.

I chose my Savage 99 F in .358 Winchester.

We run running deer matches at our rifle club here. I participate in them and in others in the region.

I tested rifles chambered for various cartridges and learned about bush cartridges.

I know a hunter will do better for this hunting shooting the most powerful rifle they can handle!

Those that use tiny cartridges for hunting are passing up shots and hurting our sport of hunting.

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Please make sure someone from your family lets us know when you pass.


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Originally Posted by Savage_99

Those that use tiny cartridges for hunting are passing up shots and hurting our sport of hunting.

Originally Posted by Savage_99

Most of my game hunting has been in Vermont where I have had a cabin for most of my life.


The emperor of campfire provincialism. smile


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Trolling at its finest…

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A turd of a turd Brush cartridges you really are a dolt


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Select a rifle hunting cartridge that is "Enough Gun" and not one designed to just wound the enemy!

"When the debate is lost insults become the tool of the loser"
Socrates


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Originally Posted by Steelhead
Please make sure someone from your family lets us know when you pass.


Now you gotta admit that that is funny!!!

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Originally Posted by Savage_99
Select a rifle hunting cartridge that is "Enough Gun" and not one designed to just wound the enemy!

"When the debate is lost insults become the tool of the loser"
Socrates


No insult here, just a dead spike, via a .223...launched from an evil black rifle, too...

[Linked Image]


He ran 30 yards, and was done. Not unlike results from larger calibers. smile


"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."

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I don't care what size cartridge a guy uses just so its legal. But I do agree that Vermont deer hunting sucks! You definitely can't afford to pass up a shot at a buck in VT. I've seen more bulls than bucks in VT but now the Moose are gone too.

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I have Savage 99Fs in 358 and find that because of the stock design and weight, it is an uncomfortable rifle to shoot and, therefore, to shoot particularly well.

Vermont sucks as a hunting destination! A small deer herd means that you can go multiple years without even seeing a legal deer. Who, if they had a choice, would choose to hunt deer in Vermont? I used to hunt deer in ME, NH, and VT when I lived in New England and did a little better than average, but I hunted all over NH and VT.

The sport of hunting is diminishing in New England because more and more land is being posted, not because people aren't shooting deer with cartridges that you approve of. How hard is it to kill a deer? Shoot 'em though the lungs with a properly constructed bullet and they die in short order. I find that the combination of 22-250 and 60 grain Partition is easy to shoot, accurate, and deadly. If you tried it, you might like it.

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You haven't hunted a thing.


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Originally Posted by Savage_99

Most of my game hunting has been in Vermont where I have had a cabin for most of my life.
Translation - I've shot fewer deer than just about anyone else here and therefore have the least experience on which to base my opinion.

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In many ways I agree with Savage 99. Robert Ruark was correct.

Those idiots who think that a 223 is perfect for deer and black bear are repugnant. To brag about how small a cartridge that you can kill something with is disgusting. To take any life and not give it a good death is disgusting. I think that these disgusting dolts should be sentenced to perhaps a miserable, slow, death by cancer. Give them what they deserve.

These thoughts are not provincialism. They are human decency. Our game deserves more than that from us. I always thought that whitetail rounds began with something like a 250 Savage, and went up in power from there.

I have taken but one critter in my life bigger than a whitetail, and that was an Alaskan bull moose. I used a 7mm Rem Mag with a 160 partition. As I looked in awe at it on the ground, my first thought was, "the guys are right... the Alaskan minimum for moose should be 30 caliber and up."

I promised myself, at that time, that if I ever took another Alaskan moose I would have a 338. "I" wasn't in a survival situation. "I" should be a better, more decent, person for having the privilege of taking that large Alaskan moose.

Sitting up in a tree and taking headshots "only" at 25 feet, over a corn pile, at night, is not hunting. There is a difference.

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Ain't seen a deer die faster than being shot through both shoulders with a 62 gr TTSX from a .22-250AI, it's like Zeus's lightning.Shot them with cartridges as large as .338-06 and 12 ga slugs and all points and places in between
Keep on guessing and preaching your bull crap unfounded morals
You can bullshit the fans but not the players
Keep guessing while I keep killing


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Originally Posted by swarf
In many ways I agree with Savage 99. Robert Ruark was correct.

Those idiots who think that a 223 is perfect for deer and black bear are repugnant. To brag about how small a cartridge that you can kill something with is disgusting. To take any life and not give it a good death is disgusting. I think that these disgusting dolts should be sentenced to perhaps a miserable, slow, death by cancer. Give them what they deserve.

These thoughts are not provincialism. They are human decency. Our game deserves more than that from us. I always thought that whitetail rounds began with something like a 250 Savage, and went up in power from there.

I have taken but one critter in my life bigger than a whitetail, and that was an Alaskan bull moose. I used a 7mm Rem Mag with a 160 partition. As I looked in awe at it on the ground, my first thought was, "the guys are right... the Alaskan minimum for moose should be 30 caliber and up."

I promised myself, at that time, that if I ever took another Alaskan moose I would have a 338. "I" wasn't in a survival situation. "I" should be a better, more decent, person for having the privilege of taking that large Alaskan moose.

Sitting up in a tree and taking headshots "only" at 25 feet, over a corn pile, at night, is not hunting. There is a difference.




Newsflash Chief, I've killed Moose with the .30-30, .30-06, and .450 Marlin and it doesn't matter what cartridge you use. They soak up lead and either stand there looking stupid or run off and collapse. And when they're down you still have to wait about two minutes for them to die.

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Bit extreme, old boy, in hunting for exactly the same period as Savage 99, all over BC and working for many years all over BC, much of wilderness Alberta and some of our Canadian northern territories, I have seen a fair amount of game kills including about a dozen Grizzlies.

I LOVE the .338WM-250 NP, but, this is due to living alone in remote Grizzly country on BCFS Lookouts, where you had only your own resources to stay safe and help was OFTEN NOT available due to weather.

However, I have seen a LOT of big Elk, Moose and one Grizzly killed dead with the .270Win and most guys used .30-06s. I had mentors who shot hundreds of game animals for food in the Depression and later, legally, as Canadian government workers in the north.

The BEST of these used 7x57, .30-40 and .30-06 rifles and a .308Win. 180NP has been the choice of a LOT of real pro bushmen I have known.

I read Hemingway's imitator, Ruark, at the time I started this period of my life and he was, here in BC, pretty much a joke.

All of this said, S-99 is not the most credible poster here on such issues, but, seems to have some nice rifles. A bit too much enthusiasm and very little bush time, IMHO.

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Originally Posted by swarf
I always thought that whitetail rounds began with something like a 250 Savage, and went up in power from there.



So a .243 isn't a deer round then. Check.

You're in shotgun country in Ohio, yes?
I'd rather shoot a deer with a good bullet in a 22.250 than shoot them with a shotgun slug.


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Originally Posted by swarf
Those idiots who think that a 223 is perfect for deer and black bear are repugnant. To brag about how small a cartridge that you can kill something with is disgusting.


How many deer have you shot with the .223? How did it fail you?


Originally Posted by swarf
I always thought that whitetail rounds began with something like a 250 Savage, and went up in power from there.


What did you base that on? How many deer have you shot with smaller cartridges? Which cartridges? Under what circumstances did they fail?


Originally Posted by swarf
have taken but one critter in my life bigger than a whitetail, and that was an Alaskan bull moose. I used a 7mm Rem Mag with a 160 partition. As I looked in awe at it on the ground, my first thought was, "the guys are right... the Alaskan minimum for moose should be 30 caliber and up."


Now this one is a real peach! You are looking at a dead moose on the ground and think the cartridge/bullet combo failed you? How far did the moose make it after you shot him? What was the shot placement?


Originally Posted by swarf
Sitting up in a tree and taking headshots "only" at 25 feet, over a corn pile, at night, is not hunting. There is a difference.


Well doing it night is likely illegal. But suppose you were sitting watching a stand of white oaks? Is that somehow different? How about watching a watering hole? Is that not hunting either?

Wow…

John


If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
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Originally Posted by swarf

Those idiots who think that a 223 is perfect for deer and black bear are repugnant. To brag about how small a cartridge that you can kill something with is disgusting. To take any life and not give it a good death is disgusting. I think that these disgusting dolts should be sentenced to perhaps a miserable, slow, death by cancer. Give them what they deserve.



You must be a Christian.



Travis


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Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
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Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
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Savage99, I would get the biggest caliber you can find..............to Compensate!

If your already packing............... a 223AI just might be sufficient!

Shod

Last edited by Shodd; 02/17/15.

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Originally Posted by tzone
You haven't hunted a thing.


Exactly! A lot of guys shoot more deer in a season than a hunter in northern New England might see in a season, maybe even in more than one season.

Why my high school hunting buddies come to shoot deer in Nebraska for the first time, I have a hard time keeping them from shooting the first buck that they see. When they've sat in a blind for a couple of days, seen dozens, maybe hundreds, of deer feeding in river bottom soybean fields, they become a bit more selective. Now they come and take lots of pictures to show their friends back home. Many of those people say that sitting in a raised platform stand overlooking a cut bean or corn field isn't hunting, 'cause it is too easy when compared to tracking through knee deep snow.

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My 223 squirting 75 Amax's killed the hell outta 6 Does over 3 days last November. Not one ran more than 20 yds and my freezer is full. Guess I'm doing schit the wrong way
Savage doesn't know his azz from his elbow....poor sapp

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Originally Posted by Savage_99
Select a rifle hunting cartridge that is "Enough Gun" and not one designed to just wound the enemy!


This is simply and factually an incorrect statement. The 5.56 NATO round was not designed to wound, and kills rather effectively. Once again, you show you have no idea what you are talking about.

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A 223 will kill any deer that walks this earth.It is not the perfect deer round by a long shot.I do not get the argument.No kidding it will kill a deer shot in the ribs but shoot the same deer at a hard angle and see how it works for you.If you just take perfect broadside shots shoot what ever the F you want but a good woods round should have enough guts to kill at all angles.

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Originally Posted by deflave
Originally Posted by swarf

Those idiots who think that a 223 is perfect for deer and black bear are repugnant. To brag about how small a cartridge that you can kill something with is disgusting. To take any life and not give it a good death is disgusting. I think that these disgusting dolts should be sentenced to perhaps a miserable, slow, death by cancer. Give them what they deserve.



You must be a Christian.



Travis


That was uncalled for.

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Originally Posted by driftless
A 223 will kill any deer that walks this earth.It is not the perfect deer round by a long shot.I do not get the argument.No kidding it will kill a deer shot in the ribs but shoot the same deer at a hard angle and see how it works for you.If you just take perfect broadside shots shoot what ever the F you want but a good woods round should have enough guts to kill at all angles.



Barnes

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I agree that being as humane as possible to the deer is important,..I have shot several deer with my old 222 using regular old 50 grain soft points,and I have been very careful to take only neck shots,.The last one I shot dropped in her tracks,but would kick like she wanted to get up.I waved my hands in front of her face,and got no reaction so I didn't shoot her again .I don't think she knew ,or felt anything..I do think a 222 is a little light to be a good deer rifle.My primary deer rifle has been a 270 until this year ,when I switched to a 250..A small caliber forces a concintious hunter to take only well placed shots.That's what makes them deadly..Just because someone hunts with a cannon don't mean you can just take pot shots at running deer.That's a recipe for gut shooting,or shooting the leg in two at the elbow..Even though the bucks are few,and far between were you hunt you still need to place your shots well.

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Originally Posted by bigswede358
Originally Posted by deflave
Originally Posted by swarf

Those idiots who think that a 223 is perfect for deer and black bear are repugnant. To brag about how small a cartridge that you can kill something with is disgusting. To take any life and not give it a good death is disgusting. I think that these disgusting dolts should be sentenced to perhaps a miserable, slow, death by cancer. Give them what they deserve.



You must be a Christian.



Travis


That was uncalled for.


What is?



Travis


Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
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Barnes right on... How about a Barnes in a 243,25,6.5,270,7mm,30 on and on they all have more going for them.Hey I yous the 223 on deer it works fine on broadside shots on does with plain 55gr bullets.It is a long ways from being a perfect deer round.

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Originally Posted by Savage_99


Most of my game hunting has been in Vermont

Very few hunters get anything there.

I determined that if I had a powerful rifle and practiced with it I would get more.

Those that use tiny cartridges for hunting are passing up shots and hurting our sport of hunting.



I guess I don't understand this thought process. Let me see if I follow:

"I hunt where there are no deer. If I use a bigger rifle I will get more. Those who pass up shots hurt the sport."

Since I will be doing some fishing soon, even if I fish where there are no fish, I will catch more fish if I use a bigger fishing rod? And if I fish with a smaller rig I hurt the sport?
SMH. cool


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Originally Posted by driftless
Barnes right on... How about a Barnes in a 243,25,6.5,270,7mm,30 on and on they all have more going for them.Hey I yous the 223 on deer it works fine on broadside shots on does with plain 55gr bullets.It is a long ways from being a perfect deer round.


I've never not taken out shoulders with a 223. I'm certain your experience rivals Don's.


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Originally Posted by deflave
Originally Posted by swarf

Those idiots who think that a 223 is perfect for deer and black bear are repugnant. To brag about how small a cartridge that you can kill something with is disgusting. To take any life and not give it a good death is disgusting. I think that these disgusting dolts should be sentenced to perhaps a miserable, slow, death by cancer. Give them what they deserve.



You must be a Christian.



Travis




Why? I'm Christian. A Pastor even! And I don't agree with anything he posted.

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Originally Posted by moosemike

Why? I'm Christian. A Pastor even! And I don't agree with anything he posted.


I'm guessing they don't have a semester dedicated to humor when you go to Pastor School?



Travis


Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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There's nothing funny about Christians, you heartless bastard...


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Humor often goes right over my head. At least thats what my wife tells me. laugh

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Back to the topic ;Ive honestly found the .243 to be as effective on deer as the .30-06. I don't buy this .250-3000 minimum nor do I think the .358 is connecting a whole lot of dots in VT vs. any number of cartridges.

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I have killed a few deer in my life, the ones that travelled the farthest when hit properly were shot with a .458 winchester. I have never used a .224 bullet to kill a deer , but have the utmost confidence they will kill better then an ass shot with a .358.....
Just my opinion and worth what you paid for it.

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Swarf,

Are you really that stupid or were you just being a silly-nilly?




Dave


Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
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These are two pretty handy rifles for "woods" hunting. The top one is a Remington model 7 predator re chambered to 358 win in an HS Precision stock. The bottom one is obviously a T3 chopped, threaded and chambered in 7mm -08.

[Linked Image]

I have taken two bucks and four does with the 7mm-08 Hornady Lite 120 gr load and each one literally dropped in their tracks with shoulder or frontal shots. Here is the jacket of one that I recovered after it had penetrated about 24".

[Linked Image]

I took this deer with the 358 and one 200 gr silvertip. The shot was a short quartering away. The fully intact stomach can be seen in the background where it fell out during the death run of about 50 yards. A stocking cap was placed for easy location.

[Linked Image]

I enjoy shooting the 7mm. It barely has any recoil and prints boner inspiring groups at 100 yards. The 358 launches a 200 gr bullet at about the same speed that the 7mm does the 120 gr bullet. They both would make awesome "woods" rifles.


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Swarf is giving dumb don a real run in the stupid race.


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I am glad we have X-purts like savage 99 and swarf to guide us in choosing a proper deer caliber. The hundreds I have killed well I guess I was just lucky and I do not even want to talk about moose and elk.

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The only deer I killed this year was with an arrow,,, 200Ft per second and 300 ft lbs??? and it was enough.. Now ,,if a 250 Sav with 1,500 FT lbs is barely enough for a 150 lb deer I guess it's safe to say a moose that is ten times the weight ,, you should need 15,000 ft lbs to kill a moose. ??? Does this make sense?? No?

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The .223's work but I've found the best results using a 40MPH truck bumper.



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A Ski-doo Mach1 at about 97mph does a helluva job too.

Was quite a mess and expensive bill. Had to throw out my jacket.


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I can imagine.



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I never really felt over-gunned shooting mule deer(bucks) with a 300 WSM.
Inside of 200 yards I would say a 223 will knock one down fairly easily on most shots. At 400 yards a 300 WSM will have more thump.


Never hit any big game yet in a vehicle(knock on wood).

Hit a cow on a 4-wheeler and bent/cracked some chit last fall but she ran off unscathed. Wasn't even our cow...

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Originally Posted by TJAY
I am glad we have X-purts like savage 99 and swarf to guide us in choosing a proper deer caliber.


I'll say they got the street cred I'll tell ya, we're blessed.

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Originally Posted by swarf
In many ways I agree with Savage 99. Robert Ruark was correct.

Those idiots who think that a 223 is perfect for deer and black bear are repugnant. To brag about how small a cartridge that you can kill something with is disgusting. To take any life and not give it a good death is disgusting. I think that these disgusting dolts should be sentenced to perhaps a miserable, slow, death by cancer. Give them what they deserve.

These thoughts are not provincialism. They are human decency. Our game deserves more than that from us. I always thought that whitetail rounds began with something like a 250 Savage, and went up in power from there.

I have taken but one critter in my life bigger than a whitetail, and that was an Alaskan bull moose. I used a 7mm Rem Mag with a 160 partition. As I looked in awe at it on the ground, my first thought was, "the guys are right... the Alaskan minimum for moose should be 30 caliber and up."

I promised myself, at that time, that if I ever took another Alaskan moose I would have a 338. "I" wasn't in a survival situation. "I" should be a better, more decent, person for having the privilege of taking that large Alaskan moose.

Sitting up in a tree and taking headshots "only" at 25 feet, over a corn pile, at night, is not hunting. There is a difference.


WOW!!!

Excuse me for a second while I wait for my son to pick up the phone. You see he killed a huge-bodied bull moose, a modest brown bear, two caribou, and a mountain goat in the last two years with a 25-06 shooting 80gr bullets...

Oh, his message was GFY! At 21 he is a little rough around the corners... I suspect he will mature and realize the body count means nothing and he needs to look at getting a bigger rifle...


Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Originally Posted by SamOlson
I never really felt over-gunned shooting mule deer(bucks) with a 300 WSM.
Inside of 200 yards I would say a 223 will knock one down fairly easily on most shots. At 400 yards a 300 WSM will have more thump.


Never hit any big game yet in a vehicle(knock on wood).



Dude! You sure you work in the country?! (Grins)

Originally Posted by SamOlson
Hit a cow on a 4-wheeler and bent/cracked some chit last fall but she ran off unscathed. Wasn't even our cow...


Okay. That figures.....


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Originally Posted by Savage_99


I chose my Savage 99 F in .358 Winchester.



all the other silly comments aside, a pre-mil Model 99 in .358 would be a pretty sweet thumper.


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Originally Posted by TexasPhotog
Originally Posted by SamOlson
I never really felt over-gunned shooting mule deer(bucks) with a 300 WSM.
Inside of 200 yards I would say a 223 will knock one down fairly easily on most shots. At 400 yards a 300 WSM will have more thump.


Never hit any big game yet in a vehicle(knock on wood).



Dude! You sure you work in the country?! (Grins)

Originally Posted by SamOlson
Hit a cow on a 4-wheeler and bent/cracked some chit last fall but she ran off unscathed. Wasn't even our cow...


Okay. That figures.....




Almost hit about 8 deer, and I'm pretty sure I'm the only person I know who has never hit one!

Chitload of deer hit on the road at night by the farm. People driving too fast.

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Originally Posted by Savage_99
Since I have been hunting deer and other game for a lifetime here is how and why I chose the rifle I use prefer.

Most of my game hunting has been in Vermont where I have had a cabin for most of my life. We have hunted from there since 1964.

Right now its ready and the heat is on!

The hunting there has required that it be a buck with antlers.

Very few hunters get anything there.

The success rate has been about 10%, ie: one in ten get a buck!

I determined that if I had a powerful rifle and practiced with it I would get more.

I chose my Savage 99 F in .358 Winchester.

We run running deer matches at our rifle club here. I participate in them and in others in the region.

I tested rifles chambered for various cartridges and learned about bush cartridges.

I know a hunter will do better for this hunting shooting the most powerful rifle they can handle!

Those that use tiny cartridges for hunting are passing up shots and hurting our sport of hunting.

[Linked Image]




........................An interesting post.

I notice in your original subject heading or headline the word "my". Well that is where things should stay imo. Sure! The 358 Win is a good woods round. But it is not the only nor is it the best possible solution for that usage.

If using "tiny cartridges" as you put it, are causing passing up on shots, then I suggest to you that it isn't the fault of those tiny cartridges. Regardless of caliber, the shots need to be properly placed along with using a good and proper bullet.

Using the most powerful rifle a person can handle will somehow make a hunter do better??? Oh really???

Well I can easily handle a friends 460 Wby. So does that mean that a 460 Wby is my best choice to use in the woods???

Although I don't own a high powered 22 caliber rifle, I have seen what they can do on deer and on hogs. Quite efficient.

The content in your original post is an emotional opinion at best. And the few who agree with you also bear the same emotional opinion.

Maybe the next time I do some woods hunting for elk sized game and smaller, I should leave my 300 WSM at home and take my 375 Ruger Alaskan?......LOL

The 300 WSM may not be powerful enough,,,,and it may cause me to pass on a few shots too???....LOL....LOL

Feelings,,,,nothing more than feelings......LOL laugh laugh laugh



28 Nosler,,,,300WSM,,,,338-378 Wby,,,,375 Ruger


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Fretting over what someone else uses seems like a colossal waste of time.

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Well, with S-99, the issue is "waste", in more ways than one.......

I have had the "pleasure" of his critical and, as one would expect, false comments directed at me and others here and on AR in past years. I soon realized that, while he DOES appear to own some nice rifles, he knows about as much about real hunting and wilderness life as "Mooshell" does about being a real lady.....

What can ya do, some do and some do not.......

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I love these "use a big gun, hit 'em wrong,and still blow 'em off their feet" kinda threads. smile





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The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Funny that Savage 99 started this fire and Swarf stopped by to douse it in gasoline, and now they're both pretty hard to find. If you're going to state your opinions guys, at least have the courage to defend them. Anybody can hit and run. And Swarf, I'm very eager to hear about how much more effective the .250-3000 is than the .243.

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Originally Posted by Savage_99






Those that use tiny cartridges for hunting are passing up shots and hurting our sport of hunting.








How is passing up on a shot that youre not confident in a bad thing?
Larger caliber doesn't compensate for poor marksmanship!
The last part of your sentence "hurting our sport of hunting" WTH do you mean by that??




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This mess started here:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...ghtweight_stalking_woods_rif#Post9605841

I was looking for a lightweight rig pushing lightweight caliber choices and threw it out to the Fire to pick on. Next thing you know Savage 99 is talking about wounding the enemy of some army and was heartfelt about animals and I'm really confused as to what the hell he is talking about??? crazy

Savage I think you're a little high strung, buddy. Take a nap, have a cold one, talk to Jesus. I don't think anyone here is intentionally out to gut shoot dinks with a pellet gun!

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I'm sure there are only 2 people that posted on this thread that dumb Don doesn't have on ignore.


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Originally Posted by Steelhead
I'm sure there are only 2 people that posted on this thread that dumb Don doesn't have on ignore.


Guess he may have a couple more on ignore now.


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Originally Posted by tex_n_cal
Originally Posted by Savage_99
Select a rifle hunting cartridge that is "Enough Gun" and not one designed to just wound the enemy!

"When the debate is lost insults become the tool of the loser"
Socrates


No insult here, just a dead spike, via a .223...launched from an evil black rifle, too...

[Linked Image]


He ran 30 yards, and was done. Not unlike results from larger calibers. smile


Couldn't help but notice the blue tape over the flash supressor. laugh


Nut


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Originally Posted by 1Deernut
Originally Posted by tex_n_cal
Originally Posted by Savage_99
Select a rifle hunting cartridge that is "Enough Gun" and not one designed to just wound the enemy!

"When the debate is lost insults become the tool of the loser"
Socrates


No insult here, just a dead spike, via a .223...launched from an evil black rifle, too...

[Linked Image]


He ran 30 yards, and was done. Not unlike results from larger calibers. smile


Couldn't help but notice the blue tape over the flash supressor. laugh



Blue tape turns it into a silencer.


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or keeps the rain out smirk


"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."

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Originally Posted by tex_n_cal
or keeps the rain out smirk


Nope silencer, black tape is to keep the rain out. Red tape makes them go faster.


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Originally Posted by Steelhead
Please make sure someone from your family lets us know when you pass.


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Originally Posted by Bearcat74
Originally Posted by tex_n_cal
or keeps the rain out smirk


Nope silencer, black tape is to keep the rain out. Red tape makes them go faster.


Thanks, I feel smarter now. grin



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Originally Posted by Bearcat74
Originally Posted by tex_n_cal
or keeps the rain out smirk


Nope silencer, black tape is to keep the rain out. Red tape makes them go faster.


green tape make them more accurate? smirk


"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."

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Originally Posted by tex_n_cal
Originally Posted by Bearcat74
Originally Posted by tex_n_cal
or keeps the rain out smirk


Nope silencer, black tape is to keep the rain out. Red tape makes them go faster.


green tape make them more accurate? smirk


in any case, I'm probably on ignore now, for putting a pic of an evil black rifle on his thread grin


"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."

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Originally Posted by tex_n_cal
Originally Posted by Bearcat74
Originally Posted by tex_n_cal
or keeps the rain out smirk


Nope silencer, black tape is to keep the rain out. Red tape makes them go faster.


green tape make them more accurate? smirk



You have green tape? Green tape makes it lucky, lucky to the point of you don't need to aim, work up loads or concern yourself with trivial details rifle related. You simply point in the general direction of your target and let one fly, game over.

Congrats on the green tape but be careful because with great power comes great responsibility.


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I worked up a great load for deer. 3400lbs at 80.7fps. didn't even have to clean my rifle, it just stayed in the rack. Slam bang thank you m'am

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You fellas are just way out there,the best "woods rifle" is the B-29.

Get with the program.


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Originally Posted by tex_n_cal
Originally Posted by tex_n_cal
Originally Posted by Bearcat74
Originally Posted by tex_n_cal
or keeps the rain out smirk


Nope silencer, black tape is to keep the rain out. Red tape makes them go faster.


green tape make them more accurate? smirk


in any case, I'm probably on ignore now, for putting a pic of an evil black rifle on his thread grin



There are pwople he doesn't haveon ignore?


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Well, let's see. My attack on slob hunters and a lack of judgment has turned into an attack on even God.

Well, more people have been killed in the name of God than any other single thing, and it seems they still are doing just that. I am 67 years old, and have known many professed Christians whose Christianity has only been an asset to them, and they still have been a detriment to society...as long as they followed the pro-forma "they" where alright.

Knowledge does not grow on trees, and many people are incapable of good judgment through a long life.

I never implied that that a 6mm with appropriate bullets was not an adequate deer rifle. There are appropriate bullets, and there are appropriate effective ranges limits for every cartridge combination.

I live in a developed area and state. There is little public land. When I ask a land owner if I may hunt groundhogs on his property with my 221 Fireball, or 22-250 with lightly constructed bullets many now say, "no way!" This is because the last idiot that he permitted on his property had his AR and assaulted a charging, fast firing, 200 yard distant groundhog by bracketing it with a barrage of at least 6-8 rounds. Many times these are the "cheapest" from Walmart, or wherever. The landowner then says, "all of those bullets go somewhere...." Next year up go "No Hunting" signs.

I have done most of my deer hunting in PA. Shots can be close, or over a power line. The record black bear is in excess of 600 pounds. I think that last year three were taken that were over 500 pounds.

I have taken my last few deer in PA with a patched round ball, and a traditional flintlock muzzle loader. The last year I hunted I didn't take a deer. Everything that I could get close to was so small that it wasn't worth getting my hands dirty.

By the way, I do have a niece custom 358 Win, and I do hope to take a deer with it and my own home cast bullet, and I'd call that a 100 yard or less project.

I try to be an ethical person, I try to exercise good judgment, I try not to be a hypocrite. When I hunt I am usually an outsider. I travel a distance, spend money, and attempt to give my self, my game, and all around me, a quality experience with their exposure too me. I want to be welcomed back, able to come back, and at least be a pleasant memory, if I never get back.

I want to appreciate my game, my companions, and my environment. I feel that I'm lucky to have all of them.

If this "my" attitude pees in someone's campfire because my attitude offends you - too bad. It should in some cases.

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You can have any attitude you like...you just don't know [bleep] from shinola
How many of them 600lb bears you killed?


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Originally Posted by swarf
Well, let's see. My attack on slob hunters and a lack of judgment has turned into an attack on even God.

Well, more people have been killed in the name of God than any other single thing, and it seems they still are doing just that. I am 67 years old, and have known many professed Christians whose Christianity has only been an asset to them, and they still have been a detriment to society...as long as they followed the pro-forma "they" where alright.

Knowledge does not grow on trees, and many people are incapable of good judgment through a long life.

I never implied that that a 6mm with appropriate bullets was not an adequate deer rifle. There are appropriate bullets, and there are appropriate effective ranges limits for every cartridge combination.

I live in a developed area and state. There is little public land. When I ask a land owner if I may hunt groundhogs on his property with my 221 Fireball, or 22-250 with lightly constructed bullets many now say, "no way!" This is because the last idiot that he permitted on his property had his AR and assaulted a charging, fast firing, 200 yard distant groundhog by bracketing it with a barrage of at least 6-8 rounds. Many times these are the "cheapest" from Walmart, or wherever. The landowner then says, "all of those bullets go somewhere...." Next year up go "No Hunting" signs.

I have done most of my deer hunting in PA. Shots can be close, or over a power line. The record black bear is in excess of 600 pounds. I think that last year three were taken that were over 500 pounds.

I have taken my last few deer in PA with a patched round ball, and a traditional flintlock muzzle loader. The last year I hunted I didn't take a deer. Everything that I could get close to was so small that it wasn't worth getting my hands dirty.

By the way, I do have a niece custom 358 Win, and I do hope to take a deer with it and my own home cast bullet, and I'd call that a 100 yard or less project.

I try to be an ethical person, I try to exercise good judgment, I try not to be a hypocrite. When I hunt I am usually an outsider. I travel a distance, spend money, and attempt to give my self, my game, and all around me, a quality experience with their exposure too me. I want to be welcomed back, able to come back, and at least be a pleasant memory, if I never get back.

I want to appreciate my game, my companions, and my environment. I feel that I'm lucky to have all of them.

If this "my" attitude pees in someone's campfire because my attitude offends you - too bad. It should in some cases.


Cliff notes, you're an idiot.


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Originally Posted by swarf
Well, let's see. My attack on slob hunters and a lack of judgment has turned into an attack on even God.

Well, more people have been killed in the name of God than any other single thing, and it seems they still are doing just that. I am 67 years old, and have known many professed Christians whose Christianity has only been an asset to them, and they still have been a detriment to society...as long as they followed the pro-forma "they" where alright.

Knowledge does not grow on trees, and many people are incapable of good judgment through a long life.

I never implied that that a 6mm with appropriate bullets was not an adequate deer rifle. There are appropriate bullets, and there are appropriate effective ranges limits for every cartridge combination.

I live in a developed area and state. There is little public land. When I ask a land owner if I may hunt groundhogs on his property with my 221 Fireball, or 22-250 with lightly constructed bullets many now say, "no way!" This is because the last idiot that he permitted on his property had his AR and assaulted a charging, fast firing, 200 yard distant groundhog by bracketing it with a barrage of at least 6-8 rounds. Many times these are the "cheapest" from Walmart, or wherever. The landowner then says, "all of those bullets go somewhere...." Next year up go "No Hunting" signs.

I have done most of my deer hunting in PA. Shots can be close, or over a power line. The record black bear is in excess of 600 pounds. I think that last year three were taken that were over 500 pounds.

I have taken my last few deer in PA with a patched round ball, and a traditional flintlock muzzle loader. The last year I hunted I didn't take a deer. Everything that I could get close to was so small that it wasn't worth getting my hands dirty.

By the way, I do have a niece custom 358 Win, and I do hope to take a deer with it and my own home cast bullet, and I'd call that a 100 yard or less project.

I try to be an ethical person, I try to exercise good judgment, I try not to be a hypocrite. When I hunt I am usually an outsider. I travel a distance, spend money, and attempt to give my self, my game, and all around me, a quality experience with their exposure too me. I want to be welcomed back, able to come back, and at least be a pleasant memory, if I never get back.

I want to appreciate my game, my companions, and my environment. I feel that I'm lucky to have all of them.

If this "my" attitude pees in someone's campfire because my attitude offends you - too bad. It should in some cases.
You have your own opinion,as do we all,but you start your post by refering to anyone with different opinion as idiots,and slob hunters.Idiot-slob hunters do exist,as we all know .Who hasn't been deer hunting,and hears BOOM,BOOM,BOOM,BOOM,BOOM,It aint that these type idiots aint using enough gun,usually it's just the oppisite they usually have the big boom from heavier calibers,usually when you hear them ringing shots there aint but one.That first guy started this post as saying he was using a 358 to increase his odds for whitetail,which is his option,but then he ridiculed everyone else that wasn't going after whitetail with a cannon,, To me the ONLY logic I see in using his 358 to increase his odds is that he intends to shoot at the first glimps of a buck with little regard to shot placement,To me this is slob hunting

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Originally Posted by swarf



Blah, blah, blah..




Originally Posted by captain seafire
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...
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The majority of slob hunters I've seen in PA carry .30-06's of the slide action Remington variety. No prejudice on my part since the .30-6 is my favorite cartridge. Also PA's record Bear goes well over 800 lbs. Every year PA produces multiple 600 lb bruins.

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Originally Posted by swarf
I travel a distance, spend money, and attempt to give my self, my game, and all around me, a quality experience with their exposure too me.


If you are actually out hunting to get an animal,and are successful, I don't think that animal will agree that it had a "quality experience with their exposure to(not too) me"

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Beautiful

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Here are some 99 Savage killed deer. A late season shed buck with a .22 HiPower, went right down. One with a .358 Featherweight, went right down. A nice sized doe with a 30-30, hit both lungs. This deer trotted farther than any deer I ever hit in what people call "The vitals". Guess we should leave the 30-30's at home.


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Those are what I would call "typical" deer. A pretty nice 7 point(or 8 if I had killed him laugh ), a doe, and the other buck would likely be a 4 or 6 point had he not shed....hard to say. He does not look to me to be as big as the 7 point.

Folks, take a good look at them. Note how NARROW the chest area is on all of them....I'd say it is about a foot maybe on the biggest one. All who have dressed and skinned a deer know that there is not much tissue covering the vitals. The ribs are puny,no meat to speak of on them, and the hide is about as thick as shoe leather. Is it even remotely logical to believe that a high powered 22 with a controlled expansion bullet can't punch a hole through them? It is little more than shooting a milk jug full of water.

I can see the need for a bigger caliber/cartridge if you intend to shoot them up the butt and if you only see a couple of deer per season I suppose there is a need for that. But point being, on a broadside shot if you look at the animal and how it is constructed it is easy to see how anything from a pointed stick flung by a 45lb recurve bow to an elephant rifle can kill one of these animals.


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My .222

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GP, that .22 HP is really cool and I like that you hunt deer with it. I'd love to have one for deer myself. That 71 grain bullet sure wasn't designed for woodchucks! Great gun, how do you get ammo?

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I reload mostly. Sellier&Bellot sells it new and markets it under the metric designation: 5.6x52R. As far as I know, Hornady is the only outfit making the .228 bullets to reload with. Norma makes empty brass and had started making .303 Savage brass too. You can form it from some other brass too, but I never have.

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Very nice pair of 99's.

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DumbassDon,

Exactly how many deer have you killed in the past decade? Ranges, angles, and details? Exactly how many shots did you pass up on legal deer during that time period?

Methinks, as usual, you are completely full of schit, speaking without experience or knowledge, and basically out of your league when discussing actual hunting.

Prove me wrong (you can't).


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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In the woods I like my Remington 722 in .300 Savage.....

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Originally Posted by 4ager
DumbassDon,

Exactly how many deer have you killed in the past decade? Ranges, angles, and details? Exactly how many shots did you pass up on legal deer during that time period?

Methinks, as usual, you are completely full of schit, speaking without experience or knowledge, and basically out of your league when discussing actual hunting.

Prove me wrong (you can't).
I asked Savage_99 about his experience with the MRC M 1999,still waiting for an answer and that was about a month ago. So,don't hold your breath.


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At least Swarf came back on and tried to defend his opinions. Where's Don?

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Originally Posted by moosemike
At least Swarf came back on and tried to defend his opinions. Where's Don?


He probably has us all on ignore.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Yes Mike. The "Pittsburg Machinegun." If I remember correctly these are at their best with see-through mounts, and any cheap scope.

These are also the people that cannot bring enough alcohol to camp to stay at least partly well plastered for a few days straight, and are what we called "ticket fillers." Their motto is, "we have six licenses, so we should shoot six deer. What's the difference who shoots them?" Hence the machine gun term.

My father started hunting over in PA before WW2. He started taking me over there when I was about 14. As family changes took place we sold our last place in Elk County. When my father started taking me we were lucky we had money for gas, and often slept in the car Friday night to hunt Saturday. I saw my first bear in the woods about then. During deer season. It made my entire hunting season. I never hunted bear over there, but I always enjoyed seeing them, and just getting to observe them in their element.

I am not anthropomorphic. But, when I harvest game it is in a legal season and allotted, and I do think that I owe it a good and unexpected death without suffering, and not the inevitable decline of old age, starvation, and suffering.

This is the last place were I should think that someone who has had the opportunity to knock around Alaska for a year or so should be belittled and remanded for wanting to buy another rifle... It's not necessarily what you are doing, but also what you want to do next.

Do you really need a big excuse to want another rifle? Maybe some of you people should just go out and buy a chicken and choke it to eat.

If my being somewhat educated, well read, and well informed is offensive to you, and having formed opinions. Shame on you. I pride myself on having learned, grown, and changed many of my opinions since I was 14. I still try to do that. Science has changed its opinions on many things since I was 14. It seems a sad state of affairs in the world today that many have only become more simplistically hysterical and only look for evidence to buttress there views - like a bad scientist, or a poor historian.

I have gotten to the age and stage in life where when sometimes, someone says something I often say, "Maybe I'll get hit by the "Big Truck" by then." They often respond, "But you might not die!" My response is always a surprised look and, "Don't you understand the term BIG?"

We should all be happy to be our game.



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Originally Posted by swarf
Yes Mike. The "Pittsburg Machinegun." If I remember correctly these are at their best with see-through mounts, and any cheap scope.

These are also the people that cannot bring enough alcohol to camp to stay at least partly well plastered for a few days straight, and are what we called "ticket fillers." Their motto is, "we have six licenses, so we should shoot six deer. What's the difference who shoots them?" Hence the machine gun term.

My father started hunting over in PA before WW2. He started taking me over there when I was about 14. As family changes took place we sold our last place in Elk County. When my father started taking me we were lucky we had money for gas, and often slept in the car Friday night to hunt Saturday. I saw my first bear in the woods about then. During deer season. It made my entire hunting season. I never hunted bear over there, but I always enjoyed seeing them, and just getting to observe them in their element.

I am not anthropomorphic. But, when I harvest game it is in a legal season and allotted, and I do think that I owe it a good and unexpected death without suffering, and not the inevitable decline of old age, starvation, and suffering.

This is the last place were I should think that someone who has had the opportunity to knock around Alaska for a year or so should be belittled and remanded for wanting to buy another rifle... It's not necessarily what you are doing, but also what you want to do next.

Do you really need a big excuse to want another rifle? Maybe some of you people should just go out and buy a chicken and choke it to eat.

If my being somewhat educated, well read, and well informed is offensive to you, and having formed opinions. Shame on you. I pride myself on having learned, grown, and changed many of my opinions since I was 14. I still try to do that. Science has changed its opinions on many things since I was 14. It seems a sad state of affairs in the world today that many have only become more simplistically hysterical and only look for evidence to buttress there views - like a bad scientist, or a poor historian.

I have gotten to the age and stage in life where when sometimes, someone says something I often say, "Maybe I'll get hit by the "Big Truck" by then." They often respond, "But you might not die!" My response is always a surprised look and, "Don't you understand the term BIG?"

We should all be happy to be our game.




That's an extraordinarily rambling response to no one in particular and without any coherent point at all. Would you care to try again?


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Originally Posted by swarf
Well, let's see. My attack on slob hunters and a lack of judgment has turned into an attack on even God.

Well, more people have been killed in the name of God than any other single thing, and it seems they still are doing just that. I am 67 years old, and have known many professed Christians whose Christianity has only been an asset to them, and they still have been a detriment to society...as long as they followed the pro-forma "they" where alright.

Knowledge does not grow on trees, and many people are incapable of good judgment through a long life.

I never implied that that a 6mm with appropriate bullets was not an adequate deer rifle. There are appropriate bullets, and there are appropriate effective ranges limits for every cartridge combination.

I live in a developed area and state. There is little public land. When I ask a land owner if I may hunt groundhogs on his property with my 221 Fireball, or 22-250 with lightly constructed bullets many now say, "no way!" This is because the last idiot that he permitted on his property had his AR and assaulted a charging, fast firing, 200 yard distant groundhog by bracketing it with a barrage of at least 6-8 rounds. Many times these are the "cheapest" from Walmart, or wherever. The landowner then says, "all of those bullets go somewhere...." Next year up go "No Hunting" signs.

I have done most of my deer hunting in PA. Shots can be close, or over a power line. The record black bear is in excess of 600 pounds. I think that last year three were taken that were over 500 pounds.

I have taken my last few deer in PA with a patched round ball, and a traditional flintlock muzzle loader. The last year I hunted I didn't take a deer. Everything that I could get close to was so small that it wasn't worth getting my hands dirty.

By the way, I do have a niece custom 358 Win, and I do hope to take a deer with it and my own home cast bullet, and I'd call that a 100 yard or less project.

I try to be an ethical person, I try to exercise good judgment, I try not to be a hypocrite. When I hunt I am usually an outsider. I travel a distance, spend money, and attempt to give my self, my game, and all around me, a quality experience with their exposure too me. I want to be welcomed back, able to come back, and at least be a pleasant memory, if I never get back.

I want to appreciate my game, my companions, and my environment. I feel that I'm lucky to have all of them.

If this "my" attitude pees in someone's campfire because my attitude offends you - too bad. It should in some cases.


I advise you to drink more before you post in the future.



Travis


Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Originally Posted by swarf
when I harvest game it is in a legal season and allotted, and I do think that I owe it a good and unexpected death without suffering, and not the inevitable decline of old age, starvation, and suffering.




Says the guy that wishes slow, cancerous deaths on people that use the .223 for deer.

Too [bleep]' funny...



Travis


Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Originally Posted by swarf
Yes Mike. The "Pittsburg Machinegun." If I remember correctly these are at their best with see-through mounts, and any cheap scope.

These are also the people that cannot bring enough alcohol to camp to stay at least partly well plastered for a few days straight, and are what we called "ticket fillers." Their motto is, "we have six licenses, so we should shoot six deer. What's the difference who shoots them?" Hence the machine gun term.

My father started hunting over in PA before WW2. He started taking me over there when I was about 14. As family changes took place we sold our last place in Elk County. When my father started taking me we were lucky we had money for gas, and often slept in the car Friday night to hunt Saturday. I saw my first bear in the woods about then. During deer season. It made my entire hunting season. I never hunted bear over there, but I always enjoyed seeing them, and just getting to observe them in their element.

I am not anthropomorphic. But, when I harvest game it is in a legal season and allotted, and I do think that I owe it a good and unexpected death without suffering, and not the inevitable decline of old age, starvation, and suffering.

This is the last place were I should think that someone who has had the opportunity to knock around Alaska for a year or so should be belittled and remanded for wanting to buy another rifle... It's not necessarily what you are doing, but also what you want to do next.

Do you really need a big excuse to want another rifle? Maybe some of you people should just go out and buy a chicken and choke it to eat.

If my being somewhat educated, well read, and well informed is offensive to you, and having formed opinions. Shame on you. I pride myself on having learned, grown, and changed many of my opinions since I was 14. I still try to do that. Science has changed its opinions on many things since I was 14. It seems a sad state of affairs in the world today that many have only become more simplistically hysterical and only look for evidence to buttress there views - like a bad scientist, or a poor historian.

I have gotten to the age and stage in life where when sometimes, someone says something I often say, "Maybe I'll get hit by the "Big Truck" by then." They often respond, "But you might not die!" My response is always a surprised look and, "Don't you understand the term BIG?"

We should all be happy to be our game.





Well, from the view finder of a born and raised ridge runner from Pa I can say this: you sir have an ego of epic proportions and seem to be the type that would be most unwelcome in my hunting camp, [bleep] you don't even know proper terminology. It ain't a Pittsburgh machine gun, it's an Amish Machine gun and it's [bleep] near the State rifle of Pa Please refrain from soiling our Commonwealth with your presence....


Oh and God Bless


The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude


Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell


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Swarf, on this side of the state we call it the "Amish machinegun".

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Funny how the discussions on minimum cartridges go, guys bashing on them, but forgetting that lots of guys use stick and string. Usually they don't go tracking arrow shot game for 1/2 hour to give them a chance to bleed out. Doesn't sound like drt, which is the argument for using big calibers.

Of course that's much different than using a smaller caliber. (sarcasm intended)

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The first deer I killed with a .22 CF was back in the early 80's. It was a Rem 788 chambered in .222 and the rack from the 172 lb. 8 point is hanging in my living room now. One shot through the lungs from 125 yards and he dropped right there. Since then I've killed a pile with the .222, .223 and .22-250. I never lost a deer with any of them so I'd have to say they're adequate but I was always pretty careful about my shot placement and maybe a little lucky. I would not however, call the .223 or any .22 centerfire "my best woods rifle for big game" or even my best for deer.

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Originally Posted by swarf
Yes Mike. The "Pittsburg Machinegun." If I remember correctly these are at their best with see-through mounts, and any cheap scope.

These are also the people that cannot bring enough alcohol to camp to stay at least partly well plastered for a few days straight, and are what we called "ticket fillers." Their motto is, "we have six licenses, so we should shoot six deer. What's the difference who shoots them?" Hence the machine gun term.

My father started hunting over in PA before WW2. He started taking me over there when I was about 14. As family changes took place we sold our last place in Elk County. When my father started taking me we were lucky we had money for gas, and often slept in the car Friday night to hunt Saturday. I saw my first bear in the woods about then. During deer season. It made my entire hunting season. I never hunted bear over there, but I always enjoyed seeing them, and just getting to observe them in their element.

I am not anthropomorphic. But, when I harvest game it is in a legal season and allotted, and I do think that I owe it a good and unexpected death without suffering, and not the inevitable decline of old age, starvation, and suffering.

This is the last place were I should think that someone who has had the opportunity to knock around Alaska for a year or so should be belittled and remanded for wanting to buy another rifle... It's not necessarily what you are doing, but also what you want to do next.

Do you really need a big excuse to want another rifle? Maybe some of you people should just go out and buy a chicken and choke it to eat.

If my being somewhat educated, well read, and well informed is offensive to you, and having formed opinions. Shame on you. I pride myself on having learned, grown, and changed many of my opinions since I was 14. I still try to do that. Science has changed its opinions on many things since I was 14. It seems a sad state of affairs in the world today that many have only become more simplistically hysterical and only look for evidence to buttress there views - like a bad scientist, or a poor historian.

I have gotten to the age and stage in life where when sometimes, someone says something I often say, "Maybe I'll get hit by the "Big Truck" by then." They often respond, "But you might not die!" My response is always a surprised look and, "Don't you understand the term BIG?"

We should all be happy to be our game.



I honestly don't think you realize it ,but I think you have a superiority complex.I don't think you mean to offend folks,but it's just the way you are.You feel that your being "Somewhat educated",as you put it gives credence to your opinions,and that us commoners are just incapable of knowing something you don't.You do honestly feel all this negative attention you've been getting is because we "Resent your education",as you put it,and you must think that referring to yourself as "Well read",and "Well informed" commands respect of your views.Why don't you show the deer your PHD Degree,and see what they think...P.S. What do you mean by"We should all be happy to our game"?

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Blackheart right on 22 cf kill deer but are not the best deer round in any way or form.I have killed only 3 deer with 223 and all where very dead but the last one I shot ran 60 to 80 yards and there was no blood I found the deer after a 15 min search.The bullet did not exit on the heart shot deer no bones hit just some front leg muscle.The bullet 55gr rem reload I know a premium bullet will make the 22 cf behave bigger but good god man there is so many other better rounds out there.I have found that real serious rifleman use the 22cf not slob hunters so as everybody that knows anything about anything knows its where you put the bullet.

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I may use a 22 centerfire for deer hunting,but then I normally don't ass shoot many either.


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Originally Posted by swarf


If my being somewhat educated, well read, and well informed is offensive to you, and having formed opinions.



Ummm. Errr. ok.


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I like tits.


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They make me a jolly good fellow.

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Yup,especially when they jiggle.


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Well, this thread is a portal into a lot of "thinking" for sure.

Were I hunting New England whitetail I'd use a 257 Roberts or 250 Savage. The whitey is a small beast without much between either side, and there's little use getting beaten up killing one.

Give me a 115 or 120 grainer and I'm happy.

I've killed plenty with the 223 and its ilk, but am happier with a trifle more.

I like stuff in the 2,650 to 2,850 land.

A 358 is fine for those that fancy a whitetail to be the size of a moose... certainly works, but hardly necessary.


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Brad,

Here is a key statement from my first post on this topic:

"I determined that if I had a powerful rifle and practiced with it I would get more.


I should have added that means that I will take any safe shot to get that buck! I will shoot at running deer and I practice it.

If someone uses a tiny cartridge he, in theory, might have to pass up some shot on some buck sometime!

I don't want have to pass up that shot.

PS: It's 3F in our Ct backyard, the wind is North gusting at 10


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Originally Posted by Savage_99

"I determined that if I had a powerful rifle and practiced with it I would get more.


I have no idea what that means...


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I wrote above:

"If someone uses a tiny cartridge he, in theory, might have to pass up some shot on some buck sometime!"

I know I can take tougher shots with a more effective cartridge.


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You know that how?

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Originally Posted by Brad
Originally Posted by Savage_99

"I determined that if I had a powerful rifle and practiced with it I would get more.


I have no idea what that means...



Neither does he


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Damn Savage, the fact that you have those firearms in your possession worries me. You eat a lot of paint chips when you were younger?

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Travis,

I'm fully engaged on the "drink more, then post" ethos. But " Swarf " (which reminds me of the sound that occurred when I plundered a Rubenesque Chi Omega in the Fall of '83) can By Godfrey! Spell Judgment correctly! That has got to be worth something in this age of illiterate Trogs destroying our native tongue.

P.S. All anyone needs to kill deer is a slow twist .22/250 w 55 grain Core-Lokt inside 300 yards, however. Crack-Thump _ grin
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Originally Posted by Savage_99
Since I have been hunting deer and other game for a lifetime here is how and why I chose the rifle I use prefer.

Most of my game hunting has been in Vermont where I have had a cabin for most of my life. We have hunted from there since 1964.

Right now its ready and the heat is on!

The hunting there has required that it be a buck with antlers.

Very few hunters get anything there.

The success rate has been about 10%, ie: one in ten get a buck!

I determined that if I had a powerful rifle and practiced with it I would get more.

I chose my Savage 99 F in .358 Winchester.

We run running deer matches at our rifle club here. I participate in them and in others in the region.

I tested rifles chambered for various cartridges and learned about bush cartridges.

I know a hunter will do better for this hunting shooting the most powerful rifle they can handle!

Those that use tiny cartridges for hunting are passing up shots and hurting our sport of hunting.

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Your comment about helping a chubby sorority sister in need cracked me up! Heck, if you drank more often, you could probably be a professional gun writer with wordsmithing like that!

I, myself, prefer the 22-250 and 60 grain Partition combination, but lots of deer begin the path from woods to table via 55 grain bullets.

I didn't know that Remington made an Core-Lokts in .224" bore, where did you get them?

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Originally Posted by DeereJohn
Originally Posted by swarf
Yes Mike. The "Pittsburg Machinegun." If I remember correctly these are at their best with see-through mounts, and any cheap scope.

These are also the people that cannot bring enough alcohol to camp to stay at least partly well plastered for a few days straight, and are what we called "ticket fillers." Their motto is, "we have six licenses, so we should shoot six deer. What's the difference who shoots them?" Hence the machine gun term.

My father started hunting over in PA before WW2. He started taking me over there when I was about 14. As family changes took place we sold our last place in Elk County. When my father started taking me we were lucky we had money for gas, and often slept in the car Friday night to hunt Saturday. I saw my first bear in the woods about then. During deer season. It made my entire hunting season. I never hunted bear over there, but I always enjoyed seeing them, and just getting to observe them in their element.

I am not anthropomorphic. But, when I harvest game it is in a legal season and allotted, and I do think that I owe it a good and unexpected death without suffering, and not the inevitable decline of old age, starvation, and suffering.

This is the last place were I should think that someone who has had the opportunity to knock around Alaska for a year or so should be belittled and remanded for wanting to buy another rifle... It's not necessarily what you are doing, but also what you want to do next.

Do you really need a big excuse to want another rifle? Maybe some of you people should just go out and buy a chicken and choke it to eat.

If my being somewhat educated, well read, and well informed is offensive to you, and having formed opinions. Shame on you. I pride myself on having learned, grown, and changed many of my opinions since I was 14. I still try to do that. Science has changed its opinions on many things since I was 14. It seems a sad state of affairs in the world today that many have only become more simplistically hysterical and only look for evidence to buttress there views - like a bad scientist, or a poor historian.

I have gotten to the age and stage in life where when sometimes, someone says something I often say, "Maybe I'll get hit by the "Big Truck" by then." They often respond, "But you might not die!" My response is always a surprised look and, "Don't you understand the term BIG?"

We should all be happy to be our game.



I honestly don't think you realize it ,but I think you have a superiority complex.I don't think you mean to offend folks,but it's just the way you are.You feel that your being "Somewhat educated",as you put it gives credence to your opinions,and that us commoners are just incapable of knowing something you don't.You do honestly feel all this negative attention you've been getting is because we "Resent your education",as you put it,and you must think that referring to yourself as "Well read",and "Well informed" commands respect of your views.Why don't you show the deer your PHD Degree,and see what they think...P.S. What do you mean by"We should all be happy to our game"?



Why does everything have to diagnosed anymore? Dumb [bleep] pretty much covers it.

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Originally Posted by Savage_99
I wrote above:

"If someone uses a tiny cartridge he, in theory, might have to pass up some shot on some buck sometime!"

I know I can take tougher shots with a more effective cartridge.


So, you've given up on the "Vermont dictates a heavy caliber" bit. That's good, because the facts don't bear that out - as I stated.

You're left to "well, I can take a marginal shot with a heavier caliber". There are two points on this, though I doubt you'll address either of them.

The first is that such an attitude goes directly against the Hunter Education courses about being an ethical hunter and taking only high percentage shots. Taking marginal shots leads to more wounded and lost game, and is - proven - to be bad for the sporting of hunting. That is exactly counter to your position that people passing up shots are hurting hunting. So, how is it that you advocating taking marginal shots improves hunting with IHEA and evidence state otherwise? How is it that an ethical hunter passing up marginal shots harms hunting when that position is supported by IHEA and evidence?

The second point is a bit more direct. Given your stance that you should never have to pass up a shot because of the choice in cartridge and rifle you've made, how many deer have you killed in the past decade? Please include distances, angles, body size, and other pertinent details. I doubt you'll answer this question either, because frankly I don't believe you've actually killed anything (perhaps ever) in a very long time. Carrying a light caliber or a heavy one is irrelevant if you never or very rarely ever pull the trigger.

I know you're playing the "fake ignore" game, and that's fine. It only makes you look even more foolish.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Originally Posted by swarf
In many ways I agree with Savage 99. Robert Ruark was correct.

Those idiots who think that a 223 is perfect for deer and black bear are repugnant. To brag about how small a cartridge that you can kill something with is disgusting. To take any life and not give it a good death is disgusting. I think that these disgusting dolts should be sentenced to perhaps a miserable, slow, death by cancer. Give them what they deserve.

These thoughts are not provincialism. They are human decency. Our game deserves more than that from us. I always thought that whitetail rounds began with something like a 250 Savage, and went up in power from there.

I have taken but one critter in my life bigger than a whitetail, and that was an Alaskan bull moose. I used a 7mm Rem Mag with a 160 partition. As I looked in awe at it on the ground, my first thought was, "the guys are right... the Alaskan minimum for moose should be 30 caliber and up."

I promised myself, at that time, that if I ever took another Alaskan moose I would have a 338. "I" wasn't in a survival situation. "I" should be a better, more decent, person for having the privilege of taking that large Alaskan moose.

Sitting up in a tree and taking headshots "only" at 25 feet, over a corn pile, at night, is not hunting. There is a difference.


Uh, GFY.

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Don, in VT you aren't hunting 250 lb bucks like you are in Maine. I don't really know what shots you'd have to pass up on a 175 lb. buck with a .243 that you can take with a .358?

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None. To pass up shots one would have to hunt.


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Originally Posted by gitem_12
Originally Posted by Brad
Originally Posted by Savage_99

"I determined that if I had a powerful rifle and practiced with it I would get more.


I have no idea what that means...



Neither does he
Maybe he (savage_99) is talking about nookie?


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Originally Posted by swarf
In many ways I agree with Savage 99. Robert Ruark was correct.

Those idiots who think that a 223 is perfect for deer and black bear are repugnant. To brag about how small a cartridge that you can kill something with is disgusting. To take any life and not give it a good death is disgusting. I think that these disgusting dolts should be sentenced to perhaps a miserable, slow, death by cancer. Give them what they deserve.

These thoughts are not provincialism. They are human decency. Our game deserves more than that from us. I always thought that whitetail rounds began with something like a 250 Savage, and went up in power from there.

I have taken but one critter in my life bigger than a whitetail, and that was an Alaskan bull moose. I used a 7mm Rem Mag with a 160 partition. As I looked in awe at it on the ground, my first thought was, "the guys are right... the Alaskan minimum for moose should be 30 caliber and up."

I promised myself, at that time, that if I ever took another Alaskan moose I would have a 338. "I" wasn't in a survival situation. "I" should be a better, more decent, person for having the privilege of taking that large Alaskan moose.

Sitting up in a tree and taking headshots "only" at 25 feet, over a corn pile, at night, is not hunting. There is a difference.


Ruark formulated his opinions on his first Safari after blowing up chunks of warthogs with a 220 Swift and C&C bullets of the day. He was mostly a bird hunter with virtually no big game experience before that....Thereafter he used a 30/06,375H&H and 470 NE after that first safari IIRC.

Standing over a dead moose is not the time to lament the inadequacies of a 7 Rem Mag and 160 Partitions. I wonder what happens at 30 caliber that doesn't at 7mm if bullets are good in both cases?

If virtue and morality comes at 338, a guy might as well buy his way into Heaven and go 416.

Last edited by BobinNH; 02/20/15.



The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Originally Posted by BobinNH
Originally Posted by swarf
In many ways I agree with Savage 99. Robert Ruark was correct.

Those idiots who think that a 223 is perfect for deer and black bear are repugnant. To brag about how small a cartridge that you can kill something with is disgusting. To take any life and not give it a good death is disgusting. I think that these disgusting dolts should be sentenced to perhaps a miserable, slow, death by cancer. Give them what they deserve.

These thoughts are not provincialism. They are human decency. Our game deserves more than that from us. I always thought that whitetail rounds began with something like a 250 Savage, and went up in power from there.

I have taken but one critter in my life bigger than a whitetail, and that was an Alaskan bull moose. I used a 7mm Rem Mag with a 160 partition. As I looked in awe at it on the ground, my first thought was, "the guys are right... the Alaskan minimum for moose should be 30 caliber and up."

I promised myself, at that time, that if I ever took another Alaskan moose I would have a 338. "I" wasn't in a survival situation. "I" should be a better, more decent, person for having the privilege of taking that large Alaskan moose.

Sitting up in a tree and taking headshots "only" at 25 feet, over a corn pile, at night, is not hunting. There is a difference.


Ruark formulated his opinions on his first Safari after blowing up chunks of warthogs with a 220 Swift and C&C bullets of the day. He was mostly a bird hunter with virtually no big game experience before that....Thereafter he used a 30/06,375H&H and 470 NE after that first safari IIRC.

Standing over a dead moose is not the time to lament the inadequacies of a 7 Rem Mag and 160 Partitions. I wonder what happens at 30 caliber that doesn't at 7mm if bullets are good in both cases?

If virtue and morality comes at 338, a guy might as well buy his way into Heaven and go 416.


Bob,

Please don't bring common sense and actual facts into this. Savage_99 and swarf can't deal with such things.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Originally Posted by DigitalDan
Originally Posted by swarf
In many ways I agree with Savage 99. Robert Ruark was correct.

Those idiots who think that a 223 is perfect for deer and black bear are repugnant. To brag about how small a cartridge that you can kill something with is disgusting. To take any life and not give it a good death is disgusting. I think that these disgusting dolts should be sentenced to perhaps a miserable, slow, death by cancer. Give them what they deserve.

These thoughts are not provincialism. They are human decency. Our game deserves more than that from us. I always thought that whitetail rounds began with something like a 250 Savage, and went up in power from there.

I have taken but one critter in my life bigger than a whitetail, and that was an Alaskan bull moose. I used a 7mm Rem Mag with a 160 partition. As I looked in awe at it on the ground, my first thought was, "the guys are right... the Alaskan minimum for moose should be 30 caliber and up."

I promised myself, at that time, that if I ever took another Alaskan moose I would have a 338. "I" wasn't in a survival situation. "I" should be a better, more decent, person for having the privilege of taking that large Alaskan moose.

Sitting up in a tree and taking headshots "only" at 25 feet, over a corn pile, at night, is not hunting. There is a difference.


Uh, GFY.

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Bob. has it right about Ruark, a mediocre writer of sensational "novels" largely based in Africa and the US South. He copied Ernest Hemingway's style and tried to pose as his equal in the literary sense and as a "big game" hunter of world renown and expertise.

Ruark, to anyone who actually HAS serious wilderness experience, was a rather pathetic person and lacked any real substance as anything other than a "potboiler" scribe.

I will say, tho', that 47 years of use of the fabulous .338WM in BC and siding me for 5.5 month stints in the Albertan Rockies, living alone in Grizzly country working in forest protection, has demonstrated to me that such a cartridge HAS many benefits if one can shoot it well.

I have used a Kimber of Oregon .223, a P-64 .375, a Browning Safari .30-06, a P-64 Std. .30-06 a Marlin .336-44Mag. and my treasured original P-64-.338 during several stints at this work.

The .338 is BEST and many BC guides and serious, working bush/mountain men here would agree....we all have stood over various large quadrupeds and at 68, I am not finished yet, by God.

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Damn straight SNAP!

Except you can't go bragging up a rifle without posting a pic of it!

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Dan,

Y'all still have the rimfire garbage on wma's for hogs in Fla?

Georgia finally separated head from rear and replaced rimfires with centerfires for hunting furbearers and varmints on wma's which means hogs as well. Thinking on tripping my 22 mag and replacing it with a center fire for those critters.

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I'm doing hog eradication volunteer work for the state on preserve lands and am restricted to RF arms. Dunno about the rest of the state and regs, no big need to follow that at present.

Pork chops are the best form of a hog I've found.


I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


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They are tasty!

Can't tell from the pics are you using 22 mag?

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Originally Posted by 4winds
They are tasty!

Can't tell from the pics are you using 22 mag?


CB Shorts.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!

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I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


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You are doing volunteer work and yet they restrict you to RF?

Kinda like kissing your sister ain't it? Just don't seem right.


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There are some big 250lb+ whitetail deer in PA in the thick woods. Lots of guys use a 30-06 or heavier in the belief that they need to need to put them down fast. In Potter County for example, on opening day, if a hit deer runs 40 or 50 yards, someone else is going to put lead in it, then try to claim it. JD Jones wrote an interesting article that he sold a lot of 45-70 Contender (pistol) barrels to PA hunters who wanted to put down deer fast, with out them running far. Whether you think bigger calibers put down big whitetail deer faster, is a matter of opinion. Plenty of people do believe it though, and they surely practice it--right or wrong.

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That's special.


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Isn't it though Scott. Really, really special, just like you.

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If I had to worry about a couple of Fudds tagging a deer I shot because it ran 30 yards I'd take up golf. Yankees are truly wonderful people.


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I would personally much rather hunt deer with a 300 WSM than a 223. The 300 will be 'too much gun' for most shots but I honestly don't give a [bleep].

Unless I was just gonna go out and shoot a doe or a dink and be picky about what shot I was gonna take. Then I'd take a 'stunt' shot with a 223.

Large buck running off +200 yards away and I'd pass on shooting a 223 but that's just me.


Dropped a 1000lb critter a couple weeks ago with one shot from a 243. DRT.....10 yard shot.

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Yup,I would prefer something larger than a .223. For me at least a .243 or larger loaded with Nosler Partitions.


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Originally Posted by ULA24
There are some big 250lb+ whitetail deer in PA in the thick woods. Lots of guys use a 30-06 or heavier in the belief that they need to need to put them down fast. In Potter County for example, on opening day, if a hit deer runs 40 or 50 yards, someone else is going to put lead in it, then try to claim it. JD Jones wrote an interesting article that he sold a lot of 45-70 Contender (pistol) barrels to PA hunters who wanted to put down deer fast, with out them running far. Whether you think bigger calibers put down big whitetail deer faster, is a matter of opinion. Plenty of people do believe it though, and they surely practice it--right or wrong.


Funny, my kin has been killing PA deer for decades with 222 Rem's, 243's and a 22-250 in there.

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Originally Posted by Pahntr760
Originally Posted by ULA24
There are some big 250lb+ whitetail deer in PA in the thick woods. Lots of guys use a 30-06 or heavier in the belief that they need to need to put them down fast. In Potter County for example, on opening day, if a hit deer runs 40 or 50 yards, someone else is going to put lead in it, then try to claim it. JD Jones wrote an interesting article that he sold a lot of 45-70 Contender (pistol) barrels to PA hunters who wanted to put down deer fast, with out them running far. Whether you think bigger calibers put down big whitetail deer faster, is a matter of opinion. Plenty of people do believe it though, and they surely practice it--right or wrong.


Funny, my kin has been killing PA deer for decades with 222 Rem's, 243's and a 22-250 in there.

I grew up in Potter County and have hunted deer in Pa. for over 50 years...all with a .243 or .260 Remington when I was rifle hunting. I've never had either caliber fail me on dozens of deer harvested including some very large ones. I am very careful about shot selection and shot placement though.

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for me a Remmy 7600 in 35 Whelen 22 inch barrel quick handling If I am sitting in a stand than a scoped Savage 99 EG in 300 Savage

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Originally Posted by Savage_99
...

The success rate has been about 10%, ie: one in ten get a buck!

I determined that if I had a powerful rifle and practiced with it I would get more.

I chose my Savage 99 F in .358 Winchester.


A more "powerful rifle" in itself guarantees nothing. Nor does practice it you never learn to hit the target. What does matter is bullet construction, impact velocity and placement. While there is nothing wrong with a .358 Win, smaller cartridges can and do perform admirably in the hands of shooters who know how to use them. For fast follow-up shots I would prefer a smaller cartridge in a semi-auto platform.

Quote

...
I know a hunter will do better for this hunting shooting the most powerful rifle they can handle!

Hunters will do better shooting a rifle/cartridge combination they can shoot well. Often that means a low-recoil cartridge. My favorite and that of Daughter #1 is a .257 Roberts. If a hunter can't do it with a 120g A-Frame launched at 2947fps, chances are a .358 isn't going to help much.

[/quote]
Those that use tiny cartridges for hunting are passing up shots and hurting our sport of hunting.
...
[/quote]

Passing up shots hurts the sport? Damn, guess I'm going to have to get a new rifle because I've passed up shots with every rifle I've taken into the field - including .257 Roberts, 6.5-06AI, .280 Rem, 7mm RM, .30-30, .308W, .30-06, .300WM, .338WM, .44 Mag and .45-70.

Oh, wait, never mind. The reason for passing was because of angle, range, animal movement or other factors, not because of a problem with the cartridge being used.

I've seen lots of game put on the ground quickly with "tiny" cartridges and failures have been due to bullet construction and/or placement, not the cartridge itself. Of course, bullet construction and placement is never an issue with a cartridges starting at .358" ...


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Originally Posted by ULA24
There are some big 250lb+ whitetail deer in PA in the thick woods. Lots of guys use a 30-06 or heavier in the belief that they need to need to put them down fast. In Potter County for example, on opening day, if a hit deer runs 40 or 50 yards, someone else is going to put lead in it, then try to claim it. JD Jones wrote an interesting article that he sold a lot of 45-70 Contender (pistol) barrels to PA hunters who wanted to put down deer fast, with out them running far. Whether you think bigger calibers put down big whitetail deer faster, is a matter of opinion. Plenty of people do believe it though, and they surely practice it--right or wrong.




I've been hearing tales of 250 lb PA deer all my life. Next one I see will be my first.

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Originally Posted by ULA24
There are some big 250lb+ whitetail deer in PA in the thick woods. Lots of guys use a 30-06 or heavier in the belief that they need to need to put them down fast. In Potter County for example, on opening day, if a hit deer runs 40 or 50 yards, someone else is going to put lead in it, then try to claim it. JD Jones wrote an interesting article that he sold a lot of 45-70 Contender (pistol) barrels to PA hunters who wanted to put down deer fast, with out them running far. Whether you think bigger calibers put down big whitetail deer faster, is a matter of opinion. Plenty of people do believe it though, and they surely practice it--right or wrong.


The trick is to use a fast, explosive bullet that provide instant "lights out" performance regardless of angle or placement. Like the Berger VLDs.






(Just had to say that for all the hamBerger lovers...) laugh


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Plenty of lost deer here in NY shot with a 12 ga. so Im not buying what's being sold here
Shot placement is king and trumps all else


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Originally Posted by moosemike
Originally Posted by ULA24
There are some big 250lb+ whitetail deer in PA in the thick woods. Lots of guys use a 30-06 or heavier in the belief that they need to need to put them down fast. In Potter County for example, on opening day, if a hit deer runs 40 or 50 yards, someone else is going to put lead in it, then try to claim it. JD Jones wrote an interesting article that he sold a lot of 45-70 Contender (pistol) barrels to PA hunters who wanted to put down deer fast, with out them running far. Whether you think bigger calibers put down big whitetail deer faster, is a matter of opinion. Plenty of people do believe it though, and they surely practice it--right or wrong.




I've been hearing tales of 250 lb PA deer all my life. Next one I see will be my first.


I have seen one that went 190# dressed. It was a good 4.5 year old, 150" typical. Won Crawford County that year...big ole boy...

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Originally Posted by moosemike
Originally Posted by ULA24
There are some big 250lb+ whitetail deer in PA in the thick woods. Lots of guys use a 30-06 or heavier in the belief that they need to need to put them down fast. In Potter County for example, on opening day, if a hit deer runs 40 or 50 yards, someone else is going to put lead in it, then try to claim it. JD Jones wrote an interesting article that he sold a lot of 45-70 Contender (pistol) barrels to PA hunters who wanted to put down deer fast, with out them running far. Whether you think bigger calibers put down big whitetail deer faster, is a matter of opinion. Plenty of people do believe it though, and they surely practice it--right or wrong.




I've been hearing tales of 250 lb PA deer all my life. Next one I see will be my first.
I would think there must be 250 lb. deer {on the hoof} in Pa.. They are here in NY just across the Pa. border. I saw two taken here in Delaware county last season that dressed 205 and 215 respectively. I took one myself years ago that dressed 195. Any of those would have been at or near 250 on the hoof. They aren't common but they are around.

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I've killed deer here over 230lbs dressed... And with a bow go figure


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I was in high school nd remember a 300 pound buck killed locally in Pa. Big story in the news paper and on local news progrms


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Originally Posted by dvdegeorge
Plenty of lost deer here in NY shot with a 12 ga. so Im not buying what's being sold here
Shot placement is king and trumps all else


Great truth here.

Up in eastern Saskatchewan I listened eagerly to a guy sitting on a big buck rub line.Telephone pole sized trees torn to shreds.

To "up his odds" on monsters,he had lugged along a Rem 660(600?) in 350 Rem Mag....the ultimate brush whitetail rifle for those marginal opportunities to rake them and dump them where they stand.....he said.

He came in next to last day with a raggedy immature 6 point(biggest he had ever killed), that was shot to pieces...hit 5 or 6 times between nostrils and butt hole.

At that, it had to be tracked.

Saskatchewan causes that kind of enthusiasm.




The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Originally Posted by dvdegeorge
I've killed deer here over 230lbs dressed... And with a bow go figure
Early in the season they are heavier. I killed one Dec. 6, 2010 that dressed 177. He would likely have been 200 or over in Oct.. 230 is a Hoss regardless.

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Bucks are considerably heavier pre rut than post rut. So if 250 lb. bucks are being killed in PA I'd expect it to be in archery.

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Originally Posted by moosemike
Bucks are considerably heavier pre rut than post rut. So if 250 lb. bucks are being killed in PA I'd expect it to be in archery.


Depends on whether you estimate the weight where you shoot it or after you've dragged it a mile back to the truck! crazy

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Originally Posted by basdjs
Originally Posted by moosemike
Bucks are considerably heavier pre rut than post rut. So if 250 lb. bucks are being killed in PA I'd expect it to be in archery.


Depends on whether you estimate the weight where you shoot it or after you've dragged it a mile back to the truck! crazy


I don't estimate I put them on a scale

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I find it hard to believe that a cartridge capable of killing a 250lb man in full battle rattle is somehow incapable of killing a 250lb deer.

As someone used to say - critters can't read headstamps. Bullets matter followed by shot placement.


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at warp speed is a deer smasher for sure

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Originally Posted by moosemike
Originally Posted by ULA24
There are some big 250lb+ whitetail deer in PA in the thick woods. Lots of guys use a 30-06 or heavier in the belief that they need to need to put them down fast. In Potter County for example, on opening day, if a hit deer runs 40 or 50 yards, someone else is going to put lead in it, then try to claim it. JD Jones wrote an interesting article that he sold a lot of 45-70 Contender (pistol) barrels to PA hunters who wanted to put down deer fast, with out them running far. Whether you think bigger calibers put down big whitetail deer faster, is a matter of opinion. Plenty of people do believe it though, and they surely practice it--right or wrong.




I've been hearing tales of 250 lb PA deer all my life. Next one I see will be my first.



We ain't talking Sasquatch here gentleman, big deer do exist in PA. I saw a 223 pound dressed whitetail get weighed in this year, and a 217 pounder last year. Game Warden says he sees lots of big deer each year. Mind you, these were Chester County farm fed fatties in my area.

I still try to hunt Potter County each year, as often as I can. I can clearly see other hunters from my stand on opening day. No doubt that if your deer runs 50 yards, it might likely get shot by someone else.

I am not subscribing to the big caliber dropping deer fast theory; I often use a 257 Ackley and a 260 myself. I am just saying lots of guys really do believe it 100% percent, like it or not. I still see plenty of old Remington 760 30-06's loaded with 180 grainer round nose. These guys will flat out machine gun these deer until they drop. I have literally seen it happen a bunch of times. Guess what, it does work. There might be better ways to kill deer fast, but that method does in fact work--lol.


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I shot my first buck with a Remington 760 in 1990. I placed a 180 grain Core -Lokt right behind the shoulder (standard PA load) and it ran 150 yards and I still had to put a finisher in it. I tend to learn quick so I switched to 150 Core Lokts after that and started watching deer drop at the shot. PA guys had it all wrong when it comes to deer bullets for the .30-06.

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Shot my third buck with the Enfield P-17 sporter in 1954.

My handloaded 180 gr Sierra BT hit the buck in the chest and it fell but got up and ran all over the field. I got it.

My current favorite 06 bullet for game that size is the 155 gr Berger VLD.



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Originally Posted by moosemike
I shot my first buck with a Remington 760 in 1990. I placed a 180 grain Core -Lokt right behind the shoulder (standard PA load) and it ran 150 yards and I still had to put a finisher in it. I tend to learn quick so I switched to 150 Core Lokts after that and started watching deer drop at the shot. PA guys had it all wrong when it comes to deer bullets for the .30-06.
Funny, back when I hunted with a .30-06 those 180 gr. RN core-lokts smacked hell out of deer for me. The infamous Benoit clan apparently thought they worked fine too, as that's all they used in their '06's for many years. Guess they musta had it all wrong just like all those Pa. guys.

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22cf at warp speed good meat wrecker

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Originally Posted by Savage_99
Shot my third buck with the Enfield P-17 sporter in 1954.

My handloaded 180 gr Sierra BT hit the buck in the chest and it fell but got up and ran all over the field. I got it.

My current favorite 06 bullet for game that size is the 155 gr Berger VLD.



How many in the last decade? Details?


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Originally Posted by driftless
22cf at warp speed good meat wrecker



The 22 Savage High Power had quite a reputation as a killer in its day. This is an interesting piece:


"Long before Roy Weatherby developed his high velocity ethos, the Savage Company released their .22 Savage Hi Power. The Hi Power was not only designed for use on varmints but also, Savage hoped the cartridge would be ideal for larger medium game. Designed by Charles Newton and released in 1912 for the Model 99 rifle, the .22 Hi power fired a 70 grain .228 caliber bullet at a then fast, 2790fps. The .22 Hi Power was given the same mystical kudos as Remington's .222 that came 38 years later. Not only was it used on North American game but also Asiatic and African game. In fact, Karamojo Bell wrote of using it for shooting Buffalo, his point of aim being just behind the ear.

Eventually, evidence built up pointing to the fact that the .22 Hi Power was wounding far more game than it was killing. In the USA and UK, the Hi Power remained popular for some time for use on varmints and occasionally smaller medium game species but was finally surpassed and made semi obsolete by the .222 Remington. The Hi Power has however retained limited popularity in Europe for use in combination, break open rifles where it is considered adequate for hunting Roe Deer over farmland."

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Originally Posted by driftless
22cf at warp speed good meat wrecker


"warp speed" is a good meat wrecker, and that increases with bore size.

Hit a deer at close range with a .300WM and a 165 spitzer boattail. Nasty. Same deer, same bullet at 400 yards and the damage is much, much less. The same goes for using a .220 Swift and a 55 grain SP; up close the damage is nasty, as range increases the damage decreases.



Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Originally Posted by Blackheart
Originally Posted by moosemike
I shot my first buck with a Remington 760 in 1990. I placed a 180 grain Core -Lokt right behind the shoulder (standard PA load) and it ran 150 yards and I still had to put a finisher in it. I tend to learn quick so I switched to 150 Core Lokts after that and started watching deer drop at the shot. PA guys had it all wrong when it comes to deer bullets for the .30-06.
Funny, back when I hunted with a .30-06 those 180 gr. RN core-lokts smacked hell out of deer for me. The infamous Benoit clan apparently thought they worked fine too, as that's all they used in their '06's for many years. Guess they musta had it all wrong just like all those Pa. guys.




My dad was a Benoit acolyte and a 180 grain Core -Lokt "lifer" because they were needed for "bucking brush". Once my dad saw the lightning quick kills I was getting with 150 Core Lokts he switched too.

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I won't get into the argument, but I did see one thing....How many here have quoted anything about one of the long-time, standard "woods" rifles.....the venerable .30-30 Win, which one
hell of a lot of deer have fallen to over many years? Just sayin...and I also know a lot of people here have used the great .270 for many years for everything in the lower 48...woods gun or not.

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Originally Posted by moosemike
Originally Posted by Blackheart
Originally Posted by moosemike
I shot my first buck with a Remington 760 in 1990. I placed a 180 grain Core -Lokt right behind the shoulder (standard PA load) and it ran 150 yards and I still had to put a finisher in it. I tend to learn quick so I switched to 150 Core Lokts after that and started watching deer drop at the shot. PA guys had it all wrong when it comes to deer bullets for the .30-06.
Funny, back when I hunted with a .30-06 those 180 gr. RN core-lokts smacked hell out of deer for me. The infamous Benoit clan apparently thought they worked fine too, as that's all they used in their '06's for many years. Guess they musta had it all wrong just like all those Pa. guys.




My dad was a Benoit acolyte and a 180 grain Core -Lokt "lifer" because they were needed for "bucking brush". Once my dad saw the lightning quick kills I was getting with 150 Core Lokts he switched too.
I tried 150 core-lokts and power points too. Quit using the '06 after a few seasons cuz I just couldn't see that it was killing them any quicker or deader than my .243 or .30-30 and they were cheaper and more pleasant to shoot.

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Agreed. My sons .243 drops deer just as quick as my .30-06.

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