Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Lightweight stalking woods rifle optimal caliber help

Zactly

PS, When i was a kid we killed tons of huge hogs with a 22 short,




In a hog pen.

OPs title begins 'Lightweight STALKING woods rifle'. That key word 'stalking', to me anyways, doesn't mean sitting in a stand, or over a baitpile or field, or shooting at unalarmed deer.

They didn't grow a big set of antlers being dumb, and if stalking them, most of the time they don't give you much of a shot when they depart, kind of like a ruffed grouse, now you see um, now you don't. They are also nicknamed 'cottontail deer' for a reason. So most of the time, 'first shot discipline' is non existent, you have a split second to get a shot off, and if you're lucky, and very fast, maybe 2. Hence my choice for a larger caliber in the style gun I mentioned earlier.

While I like the smaller caliber arms and know they can take deer effectively and humanely under certain conditions, just not my choice for these type of conditions.

Terrain/understory cover is probably the key to what one should choose/pick more than anything, and there's really no right or wrong answer, depends on conditions/terrain.

It sounds to me as if you want to take the shots I would call "difficult." There is absolutely no judgment in that statement. It also seems you have chosen carefully and wisely what you carry.

But I contend you can "stalk" or "still hunt" (meaning walk slowly a ways, sit a bit, repeat) and still decide to have first shot discipline. It is a choice.

If my friend and still hunt separately, when we meet up, we tell each other how many deer we saw, and how many deer butts we saw. I suppose the meaning is obvious, but for clarity, it is how many deer we saw before they saw us, and vice-versa. And that last one is assuming we saw them at all! We see plenty of deer butts, but we see our share of deer as well.

If I were back East still-hunting whitetails (or sitting in a stand), I'd have a nice 257 Roberts stoked with 120's.

There just isn't that much to the biggest whitetail and there's no point getting beat-up with recoil shooting them.

It's not so much that I want to take the shots that you define as difficult, I'm just saying in high pressure areas, the majority of time, thats the only type of shot offered. Those deer in high pressure areas are ALWAYS on edge, even bedded. And you literally have a split second to decide if you can make the shot or not, and take it, or pass, it's ALWAYS a hard judgement call.

I hunt the Catskills, some of the same area Larry Koeller hunted, Sullivan/Ulster counties. Not a whole lot of deer, thick cover, mountain laurel/balsam swamps and plenty of pressure, but some really good bucks who are always on edge, and hide in the thickest, nastiest cover they can find. Hard to walk up on them unnoticed, but could be I'm a lousy stalker too, LOL.

How about a used Remington Model 7 Stainless in 260 Rem, 7-08 Rem or 308 Rem.? With a lightweight, low-power scope it'll weigh about 6.5 pounds and still be in the $700 range.

I have shot large whitetail @ over 200y that were looking into a field from the woods. Sometimes these were frontal, quartering shots through the chest/shoulder. Personally I would not feel comfortable with a 223 in such a situation. I am sure a 100y+ broadside heart/lung shot would be no problem for a 223 with the right bullet.

My stalking successes in the past have been with a bow, moving so slowly you'd think your boots would grow moss on them and the concentration and careful choices to go along with such an endeavor. I have been successful very seldom but I have been successful on multiple occasions. That is my most boastful response and I think if any of you have been in my situation particularly in the areas I've hunted (Southeast and Midwest) you would agree that a small margin of success is pretty damned good especially chasing skittish deer on public hunting ground. I admit I enjoy all of it, and remember my mistakes and white flags like they were yesterday only for the lessons taught to me and the hopes that I remain a student of the chase and never an expert!

I think the majority of us rightfully refuse to let go of the boyhood outdoor fantasies that we can never fully satisfy nor want to and most of this is merely conjecture supporting that notion. My original statement was typed out of frustration after researching a thought in my head for the perfect stalking rifle of the perfect weight, balance, size and effectiveness of the cartridge to go with it. I think many of you have suffered this 'sought out perfect rifle scenario' one way or another and wound up in the same situation I have...you can only get so close before you realize you cannot discount the compromises and therein lies the conundrum and my first post. If I could define this for you, it wouldn't be posed as a question for your input.

Anyway, I know the advantages of a lever gun and all of you suggesting it would be correct in your beliefs as it pertains to you. Same goes for a semiauto of some sort. But my gun hunting heart lies with bolt actions and their limitations and conveniences that led me to my original post. I have come to believe that of the choices I've presented to you, the rifle loony side of me wanted to make the 6.5 Grendel in the little CZ 527 to be the solution to my 'stalking fantasy rifle.' The realistic side of me, after much contemplation while paying attention to your concerns and suggestions, has brought me back to the real world that the easiest solution would be to stop trying to make that CZ into the closest thing to a Kimber 84 Montana and just buy the Kimber to forgo the hassles of the CZ 527 build. The caliber choice will prove to be more difficult and a personal choice on my behalf.

For those of you that were hoping that I would find an answer so that you wouldn't have to deliberate over a similar interest on your own behalf, I did not aim to disappoint you. I do, however, appreciate all of your feedback even though my conclusions have not and may never fully come to disclosure.

That made me thirsty, think I may grab a cold one!

And when a buck sees you first and starts to run will you choose 120's from a .257R to make a going away shot on a running buck?

In regards to the choice of caliber I think that decision would have been made before even stepping into the woods. If you're thinking about the head stamp in your chamber with the scenario you mentioned, you won't have to worry about the outcome because that buck would be crossing into the next zip code, leaving you to head home looking forward to some tag soup!

I don't know you from Adam, but you don't sound like a lousy stalker. And I repeat, there is no judgment in my statement that you choose to take the "difficult" shots. They may be the only shots you get. I live in Central Texas. We are up to our butts in deer. When I go hunting, I usually get busted a couple times until I get back in the mindset that the wild deer are not my "yard deer." The yard deer don't exactly ignore me, but darn close!

As for the OP liking bolt guns, me too. And the people who can truly run a bolt gun are pretty damn fast. I'd grab my Fwt. .270. Probably not perfect, but not a bad choice.

So, you've given up on the "Vermont dictates a heavy caliber" bit. That's good, because the facts don't bear that out - as I stated.

You're left to "well, I can take a marginal shot with a heavier caliber". There are two points on this, though I doubt you'll address either of them.

The first is that such an attitude goes directly against the Hunter Education courses about being an ethical hunter and taking only high percentage shots. Taking marginal shots leads to more wounded and lost game, and is - proven - to be bad for the sporting of hunting. That is exactly counter to your position that people passing up shots are hurting hunting. So, how is it that you advocating taking marginal shots improves hunting with IHEA and evidence state otherwise? How is it that an ethical hunter passing up marginal shots harms hunting when that position is supported by IHEA and evidence?

The second point is a bit more direct. Given your stance that you should never have to pass up a shot because of the choice in cartridge and rifle you've made, how many deer have you killed in the past decade? Please include distances, angles, body size, and other pertinent details. I doubt you'll answer this question either, because frankly I don't believe you've actually killed anything (perhaps ever) in a very long time. Carrying a light caliber or a heavy one is irrelevant if you never or very rarely ever pull the trigger.

I know you're playing the "fake ignore" game, and that's fine. It only makes you look even more foolish.

How about a Tikka SuperLight in 308 or a Weatherby Ultralight in 30-06, both under 6 lbs. naked. I have both and they shoot great, handle well.

The other barrel of my T/C Contender Carbine is chambered in .30-30 Win.

-Hint-

For that little guy in the pic, I'd drop down to 100g...:)

faster deer...faster bullets

I've been doing just this kind of hunting since I was in my teens,which now is awhile. For cartridges I've used the 257 Roberts, 7/08,7x57,270,280,30/06,and even....now and then, a 24" 7 Rem Mag which was sort of out of place.I've never owned a standard case 6.5 and frankly don't care if I ever do.

The rifles have ranged from little Remington M7's and 700's one M70 Compact 7/08,but the rest of them have been M70 FW's and Remington Mountain rifles with low fixed powers and low to mid range variables.The over whelming majority have been M70 Fw's in wood and synthetic stocks.The rifles weighed 6.5-7.5pounds.

Most of these rifles had been out west for annual hunts before I got to use them locally. Nothing changed since I don't really believe in squeezing rifles/scopes,cartridges/bullets into little environmental niches. I'm there to kill something and am not interested in how far down the caliber list I can go and still kill animals.So, that my rifle/load is "elk capable" doesn't bother me.

Distances have varied from 20-30 feet (deer and black bear in close cover) to 300-330 yards or so...actually not much different from "out west".I have shot the odd coyote and black bear.I try not to shoot small deer but do sometimes; my bigger one's have dressed from 180 to 235 pounds.The same cartridges kill them both.

You poke around heavy cover most of the day,maybe track.Distances are short and chances fleeting...around 3PM (it's dark by 4:30 or so) you might gravitate to a power line ,clearcut or field for the evening stand where you might have to reach 200-400 yards.So the rifle has to be capable of handling that,too. I like stouter bullets that expand and penetrate,and don't like thin jacketed bombs that disintegrate.

I guess if I had to pick something "perfect" today a Kimber Montana in 7/08 would be close to the top of the list....but really not any more ideal than a FW 270/280/7x57/30/06 for most of what I do.(I tend to lump cartridges together).

My half-assed view FWIW.

It did me as well Brad I love hunting whitetails (and squirrels in these woods!)

PennDog

No. 1 I have a 6.5 Swede and You haven't missed anything. I've had 6mm Rems (same case) and prefer the vel (speed) and B C of the 100 gr 6mm bullets. I'm currently 'waiting' on some 120 gr 6.5 bullets to see what can be done SAFELY with them.

No. 2 Yep, indeed.

No. 3 You got a A'men here!!

I would not hesitate to shoot that deer at that range at that angle with a 223 using stout bullets (Nosler 64BSB or 60Partition, Federal 62Fusion, Hornady 60SP, Trophy Bonded 62Bear Claw). Sometimes knowing is just so much better than guessing.