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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,817
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,817 |
I think I have got the link fixed.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,817
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,817 |
You should get the concentricity checker to know what you're producing.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,077
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,077 |
You need the concentricity gauge because you never know what the actual results are from certain dies without checking.
Plus, it will save you money in the long run, because some cheap dies can be easily adjusted and modified to make really straight ammo--but you need the gauge to find out what works.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,914
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,914 |
I ordered my gauge today. I'm sure I'll be amazed at how crooked my stuff is.
When I die I hope I don't start voting democrat.
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,830
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,830 |
What brand of concetricity gauge you consider good quality?
Bearcat74...what brand did you order?
I have always told myself that I need to get one of these to check my rounds and since I am going to place an order I might as well throw this in my order.
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927 |
I wish I'd gotten mine sooner.
Wouldn't mind hearing others tricks on getting basic die sets square. My only two are a piece of flat stock on the ram against the seater die before snugging the lock ring and the 7/8" O-ring on the sizer to make setting headspace easier.
Been trying to see if thread tape on the die bodies helps to keep things straight, but second attempt wasnt as fruitful as my first.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,914
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,914 |
For the guys that have the concentricity gauges how much difference have you seen pre-gauge vs post gauge?
Also, were you making mostly straight ammo to begin with?
When I die I hope I don't start voting democrat.
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,257
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,257 |
I'll order the gauge Monday. (The same one Bearcat74 ordered.)
I'll post what I find when it shows up.
The never-ending flight
Of future days.
Paradise Lost. Book ii. Line 221
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,830
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,830 |
I have the RCBS Case Master and honestly I think this stuff is hard to get repeatable data. For example I went down and measured runout on new 223Rem brass. Three of the brass had like .005ish run out and one had .004. Is this typical of new brass? Instructions say to resize and see if this helps. But when you shoot the ammunition and resize it seems possible to introduce all kinds of runout. I am not a benchrest shooter but like my ammo to be less than 1" for BG hunting rifles but for varmint rifles I like a bit less. I think you can obtain these accuracy by the components used. So should I try resizing one of my brass and see if this lessen the run out?
I think someone a while ago mention that RCBS Case Master is the worse of all concentriity gauge. Is this the general consensus?
I have a loaded round and I will try to measure bullet run out but I think the first thing is to probably get the smallest run out on a new brass and then load and see what bullet run out I get.
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,830
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,830 |
Bearcat,
How can you tell pre-gauge and post gauge? IMO if you are shooting acceptable groups to you, then how much of this gauge-testing comes into the picture. I mean I like to load and shoot and shooting with known good ammo with a particular rifle "tends" to product good groups with the same components. Its when nothing is working that maybe this gauge you get may tell you where to look into a problem. This is my way of thinking but I am not the know all in reloading.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,914
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,914 |
Well, I really don't know. I'm still reading up/into concentricity honestly. I see the tips in die straightening and I was curious if anyone had measured their stuff, used the tips to straighten things out, remeasured and shot groups with each. One reason I wanted to try one is for consistency. I know everyone has their off days but how a load can go under 1/2" and then in the same brass on a day that I am shooting good be over 1" is beyond me. Maybe it's just gremlins in the barrel?
When I die I hope I don't start voting democrat.
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927 |
I have the RCBS Case Master and honestly I think this stuff is hard to get repeatable data. For example I went down and measured runout on new 223Rem brass. Three of the brass had like .005ish run out and one had .004. Is this typical of new brass? Instructions say to resize and see if this helps. But when you shoot the ammunition and resize it seems possible to introduce all kinds of runout. I am not a benchrest shooter but like my ammo to be less than 1" for BG hunting rifles but for varmint rifles I like a bit less. I think you can obtain these accuracy by the components used. So should I try resizing one of my brass and see if this lessen the run out?
I think someone a while ago mention that RCBS Case Master is the worse of all concentriity gauge. Is this the general consensus?
I have a loaded round and I will try to measure bullet run out but I think the first thing is to probably get the smallest run out on a new brass and then load and see what bullet run out I get. Measure once fired cases, then sized cases, then bullets on loaded rounds. You'll see.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,219
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,219 |
I have the RCBS Case Master and honestly I think this stuff is hard to get repeatable data. For example I went down and measured runout on new 223Rem brass. Three of the brass had like .005ish run out and one had .004. Is this typical of new brass? Yes, it is. You're going to shoot for .003 or less with 223 brass I think someone a while ago mention that RCBS Case Master is the worse of all concentriity gauge. Is this the general consensus?
I have the "old style" v-block Sinclair concentricity gauge, the current Sinclair gauge, and a Case Master. They're all good. And I have tried the same peice of brass, using the same dial indicator, with all three gauges with pretty consistent readings. Buy the one you like. Casey
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively...
Having said that, MAGA.
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,335
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,335 |
For the guys that have the concentricity gauges how much difference have you seen pre-gauge vs post gauge?
Also, were you making mostly straight ammo to begin with?
no..it wasnt uncommon to see .009 or more at random. my goal for most loads now is .003 or less. with conventional dies,sizing UP over the expander instead of pulling it down over it will yield the biggest improvent.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,914
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,914 |
I received my gauge today, talk about an eye opener.
When I die I hope I don't start voting democrat.
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927 |
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,914
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,914 |
Well, as I posted earlier about the .223 and the 75gr BTHP beating up on me I ran some loaded rounds over the gauge. I would think that since I have runout from .005 - .013 with most being .009 and up that would be a contributing factor. I used the flat steel to square some stuff up trick and I had runout from .002 to .004 after that.
I checked the ammo for my rifles that always seen to shoot great, runout was under .005 the 2 rifles that I have been fighting for 2 weeks now had runout on probably 95% of the loaded ammo over .008 and up to .014"
So yeah, you could say interesting.
When I die I hope I don't start voting democrat.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,604
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,604 |
I've used RCBS for about 20 years. A few years ago I started also using Lee collet neck-sizers. I use Lapua brass. Every fourth firing I anneal, bump the shoulder,trim, and clean out primer pockets. I toss them at 12. ... If you are just thrwing out your brass without it having signs of excessive wear, I'd be happy to pay postage to get your next boxful shipped to me!
"Delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart." Psalm 37, verse 4.
"The lazy do not roast any game, but the diligent feed on the riches of the hunt." Proverbs 12:27
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927 |
Well, as I posted earlier about the .223 and the 75gr BTHP beating up on me I ran some loaded rounds over the gauge. I would think that since I have runout from .005 - .013 with most being .009 and up that would be a contributing factor. I used the flat steel to square some stuff up trick and I had runout from .002 to .004 after that.
I checked the ammo for my rifles that always seen to shoot great, runout was under .005 the 2 rifles that I have been fighting for 2 weeks now had runout on probably 95% of the loaded ammo over .008 and up to .014"
So yeah, you could say interesting. My curiousity is if run out is the reason for "2 in/1out" groups. Lets say zero run out equals bughole groups. I measured 18 rounds of ammo I loaded half assed and about 50% were ~.005. A handful were under .002 and slightly more were over.007. If I were to randomly shoot 3 shot groups I'd have a 3% chance of getting the best 3 in one string, and a 60% chance of a combination of the others (which would end up as 2 together, 1 out) and a 25% chance at hitting the median, essentially a larger but equal "group" .........aaaand I've gone cross-eyed. This is mathman's territory.
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