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gmoats Offline OP
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……I've got too much time on my hands while we're waiting for Spring to start construction on our home so I thought I'd stir the ashes here at the campfire---there's been way too little dispute to keep things interesting!!!

…..Other than the frivolity of having something "different" that's fun to shoot, I for the life of me can't figure out why anyone would want:

1. a 3" barreled J-frame…..hey, it's a "POCKET PISTOL"----unless you work for Barnum and Bailey or are Capt. Kangaroo, you don't have pockets adequate for the job. Shoving a 3" J-frame in the front pocket of your Wranglers is going to be like Andre the Giant and Mary Lou Retton on their wedding night (I apologize for that mental image). Ok, maybe one in .22 for a bird hunter to dispatch a skunk or porcupine that gets too close to his bird dog……J-frames for self defense should have barrels less than 2"--anything else, I just don't get it.

2. a 5 shot .44 magnum in a steel-L-frame with a barrel in excess of 4". Giving up a round in the cylinder to gain a frame size reduction that is irrelevant for concealed carry seems irrational, plus the 4 1/4" barrel seems to negate the CC intent (who uses this gun for CC anyway?). Had they made it with a Scandium frame and shorter barrel, I'd get it. There are lighter and shorter barreled N-frames which would be desirable if packing it for a trail gun, in which case an extra round in the cylinder might be a good thing. There are a number of 'smiths that can easily modify an N-frame to accept K/L frame grips if you want your wife or child to shoot the gun. If you're committed to the cartridge and just want to plink with it, there are heavier .44's that will be much more pleasant to shoot. I just don't get it.

3. The almost religious-zealotry that accompanies the 10mm. It was the darling of Jeff Cooper and since I loved Jeff and couldn't find, nor afford a Bren 10, when Colt came out with the Delta Elite I got one of the very first ones----it was un-pleasant to shoot in IPSC events. It's efficacy over the .45 ACP for defensive stopping power is irrelevant in any practical sense. I get that someone may want to hunt with a handgun and it's ballistically a semi-auto .41 magnum. So why not just go with a .41 magnum or better yet a .454 Casull or .44 Mag. (I understand that Smith is making a crackerjack new L-frame in that caliber.) With cheaper, more effective and more readily available cartridges, when it comes to the 10mm, I don't get it.

4. The excitement over .17 caliber varmint cartridges…….I'm a moderately committed prairie dog shooter; to the point that it was at least a partial criteria in our decision to retire to Wyoming. I understand the thrill of observing rather obtuse terminal ballistics, i.e. seeing how high, far or violently you can flip a p-dog off a mound. Were the cartridges less expensive in proportion to their smaller size, I'd understand, but the opposite seems to be true. While they may perform with spectacular results in ideal circumstances, they don't seem to do anything that other (larger, heavier) cartridges don't seem to do better and cheaper. I don't get it.

If I've gored your ox or beaten your sacred cow, this was all meant in good humor…..feel free to flame me….or at least enlighten me….there's so much that I just don't get.

Hopefully they'll be able to start excavation for our house and shooting berms with the first thaw and I won't have so much free time on my hands in the near future!! :-)

Last edited by gmoats; 02/20/15.

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I like 3" J-frames - the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. I've never been a pants pocket carry guy so that angle doesn't matter.

The rest of your list I agree with.


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The .17 Remington is the finest varmint round ever.



Travis


Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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gmoats Offline OP
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Originally Posted by deflave
The .17 Remington is the finest varmint round ever.



Travis

…well, that beats "GFY" (which I would have understood)----not sure what makes the .17 Rem. the "finest," Travis.


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gmoats Offline OP
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Originally Posted by JOG
I like 3" J-frames - the whole is greater than the sum of its parts...


….while I appreciate the zen-nature of your answer, I don't get the "why"?


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Originally Posted by gmoats
Originally Posted by deflave
The .17 Remington is the finest varmint round ever.



Travis

…well, that beats "GFY" (which I would have understood)----not sure what makes the .17 Rem. the "finest," Travis.


Lazer like trajectory. Zero recoil. Low on powder consumption. Zero fur damage.

That, and I said so.

GFY.



Travis


Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Lack on controversey?


It's been to quiet?



You havent read the uber 1911+ accessories CCW holster thread


The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude


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Your gun sucks. And you're holding it wrong.


Originally Posted by SBTCO
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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gmoats Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
Your gun sucks. And you're holding it wrong.

…..yea, I get that a lot……..
Doc says that you're a heck of a 3-gun shooter…..consider coming to Hornady's Zombie in Heartland shoot this year (http://www.zombiesintheheartland.com)…..it's a heck of a lot of fun…..I'll buy the first round.


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The reason a S&W J-Frame revolver with a 3" barrel is considered a pocket pistol
is because it's often hard to find holsters for them.
Everyone makes leather for 2 1/8" snubbies but few build them for 3" versions.

A S&W J-Frame revolver with a 3" barrel - makes a perfect Kit Gun.

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Everything you just said was wrong, and you suck. How's that for controversy?

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Well, I surely have no quarrels with 1,2, & 3 & actually, agree pretty wholeheartedly, but the Hornady 17 is a good 200 yard round if if you need a 200 yard gun.

MM

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The 17 HMR is a serviceable 200yd gun. Barely.



Travis


Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Originally Posted by JOG
I like 3" J-frames - the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. I've never been a pants pocket carry guy so that angle doesn't matter.

The rest of your list I agree with.
I just bought a 4" barrel that I'm going to cut down to 3" to go on my Colt's Cobra. 3" just seems so right for a .38 Special.

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There is self defense other than the 2 legged kid and I've never found a 3" barreled gun that was harder to shoot well then a 1 7/8" barrel.


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3" J is a great, super compact field gun with real, adjustable sights. Although I don't get along well with J frame grips, I can see the appeal.

The 10mm is a great auto round for those that want go pack an auto. It does everything the .357 does but does it in an auto platform with twice to three times the ammo. What's not to like about that?

Any revolver with a barrel longer than 4" isn't a CC piece. That being said, if you like it why not get an L with a long barrel? Since when is the 6th shot all that important anyway?


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Originally Posted by MontanaMan
Well, I surely have no quarrels with 1,2, & 3 & actually, agree pretty wholeheartedly, but the Hornady 17 is a good 200 yard round if if you need a 200 yard gun.

MM


Gmoats is one of most decent and knowledgeable guys around here, so this is what you get when a nice guy tries to create a controversy: A non-controversy. smirk


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gmoats Offline OP
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Originally Posted by JOG
...Gmoats is one of most decent and knowledgeable guys around here, so this is what you get when a nice guy tries to create a controversy: A non-controversy. smirk

….boy, do I have you fooled!!……but thanks…...


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gmoats Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Steelhead
There is self defense other than the 2 legged kid and I've never found a 3" barreled gun that was harder to shoot well then a 1 7/8" barrel.

…I understand the argument about shoot ability, but that's is why God made K,L & N framed guns in calibers suitable for critter-shootin'……why the need for a J frame for defense against 4 legged adversaries?


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gmoats Offline OP
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Originally Posted by K1500
3" J is a great, super compact field gun with real, adjustable sights. Although I don't get along well with J frame grips, I can see the appeal.
JMO, but a 2 1/2" model 66/19 would be superior in every way to ANY J frame in ANY barrel length for a "super compact field gun with real, adjustable sights."
Quote

The 10mm is a great auto round for those that want go pack an auto. It does everything the .357 does but does it in an auto platform with twice to three times the ammo. What's not to like about that?
recoil, price, availability….for an anti-personnel gun, I see wanting a semi-auto, in which case the .45 ACP does everything at a practical level that the 10 will, only be more controllable, more available and cheaper. For hunting, why not just use a revolver with a superior cartridge?
Quote

Any revolver with a barrel longer than 4" isn't a CC piece. That being said, if you like it why not get an L with a long barrel? Since when is the 6th shot all that important anyway?

ok, I got nothing……..I'm arguing for sake of argument, anyway :-)


The blindness from subjectivity is indistinguishable from the darkness of ignorance.
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